Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! - Touchy Subjects
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Hardgear
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http://www.losethegame.com/ Don't think about it too hard, you might pull something. I know I sure did trying to figure out how/why this thing took off like it did. |
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Kenotic
 Posts: 167 |
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I'm assuming that it's this stupid meme (pardon the redundancy) And ditto the "fandom" remarks. It may surprise some people, but most fans of a show/band/novel/turnip variety aren't one huge collective, annoyingly opinionated, mind. As for what to do about the young twerps vs. old codgers problem: I'm never sure. I've been to exactly one thing that could even considered close to a con (MCAD's Schoolgirls and Mobilesuits), and everyone appeared to be college age or older. Maybe that's a good idea: stuff the weekend with so much academic and art-oriented material that the crowds eventually separate into those who love the anime and those who love to run around spouting memes and annoying people. |
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abunai
Old Regular
 Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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Out of line, kid. Sure, it's annoying when people project their own morality as something "everybody agrees" upon, even when that is patently untrue. But hey, that's Brian's privilege. He's allowed to say annoying things, even things you find stupid. It's called freedom of speech and thought, and you have the same privilege. But while you say things in this forum, you will stick by the rules that tell you to be polite and reasonable -- and that means you don't tell people to "shut the hell up", is that clear? - abunai |
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Kiyoko
 Posts: 131 Location: Pennsylvania |
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Regarding the question about the anime conventions.
I've been going to cons for over 10 years. My "Main" convention has always been AnimeNEXT, as it's the closest and easiest to get to. I agree that AnimeNEXT has gone down hill. (I can't say the same for Otakon, I've never attended it.) I don't mind people dressing up as non-anime/game characters (Some of them are actually really nicely done!) but as the person mentioned.. it's the Ravers I'm sick and tired of. I seriously think AnimeNEXT should dump the dance/rave. I've met a lot of teenage people who say they attend the con not for anime, but just for the rave itself, and as a chance to act like a wild monkey with no adult supervision. Over many years of attending I've noticed it's the Rave crowd that runs up and down the hotel hallways at 3-4am in the morning screaming. They're usually the ones destroying hotel/con-center property and trashing the place. On the other side of the coin, I've attended Anime Weekend Atlanta for a few years, and they do not have a Rave-type dance, only a formal ball. I've never seen the attendees running around acting like monkeys on crack. I've seen little to no destruction of property, and the majority of con-goers clean up their trash on the lawns surrounding the area. The attendees are very well behaved, friendly and it's honestly one of my favorite cons I've ever been to. Maybe it could also be a NY/NJ thing. =/ |
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Crisha
Moderator
 Posts: 4290 |
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As for "The Game" (noooooo, I lost!) and other silly memes, I don't know, it's one of those goofy, stupid little things that's only fun if you're surrounded by goofy people who don't mind acting like dorks.
I actually first found out about it about 2 years ago hanging out with some friends. One of 'em shouted out, "I LOST THE GAME!", and everyone else was like, "NOOOOOOO, I LOST AS WELL!" It's amusing, especially when you have a friend like Pearl, who plays the dramatic card really well (imagine a girl falling to her knees, stretching her arms to the sky, a look of unspeakable horror on her face as she cries a "NOOOOOOOOOOO!" that would put Darth Vader to shame). I can see where it'd get annoying though. If you're not a part of the dorky, mindless fun, then you're gonna get annoyed with it. I've had my share of other memes that I've rolled my eyes over. And anything overdone eventually gets tiresome. I also still enjoy cons a lot. I'm on the cusp of the age range (currently 24), but I haven't tired of them yet. I guess it's because con-going is still only a recent experience for me, my first being 2007. I'll probably eventually get tired of it, but for right now there are still many good times to be had with AMV screenings, dealers rooms, panels (especially for older shows - LotGH FTW!), and taking pictures of awesome cosplayers. I just normally ignore the things that I don't care for but have come to expect from cons (the funk, the raves, the annoying brats that shove in hallways, random sleepers, etc). EDIT: Yeah, the ravers can get annoying. But that also applies to any group of people who rile each other up and are usually running on sugar (and/or alcohol) and run low on sleep. The Yaoi panel at Ohayocon this year got a little loud and out of hand as well. And as for alcohol, having a con at a convention center attached to a hotel with a little bar on the second floor (Ohayocon) is like asking for trouble. My friend's sister (who's around 22) came along with us to the con, had one too many drinks, and then we were awake until the wee morning hours trying to get her to come back to the room with us instead of running off and sleeping with strangers (her entire family is in the military, and she has the strength to take on several grown men... try imagining a group of wimpy girls stopping her from jumping on random guys... yeah, not fun). It was a tiring evening, and it pisses me off how irresponsible she was. |
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cherrywolfchan
 Posts: 9 |
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The Game meme died for me at Anime Central this year. It was everywhere and it got so redundant. I can understand doing it every now and again, but when the programming even encourages it, it gets old. Just like RickRoll did at the previous ACen I went to.
But I can relate to this person. I've been going to anime conventions for eight years now. I still love going, but the idiocy of some con-goers is quite unsavory. I don't mind some stupidity to be had. Hell, I sing along with people during a good Anime Hell showing of Rejected, so I'm not saying I'm anymore mature than others. But some people really need to learn the difference between silly and annoying. Yes, you can squeal 'I LOST THE GAME' but don't drag it into the ground and beat it with a stick. That's what happened at ACen and at first I was laughing and going 'AAAW!!' but by the end of the convention I was ready to pummel the next person who said it. As for the dances, I've never been. But I find nothing wrong with the dances. Sure, things gone that probably shouldn't, but it appeals to wider audience. Most people who go to anime conventions all love anime, but some of them aren't hardcore into it enough to enjoy most, if any, of the panels. So for an activity for them would be a dance. So all in all, I don't want the young fans to leave, I want people to keep going to anime conventions, it's a fun time. But I really, really wish people would actually... I don't know, use their brain when at an anime convention. Cause, yeah... I'm tired of having to evacuate the hotel due to some idiot pulling the fire alarm, I'm tired of seeing an ambulance every day because some thought they didn't need their insulin for the week or OD'd on drugs, and I'm real tired of people treating the hotel like it's a jungle gym and then the price for the hotel being jacked up every year. I hope some of you younger congoers are reading this. And if you ever notice a price raise in your hotel stay, that's why. Because people can't leave stuff alone and for some reason, an anime convention is time where they think the real world rules don't apply. But guess what, some of them do. And many of the congoers I've seen should really take a step back and look at that. Other than that, I have no problem with most congoers. And I enjoy being silly with many of them :3 |
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Parsifal24
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apperntlly Seven seas didn't find enough "artistic merit" in Kdomo no Jikan when it was a Manga and it never got released. The reason so many people feel it crosses the line and makes many people uncomfortable is see the subtext as basically "oh isn't that so cute and Moe Rin's trying to seduce Aoki." It's more that it seems like its sexualizing children then that it seems to have no artistic merit. I know it's a work of fiction but works like this make most people uncomfortable and if you find nothing wrong with something like Kdomo no Jikan. I seriously consider looking deep inside yourself and asking why? My main problem with the series isn't the Loli fan service it's the fact that stuff like that get's labeled Moe because then I and people who like Moe. Have to end up fighting the same battles explaining why Moe isn't "plausible deniability Lolicon." |
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HaruhiToy
 Posts: 4118 |
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I didn't think it was possible, but it did manage to get one level more stupid than the old gag where you hand someone a piece of paper that has "How To Keep An Idiot Busy (see reverse side)" printed on both sides. What would we do without the web. |
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Greggo
 Posts: 35 Location: Charlotte, NC |
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One of these days I'm going to host a game show at a convention simply called "The Game."
And someone will definitely win. And then "The Game" will be over. |
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darkchibi07
 Posts: 5471 |
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Now when the Answerman mentioned how yuri tend to skew towards to the older male audience, is he referring to those men who GENUINELY like yuri or just wants to see to two girls getting on each other but still wants them to be straight?
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Anime World Order
 Posts: 389 Location: Florida |
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The problem is not with Otakon, which is one of the biggest anime conventions there is. A convention that size is able to have a variety of programming for all types of fans, young and old alike, because there are multiple rooms available and tens of thousands of people in attendance such that even if only 1% of the con population cares about a given topic, that still means 300-400 people show up for panels, even the one I helped do! (This makes the fact that only 20-50 or so people show up for their Japanese guests that much more debilitating.) No, the ACTUAL problem is how this trend affects smaller conventions: the anime cons that are say, 5000 people or less (sometimes much less). At this small to mid-sized anime convention level, that 1% figure becomes too small to justify having the programming in the first place, so those "actual panels and anime-related events" aren't even on the schedule at all. You'll still see "convention culture" programming like cosplay (plus related pursuits), AMVs, meta-topics, and the like but the actual straight-up anime presentation or discussion ones like "let's watch a bunch of opening credits sequences," "an introduction to [genre]," "here are examples of anime you should go out and watch" etc either will not exist or will be very few in number. Maybe there'll be just one or two such things all weekend. Maybe. At small cons, the actual anime stuff goes away in favor of "related to anime/East Asian culture...maybe" things as a result of what the person sending in his letter was lamenting. Those smaller events, not the Anime Expos/Norths of the world, are the "front lines" where corrective action needs to take place. On that note, I'm off to this one right now to help out on panels explaining who Carl Macek was, what the words "anime" and "manga" actually mean--if you think everyone just knows this, then you are sadly, sadly mistaken--and talk about robots. Because you know something? If people like us don't do the basic, basic stuff at the smaller cons...nobody else will. And right now? Not enough people are. How the growing emphasis on Internet culture/behavior affects the top 10 attended anime cons is certainly a large concern. But those cons are big enough that even with 3000 people chomping at the bit for the burlesque show, there is still a full weekend schedule for the "old-timers" like myself (at 30, I'm too old to just walk up and hang out with teenagers, but too young to truly be "old"). In those scenarios, they got their stuff to do, I got my stuff to do, and everybody is at least happy they're at the show. I don't know how to make people actually care about stuff I like when they currently do not. But the least I can do is make the option available, because right now it isn't on the menu unless you can make it out to Baltimore, Los Angeles, Boston, Toronto, Atlanta, etc. Speaking of Atlanta...
I've been going to AWA for 12 (?) years now, and it's probably my favorite convention. The formal ball you speak of is Friday night, but Saturday night there is a "dance" that's basically like the Otakon one. Many con organizers shy away from the term "rave" as the term is often associated with drug use, but that's what these events effectively are. People show up in decidedly non-anime like attire with glowsticks and listen to electronic music as they jump around. The objective of these events is to gather as many of the potential troublemakers as possible in one place to have them expend energy such that they DON'T run around late at night destroying property. Maybe you can sell them bottled water and glowsticks or whatever while you're at it. Here's the "problem" (quotes used because to event organizers, tickets sold are tickets sold and lack of property destruction is in fact a "solution"). There's a TON of people who show up to a convention just for the rave/dance that don't much care for anime or what have you. This crowd is actually...a whole lot of people. One year AWA experimented with holding the dance/rave at an offsite location such that there was no such event at the con itself. As far as I can tell the world did not end that year and the people who wanted to attend that activity simply went to where it was being held, but I don't think they since repeated it. Perhaps it didn't work out? Regardless, I would like to see more conventions try this out, but it depends on whether or not there are nearby facilities that permit people under 18/21. Many places do not. So even if I don't like it, these things have to remain at the convention. As long as they corral them somewhere out of the way, I can deal with it. |
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HaruhiToy
Posts: 4118 |
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I think Answerman's answer is about as good as can be crafted, but I would like to add a comment/question on the topic. Does anyone besides me suspect that a big percentage, perhaps a majority, of those people loudly condemning and professing disgust at works depicting these themes are actually trying to mask their attraction to it? Often you get long threads (not here hopefully) full of "Ick" and "Squick" emotions and violent proclamations about what they would do to pedophiles if they had a chance. The more it goes on the more I perceive that what they are trying to do is convince everyone -- perhaps even themselves -- that they don't have feelings like that when in fact they do. Disclaimer: none of this is to say that there can't be any genuine objection. This is in reference to over-the-top reaction and I don't see much of that here at ANN which is why I chose to post my observation here. But just page through other forums and you will see what I mean. "Jealousy With a Halo" -- Mark Twain. |
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CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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Silly me.
I always assumed the issue with licensing yuri was in some way associated with the licensing responses one sees here on these boards. When a yaoi license is announced, there's the usual hater whining post, but otherwise it's "I saw the scan & am buying this!", "I love [manga artist]'s work! I will definitely buy this" or "I loved the manga. I'm buying this dvd!" When a yuri license is announced it's "Nothing special" "If this were XXX, but I'm not interested in this title" and the ever popular "no dub, no sale!" (dubbed yaoi is almost non-existant. We usually want to hear the Japanese VA anyway) I really do not see the support amongst the yuri fans that I see from yaoi fans so it's their own fault. If you have even some interest, BUY THE STUPID THING! If the company sells one title, they'll license the next, but when you all play picky picky, the companies see it as there's no audience. I really do not know all that many teen yaoi readers. I know of lots & lots of 20-somethings & up. THe owner of the shop in the Valley said he loves yaoi because the gals come in the day it's released & buy it. They don't stand in the store reading it or even making up their mind because that is what they came for. We support the companies that bring us our yaoi. We support the artists that make it. Most of the scan sites for yaoi take the scans down as soon as the title is licensed, even if it never sees print. Most of the yuri fans I see posting don't seem willing to do this. Frankly, they seem too particular, wanting it a certain way rather than just being grateful to get a licensed copy in their hands. I really dislike reading stuff online, but I will have to because it's obvious digital delivery is the way things are going & I'm willing to go that far-to read yaoi on my computer-to see these stories & to support the people bringing it to us. Last edited by CCSYueh on Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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vashfanatic
 Posts: 3490 Location: Back stateside |
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I'm going to rephrase that to get what I think you're talking about, and please correct me if I'm wrong: you're making the distinction between manga/anime that attempts to depict the emotional struggles of sexual identity and same-sex love vs manga/anime that is just two girls screwing, no interest in actual lesbianism. To which I would refer you to a bit in Honey & Honey (an autobiographical work that I totally recommend reading) about the relative sizes of sections at Japanese bookstores. In it, Sachiko and her girlfriend Masako discover "row upon row" of yaoi/BL manga. They note that most of the writers are women, as are most of the readers. They then find a very tiny section of yuri (in the true romance sense), utterly dwarfed by the yaoi/BL. They're uncertain about the audience for it, but note that no men seem to be writing it... until Masako finds the MASSIVE section of hardcore pornographic titles. So I think that, yes, there is a bit of a distinction. There's a very small market for same-sex romances with women, and the audience for these is pretty mixed or even dominantly female. But the porn? All male, all 18+, and a whole lot of it. And if the market in Japan is small for the "real" yuri (i.e. not porn) just think how tiny it must be in America, where depictions of same-sex romances are still way more controversial. I'm the rare straight female fan of many a yuri series and would love to see more brought over to America (starting with Octave and Ebine Yamaji's work), but I know it's not happening, at least not any time soon. 
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Unholy_Nny
 Posts: 622 |
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Ick. I knew about the doujin thing but I was blissfully living in ignorance telling myself "Not all doujinshi is porn." Now the ignorance is shattered. I am slightly depressed. Oh well. At least Brian didn't claim that the show's target audience was pedophiles and us Westerners are weird for finding genuine quality in a weird Japanese pedophile show. |
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