Forum - View topicINTEREST: Vice Cancels YaoiCon Filming After Attendee Complaints
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DJStarstryker
Posts: 140 |
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Well, about the privacy thing... In the era of live streaming and YouTube, you don't get that at cons anyway. I went to Anime Weekend Atlanta last weekend and the number of people carrying about cameras, either live streaming or recording for later YouTube use, was astounding. I tried very hard to avoid the cameras, but it was pretty much impossible.
Film crews at least tend to be easier to avoid than random Joe Schmoe with his small cell phone/GoPro/etc. Film crews have bigger equipment that's easier to spot. The random streamer/vlogger you don't notice until last second, if you notice them at all because your attention is elsewhere. |
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ajr
Posts: 465 |
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I don't read much/any yaoi, so it's not like I have a horse in this race, but a convention doesn't seem like the place to be if you're concerned about being associated with a particular hobby. I'm not familiar with how Vice Media documentaries tend to treat their subject material, but, if they were planning to cover it respectfully, this seems like a wasted opportunity for fans to promote their interest.
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Stuart Smith
Posts: 1298 |
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In California it's perfectly legal to photograph people in public areas and spaces. It's only illegal if its an area someone has an expectance of privacy, like a bathroom or changing room. -Stuart Smith |
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crosswithyou
Posts: 2892 Location: California |
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I read the Facebook comments the other day and was curious why the staff kept saying that they weren't notified about Vice's filming until that day, ie. they didn't have a chance to say no before the announcement. Obviously someone high up on the chain of command (who thought this was a good idea) had to give Vice the OK in the first place though, right? I mean, I assume Vice couldn't just say, "Hey, we're stopping by your con to film," without first getting permission from the con organizer.
So while I don't doubt that the staff responding on FB may not have known ahead of time about the announcement, I question the usage of that as an excuse to offer attendees. |
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LadyKuzunoha
Posts: 91 Location: United States |
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This is true, but Joe Schmoe's videos also don't usually garner as much online attention as Vice videos do. If you make an uncredited cameo in Joe Schmoe's video, the chance that you'll be seen and recognized in said video is much less than if that video were made by Vice. |
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Samiamiam
Posts: 227 |
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Do you honestly not see the difference in being in someones blog and being on a documentary thats going to be seen by potentionally hundreds of thousands of people? |
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hinugundam
Posts: 57 Location: USA |
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I don't think that I've ever been to an anime convention without some media coverage. Usually local news are out photographing or even filming outside the convention or even in the entrance to the convention. Heck, one time they were filming for a cosplay reality show at an anime matsuri. I guess I'm saying it seems normal to me to see cameras at a convention.
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CCTakato
Posts: 514 |
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I think whether or not Vice's actions are legal is irrelevant to whether or not their actions are moral. I mean, if you want to be technical about the law, outing someone isn't a crime at all even without photographs but I think most decent people would consider it to be a terrible thing to do. The notion that Vice's actions should be defended because they weren't breaking any laws is poor reasoning that doesn't make much sense to me.
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katscradle
Posts: 469 |
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DMI issued an apology yesterday.
https://twitter.com/yaoicon/status/916047296734703616 Not really sure why people are focusing on legality so much either. YaoiCon is also a badge restricted 18+ Con (though minors have been allowed with chaperones) that takes place at a hotel, which last time I checked hotels are private property and ballrooms were considered rented private spaces too. Good professional outlets know not only they may need permits and releases for the location but, also to apply for credentials and meet requirements of the organization involved. The US is a litigious society remember. So even when you are within the law it can still be troublesome to defend yourself. Regardless it feels like what is legal, moral, and ethical are getting conflated. The other facet of this beyond the privacy concerns was the utter lack of planning and information from the con. If there had been a clear policy in place some attendees would not have been so concerned and outraged. Staff for YaoiCon had it sprung on them on Monday and then had to try and deal with the situation, a response which was in no way coordinated. The only people responding to concerned attendees and artists had no idea what exactly Vice’s plans were or, how they were handling consent forms etc. Apparently the Artists Alley head had to draft up a form on their own for the artists. Staff was originally going to wait until today (Friday) to get details too since that’s when Vice would be there, until people pointed out that was way too late because of their travel arrangements and reservations. Some people canceled before the announcement that Vice pulled out because there wasn’t even enough time to wait long to cancel reservations and not incur fees. The answers people kept getting were “avoid the cameras”. Then it’s up to the “the powers that be”. The DMI representative was en route to the con so their response was slower than Vice felt like at best a bad coincidence. Were they flying and had their phone off for about an hour? Otherwise you should have your phone on and hands free mode while driving. Being unavailable for something like 6 hours the week of a major event when that can be avoided would be unacceptable in many industries. People lose their jobs over things like this. I just hope this incident doesn’t leave a lasting negative effect on the BL and YaoiCon community. This week was already bad for other reasons but, I’ve since had to listen to people saying homophobic stuff like “the gays are so dramatic, they ruin everything,” and see fans that were fine with the filming attacking others who were concerned, acting like those objecting made the community toxic. Yeah, people worried about their safety and livelihood are what make the BL community toxic. |
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Lord Oink
Posts: 876 |
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Moral is subjective, legality isn't. |
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CCTakato
Posts: 514 |
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Ushio
Posts: 630 |
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You don't need consent. Plus it's not like there won't be plenty of people filming and putting it up on youtube anyway, not to mention the security camera's. This is legal https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/04/for-arts-sake-photoing-neighbors-with-zoom-lens-not-a-privacy-invasion/ |
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Polycell
Posts: 4623 |
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That case doesn't even begin to apply: it's both about the laws of another state and, as quoted, wouldn't protect a commercial production.
What matters is what California law says about the power of owners/lessees to grant an expectation of privacy to people in an area where it's not automatically assumed. The code of conduct certainly seems to imply they mean to exercise that power if they have it(that it's controlled entry would bolster the case, to the best of my legal knowledge). |
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Kadmos1
Posts: 13572 Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP |
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I don't care how progressive someone might be, I think you should be at least 15 to be even allowed to be with an adult at such events. |
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DeeeFoo
Posts: 8 |
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I agree. I see cameras all the time at Anime Expo, and don't think anything of it. It's totally normal to see mass media coverage at such a huge event. Nobody else there seems to mind either, given the amount of cameras and news crews present. |
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