Forum - View topic

Hey, Answerman! [2006-07-28]

Steroid wrote:

To those who say that it's worth taking away lolicon to prevent potential rapes: having a modern, free society is not a panacea. Someday, when we're all immortals, it will be. For now, though, we have to choose whether it's really worth it. So here's my take, put bluntly: I think it's worth it to have children raped to have the free communication of sexual material. I'm not saying we should condone rape--when someone does it, let's find them and kill them--but I am saying that freedom, even of something unpopular and unproductive, is more valuable to me than safety.

From a Constitutional standpoint:
No rapist will succeed in a case claiming his right of free speech, regardless whether the standard of review was based on rational scrutiny, intermediate scrutiny, or strict scrutiny. That's why we have Child Pornography Laws (rightfully, so).

From a Morality standpoint:
First off, big ups to Zac for bringing up this heated topic in his column. I read all of the posts, and I see the validity of most of the arguments made here. I used to enjoy Ichigo Mashimaro because it was cute in the same way I found Tiny Snow Sugar Fairy cute. But after reading Zac's column and the discussion in this thread, I don't think I'll be able to enjoy watching those shows anymore. They are still cute, but given the context and the target audience surrounding the show (I just learned minutes ago, as a result of this forum, that Barasui used to be a former lolicon artist), I don't think I'll be comfortable watching the show anymore.

Even though it sucks, that's reality. When I do come across an anime show involving minors or even characters who look like minors, that issue will be on the back of my mind, thus decreasing the entertainment value of that show.

And Steroid, sadly not everyone holds certain morals as inalienable as they should be.

It's called FREEDOM. It means you can't take it away...ABSOLUTE RIGHT...Taking that right away is A MORAL CRIME...if you can't deal with that, then you can't claim tolerance

Steve007101 wrote:

Quote:

And Steroid, sadly not everyone holds certain morals as inalienable as they should be.

Yeah, its sad we don't all think that raping children okay because its someone's "freedom" to do so. You completely misunderstand this "freedom" thing.

[everyone go read this guys post, it is too long to quote, it is on page 11].

Morally speaking no one can force someone to do anything unless they have in some way consented to it with everyone else, democracy, society, as it generally is today.

Zac, you have to realize just because you think something is right doesn't mean you have to force it, we call that totalitarianism.

Steroid wrote:

It's called FREEDOM. It means you can't take it away...ABSOLUTE RIGHT...Taking that right away is A MORAL CRIME...if you can't deal with that, then you can't claim tolerance

Tolerance? Is that the new angle for You Can't Take My Loli? (Which no one is trying to do, anyway.)

By your logic, we should allow people to murder because its their freedom to do so. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. My freedom to swing my fist ends where the other guys face begins. "Freedom" is not unlimited.

You've entered in to the realm of utter and total nonsense and you're living in some fantasy world. I had only one response to it.

What you're arguing is that people should be allowed to do to one another whatever they like in the name of "freedom"; that it's "insane and evil" to say that we shouldn't be raping children for sexual satisfaction. You're only considering the rights of the person who wants the satisfaction, but not the victim. The entire concept baffles me. How can you not understand that your right to look at child pornography ends when you're infringing on the right of the child to, you know, not be raped? How can you not get that?

You might "reject assumptions I consider basic", but that simply means you're living in some kind of fantasy world and you clearly don't understand anything about things like "laws". Your understanding of what freedom is shallow, one-sided and nonsensical. You can sit there all day and say to yourself that you "believe children should be raped to protect free speech", but that isn't going to change the fact that our society and our laws do not work that way and you're not ever going to find a society that does operate that way. This is like telling yourself the sky is green and then arguing with people about it.

I ask people like Steroid, since they seem to be libertarian on this issue -- where WOULD they draw the line, and when? If not here, then where? Is it that everyone's niche interest is to be protected, even when there is the chance that it could harm a larger structure?

You say that the mind is "all rights and no responsibilities." This I cannot accept. A person must exercise at least as much responsibility of their conscious mind (and remember, one's conscience is part of the mind) as they do their body. An ill of the mind is tenfold that of the body, as it represents not merely act but potential.

President Dwight Eisenhower once said that "A people that values its priviliges above its principles soon loses both." We are at risk of losing the principle -- love of the anime artform -- because some want their little privilige -- watching prepubescent children used as sexual objects.

I'm willing to go with you on the whole "Strawberry Marshmallow isn't full of pedo fan service" thing.

Dude give it a rest, I get the idea I'm being over critical of his distaste for it by trying to justify it by going on about the extent of freedom and order, but I mean come on, I already said I actually dislike loli myself lol

President Dwight Eisenhower once said that "A people that values its priviliges above its principles soon loses both." We are at risk of losing the principle -- love of the anime artform -- because some want their little privilige -- watching prepubescent children used as sexual objects.

I'm pushing thirty with a job and co-workers who heard me last week whine about how I wish I could have gone to Anime-Expo. My boss is an elected official who worries about her image and the image of everyone she employs. The day a major news media runs some story on anime lolican is going to be a hellish day for me. I shudder to think of what my co-workers might say or do. I am currently hoping they have all forgotten I ever mentioned the fact that I am an anime fan.

Because we are beings of unlimited desire and limited means. And if the physical world will not yield to our desires, we at least owe it to ourselves to keep them pure in the temples of our minds.