Forum - View topicNEWS: Man Pleads Guilty to Coercing Girl He Met at Anime Con
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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"I focus on what happened, why it happened, who was involved, what did they do?" isn't an "intellectual" point of view. It's self-serving smugness. At least, that's how it comes across. That's how it always comes across, especially because 99 percent of the time people who claim to be "intellectuals" about horrible crimes like this one are always doing the 'blame the victim for not being as smart as I perceive myself to be" thing. Every time. Never makes you look good, never makes you look smart, always makes you look like a jerk. The responses here, mine included, bear that out. But I don't know you - you might not be a jerk. You might be a really smart guy who just isn't very good at communicating his beliefs, or a really smart guy who's just a little too far down the internet rabbit hole of "human emotions are for dummies, let's examine everything from a place of cold judgment; doing so means I'm smarter than everyone" that is extremely visible in virtually every internet community dominated by self-identified nerds. And "Gosh! Was anyone hurt? I hope they're alright!" isn't an emotional point of view. That's someone responding with basic human empathy. Which I guess in your view isn't the "smart" or "intellectual" way to respond to things. |
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Rukiia
 Posts: 1897 Location: British Columbia, Canada |
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Ahem....
You were saying?
Did I specifically name you as being the one who said that? No? Refer to the following quote:
Might want to read everyone's responses first before jumping in like that. 
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Crisha
Moderator
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Okay, I was completely wrong saying that, and it came out sounding worse than what I was trying to say. I think the molester takes all of the blame in the case. My problem is that my parents have been drilling into my head for the longest time about being careful around strangers to the point where I'm probably overly cautious about it. So some of the decisions made in this seemed like a no-brainer to me. But it's wrong of me to try and fill her shoes and pass judgment like that when I can't entirely understand the situation. Plus, she's practically half my age, and I know I've made some dumb decisions myself. She's the victim, she was coerced, and that's that. It's just... I hope she exercises more caution in the future for her own sake. This story ended up having a better ending than what it could have been (it wasn't a good ending, not at all, but it could have been one of those "body found in the woods years later" sort of scenarios) - and I know I sound like my parents when I say that. Last edited by Crisha on Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ABCBTom
 Posts: 183 |
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In that case, it's so easy. A crime happened. In the case of a crime, the criminal is always 100% to blame. These are not laws of physics, laws of mathematics, or laws of nature: They are human choices. When a person chooses to commit a crime, that crime is their fault. Entirely. There may be a time and a place to discuss how to avoid finding yourself in a situation like this and reducing risk factors, but why now? Why is that the first thought that arises in so many commenters' minds? You can think about what happened, why it happened and so forth. But the order one asks these questions is telling. Why isn't "Who committed the crime?" a more important question than "What did the victim do wrong this time?" |
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RoverTX
 Posts: 424 |
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It is like the TSA though in a way. Going through and checking names against a database is like those Backscatter X-ray machines. Yes they sound and look like they make people safer, but do they really? There are ways to avoid the scanners, ie sticking things inside the body. Just as there are clear easy ways to avoid the database checks, give a false name and false ID. Which is pretty easy now days. (Not saying that they shouldn't check IDs or the Backscatter X-ray, that's a debate for someplace else, just saying they both seem rather ineffective, and give people a false sense of security) In both cases what makes people really safer is being reminded to pay attention to the danger and to be knowledgeable of the danger. The underwear bomber and the shoe bomber where both stopped, not because of TSA, but because passengers took notice and took action. So a far more effective deterrent against pedobears might be some type of program where the con takes an active part in informing people of the dangers(Which are present at any place where kids gather). If people are aware of the danger, and feel peer pressure to report issues, and/or that its ok too, they are more likely not only to protect themselves, but protect others around them(which could have been the key in this case). PS The Guy is To Blame. In cases like this its never about actually sexual attractions, its more then 99% likely about rage and anger issues btw. The Girl is irrational, as anyone of that age is, and is purely the victim in this case, but she does need support and I hope her parents have arranged for some type of mental help. There is no info about the Parents, they could be terrible neglectful people, or they could be awesome parents who just rolled snake eyes and put their guard down at the wrong second. Finally remember, the pedobear's most effective weapon of survival is other people's shame. Edit Note: Guy was Guys, I wish I was a better proof reader...... Last edited by RoverTX on Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:18 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Jedi Master
 Posts: 400 |
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First off, Mr. Alper is guilty. He himself admits it and looking through the thread no one denies this.
As for whether or not you believe the teenager needs to take some responsibility: put yourself in the parent's shoes. If you were this teenager's parents, do you put on blinders and believe she can go through life without taking responsibility for her actions? Or do you acknowledge that she made some very bad choices and is in need of corrective action to make sure that she avoids being victimised again? As a reminder, Mr. Alper is guilty. He himself admits it and looking through the thread no one denies this. However, there are other predators out there. Parents have to take responsibility in raising their children to make the right choices when approached by those predators. A fan convention isn't going to do that. A discussion in an online forum isn't going to do that. The parents have to. That's the job of being a parent. Lastly, I have noticed an undercurrent of both misandry and misogyny pop up in the thread. Gender based hate is as ugly as other forms of hate. It undermines intelligent discussion and has made this thread more inflammatory than need be. |
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Teriyaki Terrier
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I am going to be very blunt here, I feel bad for the girl, I truly do. I honestly don't think any of this is her fault in the very least. But I do hope she learns from this whole ordeal and somehow manages to lead a normal and productive life.
As for the guy, what he did is truly sick and wrong and in no way whatsoever think he shouldn't be accountable for his actions. However, what I don't understand is why the parents do any action sooner. Now before anyone says anything, I realize parents can't watch their kids 24/7 and some kids might be crafty, but parents have a ace in hole because if there is anyone who truly knows their kid, it's their parent. Let me give an example. Back when I was 13, for the most part I was a good kid and didn't really cause trouble. However, when I was about to do something dumb, it seemed my parents were always two steps ahead of me. Despite the fact I usually did not mention anything usually. But I later learned they were able to tell by small changes in me. I don't know about anyone else, but there is a big difference when a person is calm and natural and when a person isn't. Well given that your parents know you better than anyone else, mine sure detected those changes. Anyway, what I am getting at is that this girl probably was acting different than she was before this whole ordeal and although some signs maybe be subtle, at least once or twice it would be somewhat clear that something was going on with their daughter. Now if their daughter was experienced FBI or CIA agent, the changes would likely be significantly more challenging to notice, but since she is not and is only 13, it would only be a matter of time before her parents (either one or both of them) figured out that their daughter is acting like she used to. Before I go on I would like to re-enforce that I am not entirely blaming her parents. I think it safe to say most parents, no matter how rebellious they are, would not expect this type of ordeal. At least not at the age of 13. Could they have prevented this? Possibility, but if the daughter got crafty enough or really wanted to see him, she would have found a way. If there is one thing I learned while in life, if there is a will, there is a way. But in a case such as this, that does not apply so much. At the end of the day though, I truly do feel bad for the girl and her family though. Although the guy has pleaded guilty, the girl still has to live with the fact this happened. That alone can just as worst as the event it self. Although it's very sad what happened, it could have ended much more worse than it did initially. Other people in this situation aren't nearly as lucky, unfortunately. But let it be said, she didn't deserve this, not in the very least. That is my opinion at least. |
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hikaricore
 Posts: 58 |
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Ughhh..... don't you even try to tell me what stance I should and shouldn't take on something. That's for me to decide. If I want to fight an uphill battle against stubborn and biased people then so be it. Let me try to put this in terms that you might possibly understand, I mean I know it won't happen because you've clearly sided with the other small minds in the flock.. but I feel it's atleast worth a try. Let's pretend for just one second AND I'm by no means saying this is what happened, but in a hypothetical scenario it could possibly be alright? I swear to the gods if anyone quotes this out of context... nevermind. But hypothetically if a young girl (not this one) in some way got involved with an older man (not the guy here) and started having a relationship with him of her own free will, but then changed her mind after finding out he was a sex offender (still not talking about the jackass here) and confessed everything to (not the girl from this story) her parents and the police. What exactly should happen? Well obviously the guy is in deep deep shit once everything is proven or he confesses. No one here will deny that. But what about the girl? If this were any other (criminal) situation she would end up in juvenile court. Now again I'm not saying she should, or that she's guilty, but in the odd situation which can and does occur in this world, what then? If a girl stabs her classmate she's would get arrested and most likely sent to DH (juvenile hall) aka kid jail. If she burned down a building? Same thing. Got caught selling drugs? Possibly. Stole from a store? Probably community service. Vandalized her school? That's a tossup. Now that I've made some examples let me get back on topic here. In all of these situations where a teenage girl did something she shouldn't have there would be consequences and she would not be saved by the fact that she's too young to know any better. Make her a 16 year old girl and in some of these situations she could be considered an adult depending on circumstances. But I'm getting off topic again. As I said IF in the unthinkable situation where a young girl were to instigate a situation where she was hooking up with an older guy, traveling by herself out of state, sneaking out, etc. Even if the adult is fully guilty and admits to everything, why is she suddenly just a kid and doesn't know any better? I know this is an apples and oranges hypothetical situation that I'm comparing here but I just can't quite wrap my head around it. I know the majority of you won't read this correctly. So let me know if you need a torch to burn me with. Ya know, any little thing I can do to help. |
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Sunday Silence
 Posts: 2047 |
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Still wondering if this was the same guy on America's Most Wanted a while back....still wondering...
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NonoAsumy
Posts: 90 |
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I am surprised no one has brought up this yet
but what if the girl was indeed hot? I know we have no photograph of her and even if we were in possesion of such we first had to analyze both the light and the angle of the picture and discuss certain beauty standards but what if ( I am not saying anything yet only making assumptions) but what IF we came to the conclusion that she was like a 7 or 8 out of 10 on the scale for 13 year old girls? Hm? Or god beware a 9... Makes you think... Sadly there isn´t much you can do about that. I often hear suggestions that wearing a burka might help but they have been fetishized already by a lot of men. And I do not think that it is just to blame a man for his fetish... truly an unsolvable dilemma we have here. |
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Parvati-IV
 Posts: 72 |
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Probably because it CHANGES NOTHING about the whole situation? What if she was hot? What if she was ugly? Her age is the same. |
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Rukiia
Posts: 1897 Location: British Columbia, Canada |
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Don't feed the obvious troll. |
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Ole Goatweed
Posts: 9 |
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The bad guy's been caught and hopefully will not ever get the chance at a fourth attempt of doing what he's done; as good a result as one can hope for in these circumstances really.
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GracieLizzy
 Posts: 551 Location: Sunderland, England, UK |
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I always tend to prefer conventions where you have to be 16 or 18 to attend and all of the attendees have to pre-reg no at door allowed. I mean I've been to a few now and by far the better ones are the ones where you have to pre-reg in my experience. It makes it easier to ban attendees who have caused problems in the past for one thing.
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Strawberryelle
Posts: 43 |
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Other than the third one none of those are defendinghim.
didn't say you did accuse me mate, but it appears as though people think there are only 2 sides to this so I figured I'd at least attempt to distinguish myself, not that it matters or would work anyways. Right, its the guy fault, through and through, but you cant say she didn't have ANY control on the situation. Even though she was young and didn't have good judgement, she DID have some common sense even if it wasn't a lot. If people actually thought that 13 year olds had ZERO control on what happens to them then they would never let them leave the house. Why even bother giving them the 'stranger danger' talk when it doesn't matter then and isn't going to make a difference? Afterall you couldn't possibly expect them to know better since old fat tubs of lards have this mystical seducing charm that instantly brain washes girls into following them to their lair. He wasn't some teacher that was an authority figure that she saw everyday and couldn't get away from. He wasn't a family member that she couldn't avoid. Her only contact with him was through the internet and cell phones, she DID have control whether or not to keep in contact, or at least she did in the beginning when she gave him her contact info. But yet, we live in a world where 13 year olds are allowed to go alone to the mall, to babysit, to date, to walk to school, to have a facebook. So obviously not everyone thinks that a 13 year old has ZERO control on what happens to them. |
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