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Funimation Addresses Prison School Dub Comments Over Gamergate Line


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Joe Carpenter



Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Posts: 503
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 11:00 pm Reply with quote
I'm not completely against rewriting lines if it makes the dub funnier or sound more natural, but that was bad a line, for one thing it really dates it, no one's gonna remember what the hell Gamergate is in ten years.
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Eldritcho



Joined: 14 Dec 2010
Posts: 260
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 11:24 pm Reply with quote
Joe Carpenter wrote:
I'm not completely against rewriting lines if it makes the dub funnier or sound more natural, but that was bad a line, for one thing it really dates it, no one's gonna remember what the hell Gamergate is in ten years.


Eh, i'd make it five. With the way our current culture rapidly shifts due to technological advancement and ease of communication, something which originated on twitter isn't exactly going to make it into the history books.

As for the line in question, I'm reminded of the Sarah Palin jokes from HotD. Is she even relevant anymore?

Anyone? Anyone?

Thought so.


Last edited by Eldritcho on Sun Oct 04, 2015 1:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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RoverTX



Joined: 17 Dec 2008
Posts: 424
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 11:27 pm Reply with quote
On one hand I think strict translations can miss the point. Taking a few years of Japanese in college actually made me like modern dubs a little bit more, because the reasoning for the none strict translation actually made a little more sense. For instance, as had been said before, Yu Yu Hakusho had a lot of swearing "added" to the dub. The issue is a strict translation would have missed the mark. It would pretty weird if Yusuke wasn't swearing in the dub, because that is how english speaking street punks talk.

On the other hand I hate cheap shot sophomoric political commentary. It does nothing to help the political dialogue, and is nothing more than a cheap attempt to shame your advisories and increases rancor and decreases the hopes for compromise, collation building, and meaningful dialogue.

Not to mention the line just seems to come out of left field about something from like what 2 years ago? The whole thing seems bizarre to me.
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anii23



Joined: 03 Oct 2015
Posts: 8
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 11:41 pm Reply with quote
This seems to have caused some controversy around the net so I couldn't help but be drawn to it and read the thread.

Forgetting about any ideological disagreements, I think it's pretty bad for Funi all around just because of the awkwardness of the translation. Dubs are kind of a luxury item now and not a necessity like it was for young anime fans growing up watching them on the TV. And while they'll always have an audience, the immediacy of subs and streaming (as well as the death of anime on television for a long time now) kind of makes dubs irrelevant except for the niche that wants them. I know tons of newbie anime fans in which dubs are something totally alien to them, since they just watch seasonal anime on the internet now, that's just what anime is to them (some were wary at first, but after SNK got big, they felt they just HAD to watch it right then, subs or not). And we've all already seen some large fandoms over the past 2-3 years explode before any dubs get made. Like how people just watch western shows on netflix now instead of fretting over discs. I guess them doing these much faster dubs is a step in the right direction.

I'm getting off topic. I guess my point is, this little controversy isn't a very big deal, but it'll always get trotted out now as an example of dubbing and why to avoid it, just because of the off-chance you may get a dub like this (the same happened with 'troll' sub groups back when they still existed). In fact that's how I came to learn of this to begin with. It's a shame because people in this thread here say the dub was actually well done except for this bizarre out of place line.
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Just-another-face



Joined: 08 Feb 2014
Posts: 324
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 1:06 am Reply with quote
anii23 wrote:
Dubs are kind of a luxury item now and not a necessity like it was for young anime fans growing up watching them on the TV. And while they'll always have an audience, the immediacy of subs and streaming (as well as the death of anime on television for a long time now) kind of makes dubs irrelevant except for the niche that wants them.


Wow, you actually believe that dubs are a luxury and are only desired by a niche crowd. Rolling Eyes
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Raikuro



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 347
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 1:09 am Reply with quote
It's pretty obvious the people complaining that it doesn't make sense never actually saw the dubbed scene. It takes place in an arcade, while the guy is playing a video game no less. After being rude to her it makes perfect sense for the spiced up adaptation line to be of her suspecting him of being a "gamergate creepshow" instead of Generic Japanese Dialogue #215.
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anii23



Joined: 03 Oct 2015
Posts: 8
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:05 am Reply with quote
Reading more up on it, seeing the scriptwriter saying things like "Who would've guessed that guys who couldn't get a girlfriend would be part of the show's demographic?" and "If you think rape threats against women are acceptable, I'm glad my script pissed you off" (could be read as, if you dislike the script, you approve of rape threats) is just fanning the flames. He's still going at it too right now, addicted to twitter ranting, clearly not being reigned in by HR, so I guess Funi's fine with him representing them. This is a strong case of bad PR and potential loss of reputation.

Whether people like it or not, I can guarantee that these sorts of convenient soundbites will be reposted for years and years (as every other example of bad dubbing has been, even if they're super rare and unrepresentative) and will be the thing new people tie to the Funimation brand, outside of its existing dedicated audience, especially since it's so volatile and controversial. I'm sure most people think such people "don't matter", but that's not the best way to grow a company.

Just-another-face wrote:
Wow, you actually believe that dubs are a luxury and are only desired by a niche crowd. Rolling Eyes


They are, though. Only certain audiences care about them anymore, outside of embarrassing controversies like this, which probably just proves the point. Within the anime niche, dubs are even more niche. Dubs only got so dominant because of young people watching television, and with Toonami barely staying alive these days, where else would people even watch most dubs in the first place? By buying physical media discs, which only people who are already into anime will buy. So they are sort of a more luxury thing these days, something you pay extra for, something you usually wait a long time for, only for more diehard fans of shows (especially old shows like DBZ), when everybody with a phone is just watching all TV shows on netflix/CR/illegal files/whatever.

Let me tell you, a show like Shingeki didn't get so insanely popular in the western fandoms because of its dub or Toonami, it predated all of those by a year. I've met so many people, even 'normal' coworkers, who would ask me "Hey have you seen this cartoon Attack on Titans? It's really cool!" before any dub came out, it was bizarre. Or other big things like KLK, or Jojo, or whatever other fads are going on, or how about all the discussion on the internet for the past 2 years about Eva 3.33, it wasn't because of a nonexistent dub. I mean, you have streaming services advertising on huge youtube channels with millions of viewers, it's crazy, that's where you're going to get tons of new young anime watchers, and they're going to eventually see subs as the new normal, and dubs as the weird niche thing of yesteryear, for people who are into these companies like Funimation and dub actors and other things they don't really know anything about, or care about. Internet companies probably don't make as much money as Funi would with each sale, I'm not arguing their financial successes here, they're a massive successful company, but streaming (just like F2P over subscriptions in MMOs) has taken a strong hold on the market and it'll only get stronger.

I mean, why do you think they're even doing these simuldubs in the first place? Companies wouldn't spend so much money for no reason, they're doing it because of actual or potential lost market share. But unless they delay the subs intentionally by a few days (which I think they've done), they'll always be released earlier than their simuldubs, and more people will rush to watch them over the dubs. Because just like with SNK or KLK and their social media craze with anime fans and non-anime watchers alike, people want to "be along for the ride" with everybody else, not a week or a year afterwards.
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Johan Eriksson 9003



Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Posts: 281
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:11 am Reply with quote
@Silvertalon
I don't see how I can "ignore" it when it hasn't even been brought up by any of the people I argue with. Not that it matters anyway.

@rasisgozu
1. It is an acceptable change because as I have said, the original line wasn't important. It was a throwaway line with the joke being that the guy can't even hear her because he is distracted. Changing it from a reference to Japanese respect-culture to a line that references something ongoing discussions in the west is perfectly acceptable, and something that happens quite often without you people blowing up over it. And it is not "controversial" to point and laugh at a hate-group.

2. If that was true then you would be treating every minor change the same [expletive] way. I call BS.

3. I literary explained this in the post. You cutting that part out doesn't magically erase that. Respecting my parents or grandparents is in no way comparable to showing respect because someone is just 1 year older. That is a Japanese thing.

Hey, isn't messing with comments one of those things you people think of as "censorship"? Mods! Mooooods! I'm being CENSOOOOOORED!!!!

4. And the job of a translator involves more than just translating the words directly. Doing that usually results in really bad dialogue and stilted performances. A translator also has to be aware of idioms and cultural references that doesn't quite work when moved to another language. There is also the fact that a company that owns the licence to a work also has their own artistic freedom when it comes to how they choose to bring that work to a new audience. New casting and scripts can change the tone of a show completely, and sometimes that is exactly what they are going for.

@Mr.Shounen
There is no "minimum requirement" when it comes to anime. Not everyone does get the senpai thing so changing that only makes sense. The fact that what they changed it into is also not widely accessible and out of place is another matter (that I actually agree with).

And aside from being a generally mysogonistic creep with that little "what if" you are basically proving my point that Gators are oversensitive babies if you think changing such a minor line is in any way indicative of major changes like THAT to come.
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anii23



Joined: 03 Oct 2015
Posts: 8
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:16 am Reply with quote
johan.eriksson.9003 wrote:
Not everyone does get the senpai thing so changing that only makes sense.


"Respect your elders" is a universal in all cultures and for all of human history.

Changing a line that "wasn't important" into a new joke makes no sense. If it was a japanese cultural reference joke already, and they changed it to an (evidently obscure) western one, then it would make sense.

Why not just turn every random line into a joke, then? "Hi guys" "Time to do homework" "Oh I'm late for class", turn them all into pop culture puns. I mean you don't lose anything right?
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Johan Eriksson 9003



Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Posts: 281
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:27 am Reply with quote
Great, another one.

anii23 wrote:

"Respect your elders" is a universal in all cultures and for all of human history.


Only in regards to senior citizens and parents. This was a line uttered by a girl who is only 1 year older than the boy she says it to. That is something that only makes sense in Japan.

anii23 wrote:
Changing a line that "wasn't important" into a new joke makes no sense. If it was a japanese cultural reference joke already, and they changed it to an (evidently obscure) western one, then it would make sense.


Not sure I understand what you are saying here, but I already pointed out that the new line was just as obscure and dated. Pay attention will you?

anii23 wrote:
Why not just turn every random line into a joke, then? "Hi guys" "Time to do homework" "Oh I'm late for class", turn them all into pop culture puns. I mean you don't lose anything right?


Oh look, more "but what if they take it too FAR..." stuff. Keep it up people, you don't look like scaredy-cats at ALL.
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Just-another-face



Joined: 08 Feb 2014
Posts: 324
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:39 am Reply with quote
anii23 wrote:
--clip--


And what's your point? Most folks here still watch dubs (and patiently wait for them to be made) while the sub watchers are the ones in the minority. You make it sound like dubs should just die off or something. I could care less what sub purists say as they can't be taken seriously. Subs shmubs. I only go with subs if, and only if, there is no dub that exists for a show (Uta Kata and Turn A Gundam, to name a couple).
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DuchessBianca



Joined: 24 Apr 2015
Posts: 562
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:44 am Reply with quote
anii23 wrote:
.


Not to derail the topic too much but I think you underestimate just how large/many the fanbase who prefers dubs really is and if anything they are more popular now then in times past and far from a weird niche from yesteryear. Part of what you say is true, many people do watch anime as it is aired in japan due to wanting it while its new so they can talk about it online/with friends and don't want to wait, but that's not something new however as it's always been the case it's just more prevalent now do to the more emphasis and popularity of online streaming as well as many of those people watching it subbed prefer dubs and will go back and watch it dubbed when thats released but want to be in on the new anime.

There are more new VA's now then in the past, convention attendance has never been higher and panels with the VA's are extremely popular, and while all people are never all going to agree but the general consensus is that dubs have never been as high of quality as they are today.

On to your last point about simuldubs, the fact that those exist now when if you read posts even on this site 3 years ago the idea of it was laughed at as almost an impossibility, shows how the dub industry has grown. Sure part of this is that with the advent of more focus on online streaming and a bit less emphasis on home video purchases (which make up the major funding, view ability of dubs) in order to keep up going forward companies need to adapt and not rely solely on video purchases but the fact that episodes are getting dubbed soon after they air in japan and its widely popular is also a sign of a growing industry. Companies now are also smarter then they were in the past, bless ADV but they realize now that they also can't dub everything they pick up and are more careful.

Long post being said dubs are still extremely popular with many fans and it'll be a long while before they truly become niche as you say, though a large factor going forward will be how companies adapt with simuldubs and getting things out faster because if theres one absolutely truth is that many fans want it now and not later.
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anii23



Joined: 03 Oct 2015
Posts: 8
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:58 am Reply with quote
Just-another-face wrote:
And what's your point? Most folks here still watch dubs (and patiently wait for them to be made) while the sub watchers are the ones in the minority. You make it sound like dubs should just die off or something. I could care less what sub purists say as they can't be taken seriously. Subs shmubs. I only go with subs if, and only if, there is no dub that exists for a show (Uta Kata and Turn A Gundam, to name a couple).


I'm not saying what should happen, I'm saying what likely will happen. It doesn't matter which you or I think is better or not. "Folks here" on ANN are in the minority, the niche hardcore who actually care about Funimation or any of these localization companies at all, which is what I was arguing about - dubs and discs are a "luxury item" that most anime fans nowadays don't bother with or care about. It's already proven that big anime series don't need dubs to have presence in the west anymore, unlike in the 90s and early 00s where television was king. This isn't an opinion.

johan.eriksson.9003 wrote:
That is something that only makes sense in Japan.


I guess we should change riceballs to donuts too.

Even if you were going to change the senpai line to something localized, changing it to something that's a joke or some edgy nonsense is out of line. Jokes should be changed to jokes, and non-jokes should be changed to non-jokes. This is not a youtube abridged series. If the rest of the dub was fine, then that seems to show that this line was even more of an anomaly, an oversight, a mistake, something he threw in there while getting enraged on twitter with some egg account. It clearly was, but they don't seem to want to own up to it, which is just a further embarrassment on their part.

johan.eriksson.9003 wrote:
That is something that only makes sense in Japan. Keep it up people, you don't look like scaredy-cats at ALL.


What's there to be scared about? Most people don't buy BDs, I sure as hell am not going to be watching most dubs, so this doesn't affect me at all. And more people are not going to trust their handling of localization in the future, even if they are good most of the time, but that's their fault for not editing their script writers properly.
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Actar



Joined: 21 Nov 2010
Posts: 1074
Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 3:03 am Reply with quote
DuchessBianca wrote:
Long post being said dubs are still extremely popular with many fans and it'll be a long while before they truly become niche as you say, though a large factor going forward will be how companies adapt with simuldubs and getting things out faster because if theres one absolutely truth is that many fans want it now and not later.


Not to derail the topic too much, but I'd really love to know what the appeal of dubs are.

anii23 wrote:
johan.eriksson.9003 wrote:
That is something that only makes sense in Japan.


I guess we should change riceballs to donuts too.

Even if you were going to change the senpai line to something localized, changing it to something that's a joke or some edgy nonsense is out of line. Jokes should be changed to jokes, and non-jokes should be changed to non-jokes. This is not a youtube abridged series. If the rest of the dub was fine, then that seems to show that this line was even more of an anomaly, an oversight, a mistake, something he threw in there while getting enraged on twitter with some egg account. It clearly was, but they don't seem to want to own up to it, which is just a further embarrassment on their part.


Cheers, mate. Really can't see how this line is defensible.

SilverTalon01 wrote:
To use your terms, sacrificing fidelity for transparency when you can't have both is not wrong either way. It is just the translator's preference. However, if you are going to sacrifice fidelity, but not increase transparency, then that isn't really translation. That is then simply inserting your own opinion into the work and essentially rewriting it.

Here there is originally no joke nor insult. Fidelity is lost because material is being added, but adding that line doesn't increase transparency. That is just poor work.


Yup. If I were to watch the dub, I'd want to watch Prison School, not (insert-writer's-name-here)'s rewrite of Prison School.

Deacon Blues wrote:
In the sub, the lines went something like this:

Your face looks something like Mori, the previous prime minister.

And the dub went:

You look like that American guy... you know, like Bill Clinton.

Granted, the entire scene was sort of lost in translation (especially the I wish I were a bird line), but the context was changed in order for American audiences to relate.


...as an English-speaking non-American, I find it really sad that they have to change a cultural reference to another cultural reference that's equally foreign from my perspective. Honestly, I believe that the English language should be separated from the American culture - as it is spoken all over the world by a multitude of cultures with no problems with communicative competence. By retaining the original, you won't be reducing a google search, but you can at least keep it faithful.


Last edited by Actar on Sun Oct 04, 2015 3:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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anii23



Joined: 03 Oct 2015
Posts: 8
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 3:13 am Reply with quote
DuchessBianca wrote:
snip


I may be exaggerating a tad, and I didn't take into account cons, but simuldubs to me shows them trying to play a game of catch-up, something they should've done a long time ago. Sure, this isn't a Blockbuster vs Netflix situation, but it has similarities. If dubs truly were the undisputed king, they wouldn't need to go above and beyond, especially when it surely costs a lot of money to do these dubs.

I see a lot of these streaming companies also getting tons of people while they're young (and probably aren't allowed to go to cons yet). Once they get them young, it'd be hard to switch them to go to dubs as their first and foremost standard for watching anime, they'll just find them weird and offputting (as many primarily dub watchers think about subs). These companies used to be able to do that with children because of television, but now people usually have to go out of their way to find dubs. It's also way easier than ever to find every show available to watch other than a limited selection, so even 'dub watchers" will be forced to watch many dubs if they do want to watch other shows.

And with lower amounts of revenue, and with tighter and tighter schedules, simuldubs will be harder to keep on top of in the long run, in my opinion. And we'll see more mistakes like this pop through.

I guess my point for bringing this up is, they shouldn't really be hurting themselves here, when they need to be working harder to get all that market and demographic lost by subtitle streaming sites over the past few years. Anime on the whole I think has gotten bigger, so both dubs and subs have grown in turn, but they really don't need things like this happening.
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