Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! [2007-06-22]
|
Goto page Previous Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
ichiro3923
 Posts: 167 Location: hiding in your closet watching you |
|
|||
I understand what you're saying. There are alot of posts (especially in youttube) where there are ignorant portrayals of Christians. One of the most insulting thing is when there are news regarding Christian extremists, and then people just blast away that all Christians are scum. First, not all Christians have extreme views and believe in the bible literally. There are differents sects of Christianity: Catholic, Evangelical, Protestant, Orthodox, etc. But some just group us all together thinking people share these extremists, intolerant views. I'm not saying that everyone should be knowledgable about one's religion, just don't make these misconceptions, the way anime fans hate to be thought of as lolicon fans. |
||||
|
||||
HitokiriShadow
 Posts: 6251 |
|
|||
This reminded me of a particular line in Kodocha in which a particular character can't remember which denomination of Christianity she was. She said something along the lines of "I think I'm Catholic... or was it Buddhist? Oh, I don't really remember..." I'm a Christian myself (and a rather conservative one at that) but I portrayal's of Christianity in fiction almost never bother me. Heck, I just finished Angel Sanctuary (the manga) last week, I enjoyed it a lot. An accurate and postive view of Christianity, it is not. I don't feel like touching on the rest of the rant right now, maybe tomorrow. @The Flake: Man, that guy has Zac figured out. I get so sick of Zac constantly praising Air, Kanon and various moe shows. And he's gotta be making big bucks off all those Air ads and themes he's putting on ANN. 
Last edited by HitokiriShadow on Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:00 am; edited 1 time in total |
||||
|
||||
|
Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
|
|||
|
A lot of people believe that Christians in America have no place to complain about how they're portrayed in the media given that they are the vast, vast majority and the most vocal among them are dangerous individuals who don't respect the Constitution.
|
||||
|
||||
|
Kyokat
Posts: 50 |
|
|||
|
I think there's a big difference between appropriating mythological aspects of a culture/religion for your work of fiction and insults/racism/whatever else it's been compared to on this thread.
Unless you're prepared to say that Disney's Hercules and Marvel's Thor are also horrible insults to practitioners of those beliefs, what difference does it make? Heck, in Sailor Moon the author switched up the powers of Sailor Saturn (should have been time) and Sailor Pluto (should have been death). So she didn't research her Roman gods thoroughly. It's not a big deal. It's not like the Japanese don't randomly use their own culture for anime trappings, either. How many different incarnations have Suzaku and Seiryu had now? It's not that they're anti-Christian, it's that Christianity has a wealth of mythology to borrow and twist and make interesting stories out of. |
||||
|
||||
Jamee
 Posts: 79 Location: North Carolina |
|
|||
|
In regards to the rant: Sure it would be nice if Japanese creators did their homework and learned about the religion they are portraying, but I wouldn't hold my breathe.
Japan does not have the PC mentality we have in the US. In the US, if someone were to write a book about, say, Hinduism and just fill it with a bunch of stereotypes then people would get offend. That's because we live in a diverse culture. There is a very good chance that someone reading such a work would be a member of that religion and know better. Also, even if someone wasn't Hindu they might still get offended by a book like that, because we live in a society where tolerance and understanding are highly valued. Japan, on the other hand, is an extremely homogenus society. Almost everyone is either a Shinto or a Buddist. They chances of offending a member of some other religion are almost nil. And Japan is NOT a place where tolerance and understanding are valued; it is a place where being exactly the same as everyone else is the most important thing. As a Christian, I almost never like the portrayal of Christianity in manga, so I just avoid those titles that deal with it. This is the reason why a huge Arina Tanemura fan such as myself has not read Kamikaze Kaito Jeanne. Oh well. |
||||
|
||||
RDespair
 Posts: 244 Location: California |
|
|||
I wouldn't say that Azumanga Daioh is specifically directed to otaku audiences. Shows that are targetted at otaku generally: 1) Are about otaku (Genshiken, Welcome to the NHK, Comic Party) 2) Have jokes that tend to break the 4th wall and require extensive knowledge of other anime & manga series. Azumanga Daioh has none of these; it's just a cute and random comedy show about a bunch of high school friends. As far as anime comedy shows goes, I think it's one of the more mainstream shows out there: a great choice to show to someone who is new to anime. Heck, even my 6 year old daughter loves it. Back on topic, the rant was fun to read though I disagree with it. Yeah, if these shows were trying to be realistic, I might be annoyed by their portrayal, but this is fantasy so why care? Having religion (or certain ranking members of said religion) be evil is nothing new in fiction. |
||||
|
||||
|
Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16941 |
|
|||
It's one thing to make jokes and poke fun at a religion and another to outright insult and demean it's member. As a practicing catholic I take offense to anyone who thinks it's ok to bash Christians in what ever medium. As an individual with a brain I know that many Christian denominations are basically asking for it a lot of times. Don't get me wrong, my particular group (Catholics) have screwed the pooch many times and caused some MAJOR problems in the past. That being said, why are ALL Catholics to blame? I see comments, about members not respecting the constitution, and they irritate me. People seem content to blame the WHOLE religion/denomination for the actions of the people in charge. The dangerous individuals you speak of are the people in charge and the extremists. The vast majority of us are just your Joe Blow's going to church and trying to lead a decent life. Christians have every right, just as any other religious group would, to be upset at unfair generalizations. I bet you'd be mighty pissed if someone from say France insulted you because you're an American and all Americans are stupid because of the actions of the president. Yet it's ok for people to give the same treatment to Christians, Jews, or whoever. I'm not saying any religion is mistake free, just that its not fair to portray that whole group based on the actions of a few. The media seems to love doing this and it's not fair to any group. edit-- Just so people are clear I wasn't insulting anyone here specifically, just a mini rant of my own. Last edited by Redbeard 101 on Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
||||
|
||||
|
Merciful Evans
Posts: 18 |
|
|||
The objection to Le Chevalier has me a bit curious; is it the Psalm of the King element to the plot? I myself don't love Le Chevalier spoiler[(I just can't wrap my head around Robespierre as an occultist bishonen)], but I think that the use of the Psalm of the King is just an interpretation of a particular passage in the bible associated with alchemy in the story; at the very least, I think Le Chevalier shows a good deal more investigation into religion than most series, even if artistic liberties are taken with the material (as in all sorts of other productions, including innumerable American works). One aspect to Le Chevalier I did appreciate was the fairly unique was that both sides appeal to divine forces, as occurred in the vast majority of conflicts throughout the time period it portrays. And the villains definitely do horrible things with religious powers, but then even today we see criminals committing murder and claiming divine inspiration.
A decent argument, but while a lot of people are oppressed by Christian interests (including myself, as I don't have the right to marry my partner), prejudice against the dominant group of people in any situation of oppression is fair to protest against, I think. |
||||
|
||||
|
Kyokat
Posts: 50 |
|
|||
Are you living in the same US I am? This almost never happens. People write books all the time filled with the most offensive stereotypes imaginable, and while some people do object, it's usually in small numbers on a blog somewhere. Books are generally written for very narrow audiences, and those are usually the audiences that see them. No one complains because they're not the ones buying them. The books that do get complaints tend to be the few that are big enough to be targets: Harry Potter, The Da Vinci Code, etc. And you can see how much good complaining about those did.
Being an American means you live in America. Being a Christian means you subscribe (or at least say you subscribe) to a certain set of beliefs. Can you see where it might be more tempting to paint all members of a certain denomination with the same brush? I'm not saying it's right, but your comparison is a bit spurious. |
||||
|
||||
|
ichiro3923
Posts: 167 Location: hiding in your closet watching you |
|
|||
I understand what you mean that Christians are expected to follow set of beliefs, but: 1.It does not mean Christians can question their faith and specific beliefs, some my Catholic High School encouraged students to question their faith 2.There are news where it's focused on extremist views/beliefs, and certain people don't want the idea that all groups of Christianity will believe in this particular extremist group's set of beliefs |
||||
|
||||
|
ichiro3923
Posts: 167 Location: hiding in your closet watching you |
|
|||
Sorry about the typo, in #1, i meant "can't question their faith...." |
||||
|
||||
DemonEyesLeo
 Posts: 844 Location: Japan |
|
|||
|
That essay on the Geek Fallacies sounds interesting; I'm going to have to read it.
I laughed at your response to the Flake. |
||||
|
||||
|
ichido reichan
|
|
|||
|
aha! the rants are getting depper and deeper, well, as a free christian (I hate church politics so I don't go to church, heaven is not on earth anyway)
I tell you right away...Stay out of Japan..... Don't talk about it, don't ask about it just don't, go to Korea where everyone is christian, Ah, and Italy, the center of all holy and religious (as a pun "the Japan" of christianity, as if christianity were anime) but for japan, Christianity has as much writing value as the vikings or the greeks, is just funny stories collected to give you a hint that there is a higher power over us, but you can't see. Ofcourse you had to pick a hyperpopular show like hellsing to prove your point, by the way, have you seen "Makaitensho?" (The briefly popular "Ninja resurrection, the revenge of Jubei") Which in none of the cases a ninja resurrects and Jubei doesn't need revenge on anybody.... This title is very popular in live action films and the anime version had to be cancelled because it was too controversial(The title actually means "the rise of the demon"), but the story is that Christians were prosecuted and impaled across the war fields for being pagan, and there was a good christian leader called "Amakusa shiro Tokisada" that actually it was good and people believe in his words, but since we know that Japan twist their stories to make them be the good guy (Rape of nanking anybody?) They portrayed this Amakusa as the twist of a legend that if you kill him, he will resurrect as the devil and bring japan to a total chaos, enter the hero of the people, the champ Yagyu Jubei, the legendary punisher of evildoers, hired by the goverment, he has to fight the demon that want to destroy japan... Yeah..what a bunch of bullsh***, Amakusa wasn't like that but there goes again, religion in anime is like a box of chocolates, either you like what you pick or not. But, if you are a hardcore Christian and you want to enjoy a true "homework" of somebody that took seriously the job of portraying christianity...read JESUS by Yoshikazu Yasuhiko and you will see how wrong your words are about the depictions of christianity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amakusa_Shiro Anyway...Did you see the bible black? with that name I wouldnt touch it with a 10 ft pole.... Also, is Jesus portrayed in south park accurately? |
||||
|
RDespair
Posts: 244 Location: California |
|
|||
Still, under the umbrella of Christianity, there exists a practically infinite number of different beliefs. Catholics have different beliefs than Protestants which in turn have different beliefs than Mormons which in turn have different beliefs from Jehovah Witnesses...and so on. Then, even in the same sect, you're going to get noticeable differences in beliefs based on the individuals background: their age, nationality, gender, education level, intelligence, devotion, political leanings, personality, etc. |
||||
|
||||
|
rekishi
Posts: 78 |
|
|||
|
re: the rant;
i ain't touching that with a 10 foot pole... re: the flake; the only thing i liked more than the flake (it's fun listening to poor idiots with even poorer grammar) was the reply... "piles of money left on the front lawn for telling everyone to buy air TV"... LAWL... (p.s. i'l be buying kanon if it gets licensed, but dunno bout air yet) don't buy it if you don't like how ADV are going to 'butcher' it (you know you're going to anyways)... you have the fansubbed version, so just watch that and leave the rest of us alone. re: shounen anime; i'm not at all fussed with most shounen series (naruto, one piece and the like) but i have no problems with people who do like them. if i see a discussion about it, i don't bother reading, and move on... it's just not my thing... what i dislike, is when shounen fans get angry when someone says they didn't like naruto or what ever... seriously, it's like the greatest taboo to say anything bad about naruto around someone who is a true fan of it. they'll berate you with 10 pages on why it's good, and if you still say "no it's not for me", then you and your favourite anime get flamed... just mellow out, accept that not everyone considers children beating each other up as high quality entertainment, take your blood pressure medicine (or get some) and get over it... ok, that's me done... |
||||
|
||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group