Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! - The Subtitle Will Not Be Televised
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Tamaria
 Posts: 1512 Location: De Achterhoek |
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It's like that everywhere in the EU. When it comes to manga, the trick is to use stores located within the EU such as bookdepository.com and archonia.com. Getting affordable anime is a bit harder, but fortunately the European R2 industry is pretty active. Trickiest part is merchandise, especially figures. You pretty much always have to pay extra if your package gets 'caught' and it adds up pretty quickly. As for used manga, well if you can't afford/find something new, it's still better than supporting some scanlation site. Sure, the money won't go to whoever made it, but it's likely to end up in the hands of another fan (who will probably buy new manga with it) or a nice (comic) bookstore. That's not so bad, is it? |
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Asterisk-CGY
 Posts: 398 |
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And it becomes a fallacy that a good is so flimsy that it would lose it's value if it were to be sold on a second hand market, or copied and distributed to consumers.
If this good's integrity was that easily ruined then probably that good had little value to begin with. |
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Spoofer
 Posts: 356 Location: NY |
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I have absolutely no idea what the rationales behind these statements are. Who is buying these releases listed here ( animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/releases.php?yearmonth=2011 ) if not a still-significant portion of dedicated anime and manga fans? (less consumers than in the past? almost certainly. anywhere near as insignificant as to warrant your irresponsible blanket statement? please.) Why are you claiming that the pirates (legitimate streaming options haven't existed for the full decade you've stated, so who or what else are you referring to?) are the "hardest of the hardcore" compared to the fans with DVDProfiler/etc. links showcasing $100+k worth of DVD/BDs or pics of shelves overflowing with industry goods? Thanks for insinuating that to be "hardcore" all you need to do is know how to click a download button, and for perpetuating and influencing the self-fulfilling prophecy that anime fans no longer support the physical industry (it doesn't need the extra push in that direction). You're usually against these sort of statements, and even claim to be "incensed" by the behavior you're essentially suggesting further down below in a separate Q&A. I'm quite disappointed in the manner in which you chose to phrase your ideas.
.......... No, no I think they understood the point far better than you understood theirs... Last edited by Spoofer on Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ljaesch
Posts: 299 Location: Enumclaw, WA |
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That question about buying things used.... oy vey.
The complaints of the videogame industry are nothing new. When I was teenager in the early 1990s, I remember Garth Brooks going on a tirade about people buying used music, and basically using the exact same arguments and complaints that the videogame industry is using now. In fact, Garth tried to keep his 1993 album, In Pieces, out of record shops that sold used CDs. Unfortunately, for Capitol Records, this action led to several anti-trust lawsuits against the company, and Capitol ended up shipping the album to all stores. My husband mentioned to me that he seems to remember the RIAA trying to take used CD sellers to court during the 1990s, but that the courts ultimately sided with the stores. I've been trying to find anything online with additional information, but my searches seem to be bringing up more recent things... and I don't have time to dig deeper right now. Also, he seems to recall (as do I) that the RIAA was trying to claim that not only should buying used CDs be illegal, but that someone buying a copy and then turning around and giving it to someone else as a gift was a "bad thing." It really was ridiculous. Since he didn't address it, I'm curious to hear if he equates used music, used movie, and used book sales to that of used videogames, since stores can potentially sell used copies of an item that's currently "in print," and have both the new and used copies in their stores. |
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Cutiebunny
 Posts: 1748 |
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I agree with Tashfin. The simple fact is that, economically speaking, if the alternative to 'legal' services is not only free, easily obtainned and can be accessed by anyone in (almost) every country on the planet, then, aggregator sites will continue to exist. Asking people to import stuff in countries where duty is heavily enforced or using proxy sites to view legal streams is unrealistic.
You can rant on your soapbox all you'd like about how piracy hurts the creator, the industry, ad infinitum, but this is how the majority of the world has and will continue to obtain any source of entertainment as long as it exists. Until laws to protect media worldwide are not only created, but heavily enforced, file sharing, streaming, downloading, etc. will continue to exist. I personally find it comical that the anime and manga industry have asked fans to not view anything until it has been licensed as it hurts them. Although I'm sure there are a few that would do so based on principal, the majority of people will enjoy the product now. Personally, I'd rather give my money to the artist, directly, rather than hope that they'll receive 10 cents from every legitimate item I buy (while the rest goes towards that big Golden Week bonus for some Japanese executive). If Kishimoto has a Paypal account, I'm sure that there are many people out there, myself included, that would love to make a direct payment to you. |
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Chagen46
 Posts: 4377 |
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Those names were forced onto Funi by the Japanese rights holders. No nane change, no license. Remember that Funi is a licening company. They have to adhere to the wishes of the rights holders (And Japanese licensors can be wierd). |
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UtenaAnthy
 Posts: 694 |
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Oh please Tashfin, there are vast swathes of women in the u.s. who can't afford birth control. I live on disability benefits and if the government is currently demonising me and people like me, many of whom will have said benefits taken away even though they need them. There are plenty of people in first world nations who are poor, yes most of the 1 percent are in those nations, but most of those in those nations are not the 1 percent. However, I agree with your point about how sanctimonious and ignorant it is when somebody says "but everything is streaming legally online now!" first of all that is not true even in the u.s. (Mawaru PenguinDrum, Touch, Future Boy Conan...) second of all even if we're just talking the u.k., it's only a fraction of the streaming content available in the u.s., and as you say the situation is utterly dire WRT legal content in many other countries.
Oh and also, Brian, having a go at people who buy used stuff? I knew there was a nasty underside to this "support the industry" thing. And I do support the industry, BTW, I just got a huge box of anime DVDs (and a couple of T-shirts) from Right Stuf in the post this morning and I bought at least... 15, maybe 20 manga volumes from WHSmith's in the last two or three weeks (got a 20% off voucher) and a few from my local independent comic store as well (I can't usually afford to buy anywhere near this much). But there's no way I'm going to stop buying used manga and anime. I mean, you actually expect me to pay RRP for every manga volume I buy? They have a store in town that sells used manga for £3 each, £10 for four volumes, and that store is the sister store to the local independent comic shop as well, and there is no way I'm passing up bargains like that. Well, at least you acknowledged how hard it is to get stuff new if you don't buy it really quickly after it comes out. Last edited by UtenaAnthy on Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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LordByronius
ANN Columnist
 Posts: 861 Location: Philippe for America! He is five. |
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i didn't miss the "gist" of anything. it's perfectly clear to me that the guy who wrote and drew it is an entitled asshole. he could've maybe, i dunno, WAITED A WEEK OR TWO until the first season comes out on DVD or Blu Ray? then Netflix'd them? it is not, quote, "the IP holders' fault" for "not giving the customer what they want." because what the customer wants, ALL THE TIME, is for things to be free and instantaneous. THAT'S NOT A VERY GOOD BUSINESS SOMETIMES. especially if, i dunno, it's A VERY, VERY EXPENSIVE SHOW ON A NETWORK THAT DEPENDS ON SUBSCRIBERS TO STAY ALIVE, AND THAT IS HOW THEY *CREATE* THESE SHOWS IN THE FIRST PLACE. (also they have other great shows too! i know Boardwalk Empire doesn't have the nerd cred of "high fantasy" but seriously it's damn good, at least the first season) sadly, as much as you moan about it, YOU DON'T GET TO DECIDE HOW SOMETHING IS PRESENTED TO YOU. it sucks that sometimes it's inconvenient, or stupid, but... them's the breaks. much in the same way that HBO executives don't get to come into your house and tell you how to dress yourself, you don't get to tell them how to release their VERY EXPENSIVE TO MAKE TV SERIES and then pirate it because it is "unavailable" to you because you don't subscribe to their network. the point of HBO's stellar (usually) lineup of programming is to, i dunno, maybe GET YOU TO SUBSCRIBE TO HBO, because that's how they stay in business. you don't want cable? that's cool dude - DVD and Blu Ray comes out in a week! can't wait that long? be an adult, for Christ's sake. 20 years ago The Simpsons were making jokes about how it sucks to "not get HBO" and how you were missing out on great programming. now it's turned into "HBO is HOLDING MY SHOW HOSTAGE and i will free it from their clutches WITH MY JUSTIFIED (SOMEHOW) PIRACY." what a world. |
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configspace
Posts: 3717 |
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The whole argument against buying used in the reply is utterly ridiculous. So what if Gamestop or whoever made $1 or $1 zillion? The whole principle is that you are paying for ownership of your copy. That is, in the used market you are transferring your possession. The previous owners don't get to play the game (or manga, or whatever) anymore. The rights holders didn't gain any additional user of that property, so why should they complain? Just because the buyers made a profit?
 Entire businesses (bonds, investments, used cars, everything on ebay, etc) follow precisely this model
That itself is not a good reason since that is what everyone wants-- including the producers. Just as much as people want stuff for free, if they can produce something without paying anyone they'd do it too. But you know what? That's fine. In fact, that tension is required for any kind of economic advancement. |
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Animegomaniac
Posts: 4093 |
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"One type of illegal acquisition is more just than another." Ok, you've convinced me: Piracy is ok. I mean, it has to be, it stands to reason in this day and age, that those in power make the rules as to what is illegal. Here's an example, have you ever tried to rent new anime DVDs through Netflix? I don't mean deluxe, limited sets, I mean basic "Buy our junk" Funimation discs. Renting anime DVDs prior to buying them? Denied. Oh, these companies would stop libraries if they could, don't kid yourself into thinking otherwise. Fine, ok. Legitimate streaming? Ok, prior to buying Heaven's Lost Propert or Samurai Girls, I wanted to check out the entire dub of a show that was already streamed/shown completely in Japenese so I could know what I'm in for. Guess what:Denied. I'm running out of options except for blind buys and there's no way I have the money to buy everything brand new right off the press. TV, you say? I don't mind it but it's getting harder and harder to find them. I watched Durarara on TV and it was bleeped and missing "On the next" segments if there were any in the first place but it was there. It was! It wasn't a vision, I saw it! I wouldn't mind getting it on DVD if it was priced by a sane man. Anime on TV: Idiot. Anime on Demand: All the inconvenience of streaming with all the limited provider chosen content that can only come from a TV channel. Say it with me now: Baka. Funimation channel: Doesn't exist. It's sad to say that pirating works when considering the alternative. It's obvious that publishers have the right to say what's an illegal use of their intellectual property but isn't it a bit odd that they also have the right to say what's a legal use of their intellectual property? "You can buy the DVD but not rent it" or "you can hear the sub but not the dub" or with Aniplex : "Yer first taste is free! Prepare for yer finances to be plundered! Har!" Anime is plain highway robbery, there's no doubt about it. Or a blantant form of piracy and I haven't even gotten into the Japanese end of it. I've never seen a fandom where being preyed upon isn't just an unfortunate side effect, it's the entire business. In Japan, it's even something of a status symbol. It's the only explanation I got for it, not so much the prices but the amount of content per DVD. It's too bad that I want what I want in the form of my choosing {Don't even get me started on how that has become a bad thing. The consumer has the right to remain silent. Oh and to pay, we can't forget that one as it's the most important}. Perhaps I'm just being greedy but for me, it's a dubbed DVD so I'm not being completely unreasonable here. I just want to see it before buying it, the same with any form of entertainment for me. So the surest way to fight their piracy is for me to become a pirate? For it to be otherwise, they would have to create a fluid distribution system that could change until they finally got it right. And on that day, flying pigs will be lining up to buy the final One Piece collection. On the other hand, if you are just in it for the fansubs you see for free and you make up every excuse you can as to not buy the official releases {And on this site, I've seen such excuses as retitles, dubs and subs that don't quite match the fansubs} than you are not a pirate but a parasite. One last thing: I don't like fansubs. I don't mind subtitles but fansubs are just so smary... |
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dewlwieldthedarpachief
 Posts: 751 Location: Canada |
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If you live outside a designated region and are having your IP blocked from access, one way to circumvent this blockage is to use DNS rerouting (e.g. unblock-us.com). Basically, you input the DNS number from your router and use the service to access the restricted content. You can also just do this with the DNS numbers of specific devices, as well. Mind, some LG, Panasonic, and Sharp TVs either do not support or have been specifically altered to not run American apps like Netflix; in such a case, an external box like Apple TV or a PlayStation 3 could be able to do so.
I'm not sure what the actual logic behind this IP blocking is; two ideas would be region control and concerns about bandwidth. As someone with an extensive foreign DVD collection I snort at the former, and in a world where half the population can't even manage to set up AdBlock on their browser it's difficult to think this could drastically affect the latter. People going to the trouble to pay for things like Netflix are hardly scoundrels for out-interneting them, imho. |
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skaly
 Posts: 148 |
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I really like Answerman's responses regarding piracy (which I believe was done for last week's column as well). I typically side against piracy for the very reasons he mentions... but I also have a roommate who has perfected the art of rationalizing and has lured me over to the Dark Side (or whatever the anime equivalent is) every so often.
Despite the numerous rationalizations, the only argument that really spoke to me was the idea that corporations are basically screwing creators. I don't know how well manga writers and artists are compensated, but I think it's pretty well established that American screenwriters make only a fraction of what the studio makes. Even Louis C.K. made a comment about how he only makes 5 cents (or some other low amount) for each of his DVDs that get sold. In other words, it's okay to steal from corporations because they screw the creators we would want to support. (I still don't like this line of reasoning.) I suppose one solution is to do some research and find other ways to support artists. The webcomic artists seem to be doing okay selling books, T-shirts, and whatnot. |
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Tamaria
Posts: 1512 Location: De Achterhoek |
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There's nothing wrong with selling used games, but Gamestop is very aggressive and they've crossed the line if you ask me. They're encouraging people to play and finish games as soon as possible, so they can trade them in for a decent amount of store credit. Of course, you can turn in games you bought used, too, and you'll get the same as you'd get for a copy you bought new. It's more like renting than buying and Gamestop is making a very nice profit because of it. In short: they've found a way to cheat the system and now they've ruined it for the rest of us. Last edited by Tamaria on Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dewlwieldthedarpachief
Posts: 751 Location: Canada |
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Hey now, corporations are people too...
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Tamaria
Posts: 1512 Location: De Achterhoek |
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Actually, no, they wouldn't. Libraries are some of the most loyal customers a company can have. 15-20% of the sales of some of Vertical's titles are thanks to libraries. The number goes up for publishers that are active mostly/only in the academic field. Losing libraries would hurt. While I'm sure companies would rather have everyone buy their own copy, they (well, atleast most of them...) know very well that simply isn't going to happen. Not just because of piracy, but also because the typical consumer doesn't have a near infinite amount of cash floating around. Libraries buy copies for people who were never going to buy it in the first place. |
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