Forum - View topicANNCast - Royal Podcast Force: The Carl of Hornneamise
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Angel M Cazares
 Posts: 5454 Location: Iscandar |
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Thanks for this great ANNCast episode. Fascinating and very informative stuff from Carl. And I will be sure to checkout the Honneamise zine.
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TheAncientOne
 Posts: 1875 Location: USA (mid-south) |
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For London and Dresden, the death toll on the ground would be from bombers (and later V-1's and V-2's for London), not fighter planes. Even if you counted every death during war as an atrocity, fighter planes still wouldn't be high on the list of atrocities in WW2. |
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GATSU
Posts: 15367 |
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Ancient: I guess...
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koinosuke
 Posts: 273 Location: Fukushima, Japan |
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I'll admit this was my first time listening to the ANNCast, and I have to say I'm very glad I gave it a listen. The section regarding The Wind Rises was especially fascinating. I can't wait to finally see the movie on friday.
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Martin G.
Posts: 26 Location: Germany |
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ZERO DARK THIRTY is a highly controversial movie that was discussed and argued over in the movie community as well as in the political arena. I don't know where you got the feeling that this movie was unanimously supported and praised. And the RAMBO-trilogy, especially Part 2 and 3, was also heavily criticised for its historical white washing. More important, these movies were clear escapist action movies where big explosions and impressive gunfire was much more important than the story. However, THE WIND RISES is the final movie of a respected artist, an at least formerly outspoken pacifist, who made a movie about a real person whose responsibilities he tries to hide behind a fictional story. And when you see this kind of sugar coating in context to the historical revisionism that goes on and on in Japan and the fact that much more people will be "informed and educated" about the character by this movie than by history books or biographies, perhaps then you see the problem with this movie. |
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GATSU
Posts: 15367 |
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Martin:
It wasn't unanimously praised, but there were enough people on its side.
When?
So The Wind Rises can't be escapist?
So Pocahontas wasn't a real person?
The same can be said about most of our depictions of rich white slave owners who were glorified as "heroes" and/or "founders"-or "explorers"-of our country. Or maybe I can go into how people still defend Leni Riefenstahl as an "artist", and how almost no one blinked when she was honored by the Academy.
It's not Miyazaki's job to be an educator, and he already spoke out against the war and comfort women. Nor does the movie glorify the lead or the Japanese government. They are both losers in the end. In fact, Miyazaki's portrayal of Japanese military leaders is just one step away from resembling those racist propaganda cartoons we used to produce for the war. In other words, there is nothing glamorous about the film, other than Jiro's ideals which don't mesh with reality-which sums up most people's lives in general. |
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Martin G.
Posts: 26 Location: Germany |
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In the 80s when the movies were released. And I don't think the opinion of these movies has changed that much, but they are now quite old and people don't discuss them with the same gusto as the did then or as they do with THE WIND RISES.
Of course it can, but people seem to expect a bit more from Miyazaki. And I guess Miyazaki didn't make the film just for pure entertainment value.
Yes, she is or was and the Disney-movie was rightly criticised for the historical inaccuracies.
I don't think the people who criticise Miyazaki for his revisionist take on a historical figure are the same who defend Riefenstahl or the euphemistic depiction of slave holders in american movies. So your points are valid and I stand behind them as much as I do with my opinion about Miyazaki's historical revisionism.
That's all nice and okay but he doesn't include these things into his rather cozy film about a man who just build the tools for a war of aggression. |
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EricJ2
 Posts: 4016 |
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At twelve, she didn't have Disney's curves. More the pity. 
I didn't expect Miyazaki to specifically take on the War at all, apart from some vague "Kids don't remember the old days" cultural nationalism of nostalgia--He's already done the leftwing peacenik "War itself is bad for wolves, bugs, European towns and other living things" abstract sentiment SO many times, I just took it as the Big Ending-Film wrap-up of every other idea he'd made in better films. (Even just looking at the preview, I thought "So Satsuki's dad marries Osono the baker's wife, and builds his plane in Piccolo's barn while Porco flies with the Ghost Squadron overhead...") If he hadn't announced it as his last, and died unexpectedly without finishing it, we'd just take it as "bad luck" that he was working on this one, thinking "well, at least he was still on his theme", and wondering whether he would have ever had a better movie to wrap things up with. |
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GATSU
Posts: 15367 |
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Martin:
I lived in the 80s, and I don't remember anyone saying Rambo whitewashed the Vietnam War.
Yes, but not as much.
You'd be surprised.
You obviously ignored my prior comment, so I'll emphasize it again: It's not Miyazaki's job to be an educator. And the same Asian groups which complain about Japan seem to conveniently ignore the whitewashing done by the Chinese and Korean governments in the face of their own human rights abuses. |
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Martin G.
Posts: 26 Location: Germany |
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It may not be Miyazaki's job to educate, but that doesn't mean he can misinform and get away with it uncriticised. At least not im my opinion. And what's with your continuing juxtaposing of different wrongs? Just because the chinese gvt isn't democratic and regularly violates human rights it's okay for the Japanese to white wash their history? And please stop insinuating that critics of the movie are somehow pro-Riefenstahl, pro-Rambo, pro-Commie-China and slaver-loving pro-Kim-agitators. |
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GATSU
Posts: 15367 |
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Martin: As I said before, he is not misinforming anyone. There is no positive spin on the war or Japan's role in it.
Well, let's just say China should be compensating its own people for what happened under Mao and at Tiananmen Square before complaining to Japan.
I didn't say they all are, but that they're a lot more lenient towards those examples than The Wind Rises. |
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arromdee
Posts: 71 |
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Don't say that he's hypocritical,
Say rather that he's apolitical. "Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down? That's not my department," says Wernher von Braun. Some have harsh words for this man of renown, But some think our attitude Should be one of gratitude, Like the widows and cripples in old London town Who owe their large pensions to Wernher von Braun. |
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Jafwasw
Posts: 13 |
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Longtime lurker/anime fan, first time poster. (Also a longtime aviation otaku)
First off excellent podcast, one small critique, I think it would perhaps have been wise to split the podcast into two separate ones. Also I don't agree with the characterising of dedicated professionals as otakus, there is normally a big difference between the passion towards a chosen vocation and dedication to a passionate interest. It would be like describing a dedicated priest as a religious otaku. I've not heard any of Carl's previous talks (I think I've read some of his essays though) after this one I can see why he is so respected. I haven't seen The Wind Rises as yet (it hasn't come out in Australia yet). but from what I've read about it I'm reminded of a very old Film that has largely been forgotten outside aviation circles. It is a partially fictionalised account of R J Mitchell, a contemporary of Jiro Horikosh, and is called First of the Few (or Spitfire in the States). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_First_of_the_Few I can't help wondering if Miyazaki may have seen or heard of this film, particulary with his well known love of the 1920ies romantic period of Aviation. (he certainly would know of Mitchell) The contrast is that First of the Few was a film written during WW2 by one of the victors whereas The Wind Rises is made Decades later by the losing side. With Japan's uncomfortable relationship with it's WW2 history, and the fictionalising /romatisising of the subject matter it is perhaps inevitable that there would be controversy. I don't think that this justifies villifying the designer. History is written by the victors, heros and villians are chosen by the winners. The truth is war is a dirty business where neither side is pure white. I will no doubt modify/revise my thoughts when I do get a chance to see The Wind Rises. |
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noigeL
Posts: 149 |
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A lot of people seem apprehensive to call out Anno's performance for what it is; the weakest point of the production. Whatever the man has gone through in his real life, he's just not an actor and was unable to properly emote as Jiro, not to mention the disconnect in hearing a 50-year-old's smokey voice coming out of a 20-30 young-looking Miyazaki character. |
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GATSU
Posts: 15367 |
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noigel:
You're missing the point. Jiro's not supposed to be an emotionally expressive character. He's reserved by nature.
There are plenty of dudes who sound older than they should. Not everyone can come off like a teenager like Leo. |
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