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VORTIA
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Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 941
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 Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 5:47 pm
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| dandelion_rose wrote: | | The main premise of it is that the girls are disturbed and that they have disturbing relationships with their handlers (or whoever it is those guys who are their guardians are) and we're supposed to condemn that disturbing-ness, but all the appeal of Gunslinger Girl is 'look look, little assassin girls with guns, aren't they cool / cute'. |
I think Gunslinger Girl is intended to challenge the viewer into thinking about a lot of things they'd rather not, which is the genius of it all. Whether your'e a lolicon or not, Gunslinger Girl is supposed to make you wonder about how people can be so cruel, and yet how some people can so happy in the midst of suffering that cruelty. It's about pain and suffering and recovery and redemption and it's all handled in a very classy and adult way. Yes, all these girls have bucketloads of issues and so do their handlers, and the way each handles the emotional burden of what they do is what's so awe inspiring about it.
You've got one handler that completely dehumanizes his girl because its the only way he can handle the guilt of using her as a weapon for assassination, and you've got another guy who's doing everything he can to give this cyborg killer an ordinary little girl's life. You could try to argue that its trying to appeal to lolicon, but I honestly don't know that Gunslinger Girl could possibly work with adults, or even little boys - it's the heartbreaking aspect of something so innocent being so wronged and making a fleeting play at being all right that's so powerful about the series.
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dandelion_rose
Joined: 12 May 2012
Posts: 657
Location: Kuala Lumpur
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Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 5:53 pm
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| jymmy wrote: |
I've never heard Gunslinger Girl discussed before but when I watched it my reaction was more "They're so cute but so sad...  " and that it was a shame that their childhoods had been stolen and stuff. And while the setup of the fratello unit was disturbing, it's still sweet that some of the nicer guys have let it work for the girls emotionally.
That said, I haven't seen the second series yet and I've heard it's supposed to focus more on action for whatever reason. But I saw them as more "admirable yet tragic" than "cute and cool". |
I remember the way it was pushed to the market and there was definitely the 'cute little girls with guns are cool' thing that was going on. To me it was a big barrier getting into the story, of which I just caught one or two episodes and then stopped.
If I ever give it a second chance, it's only because so many people whose work I admire seem to have been involved in that series, and it's only right to look at other stuff they've done.
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dandelion_rose
Joined: 12 May 2012
Posts: 657
Location: Kuala Lumpur
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Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 5:55 pm
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| VORTIA wrote: | | You could try to argue that its trying to appeal to lolicon... |
I am absolutely certain now that very few people actually read what I type.
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jl07045
Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Posts: 1527
Location: Riga, Latvia
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Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 6:00 pm
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| jymmy wrote: |
| jl07045 wrote: | | And that would be very good if KnJ wouldn't be presented as an ecchi comedy for half the time. |
That's because it's an ecchi comedy series. Like most series, it can switch between entertaining and serious. |
No, you either take the issue serious or you don't. If you show how screwed up those girls are and sexualize them anyway, that's exploitation, and the title then deserves most of the bad rap it gets.
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jymmy
Joined: 11 Nov 2011
Posts: 1244
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Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 6:03 pm
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| VORTIA wrote: | | Whether your'e a lolicon or not... |
Gotta say, the idea of lolicon never entered my head when I was watching this show. (I'm also sure it never entered the discussion regarding this series before, but that's another point.) You could argue - and I'd disagree - that there's the 'imouto' aspect and the appeal of the cuteness/coolness of little girls with guns, but I really didn't see the girls as sexualised at all.
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Mohawk52
Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
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Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 6:05 pm
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| dandelion_rose wrote: |
| VORTIA wrote: | | You could try to argue that its trying to appeal to lolicon... |
I am absolutely certain now that very few people actually read what I type. |
Your not the only one mate. Problem is I can't tell if it's a genuine disability, or them just trolling for the fun of it. I've never been to 4chan, but I'm getting the feeling it's sort of like this.
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jymmy
Joined: 11 Nov 2011
Posts: 1244
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Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 6:07 pm
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| jl07045 wrote: | | No, you either take the issue serious or you don't. |
Like how every piece of media that criticises war shows it consistently as unnecessary and unglamorous?
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jl07045
Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Posts: 1527
Location: Riga, Latvia
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Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 6:23 pm
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| jymmy wrote: |
| jl07045 wrote: | | No, you either take the issue serious or you don't. |
Like how every piece of media that criticises war shows it consistently as unnecessary and unglamorous? |
Saying that such exploitation exists elsewhere amounts to truism, but not a counter-argument. It sucks that war sells, yes.
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dandelion_rose
Joined: 12 May 2012
Posts: 657
Location: Kuala Lumpur
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Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 6:44 pm
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| Mohawk52 wrote: | | Your not the only one mate. Problem is I can't tell if it's a genuine disability, or them just trolling for the fun of it. I've never been to 4chan, but I'm getting the feeling it's sort of like this. |
I've visited 4chan from time to time, but never pay much attention to /a/. It's exactly because I visit 4chan that I get a bit of a culture shock when I see how defensive moe/loli enthusiasts can be here.
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jymmy
Joined: 11 Nov 2011
Posts: 1244
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Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 7:12 pm
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Well, I wouldn't count myself as an enthusiast, but I refuse to let objectionable content ruin my enjoyment of a series with genuine merits, and furthermore don't believe it by definition should.
| jl07045 wrote: | | It sucks that war sells, yes. |
That's the thing, I don't believe it does. Fantasy is all well and good and I don't think there's a problem with that. I think it's cool and not hypocritical when a show talks about the negative consequences of the subject as well.
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Sunday Silence
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 2047
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Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 8:02 pm
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| dandelion_rose wrote: |
| VORTIA wrote: | | You could try to argue that its trying to appeal to lolicon... |
I am absolutely certain now that very few people actually read what I type. |
Which is sorta ironic given one manga chapter deals with Triella's backstory on how she was a victim of a snuff porn film.
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VORTIA
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Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 941
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Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 8:09 pm
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| dandelion_rose wrote: |
| VORTIA wrote: | | You could try to argue that its trying to appeal to lolicon... |
I am absolutely certain now that very few people actually read what I type. |
| dandelion_rose wrote: | |
but all the appeal of Gunslinger Girl is 'look look, little assassin girls with guns, aren't they cool / cute'. |
?
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jymmy
Joined: 11 Nov 2011
Posts: 1244
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Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 8:32 pm
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Lolicon is more so sexualisation of little girls, whereas dandelion_rose was talking about generic 'cuteness/coolness as selling point'.
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dandelion_rose
Joined: 12 May 2012
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Location: Kuala Lumpur
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Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 8:46 pm
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| jymmy wrote: | | Lolicon is more so sexualisation of little girls, whereas dandelion_rose was talking about generic 'cuteness/coolness as selling point'. |
Yeah, exactly my point. Cool and cute means just that. I don't know where 'sexy' comes in, although I don't doubt it would be popular with loli enthusiasts.
And Vortia, if you read what I said entirely I also literally stated that it was aimed outside of a niche fetish audience.
As for what Sunday Silence said, I didn't read the manga, but it all depends on how the subject matter was handled so I'll reserve my judgment. If you stretch lolicon to include 'anything that has someone underage raped' survivor accounts would be lolicon, which is just screwed up.
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VORTIA
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Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 941
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Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 9:02 pm
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| dandelion_rose wrote: |
| jymmy wrote: | | Lolicon is more so sexualisation of little girls, whereas dandelion_rose was talking about generic 'cuteness/coolness as selling point'. |
Yeah, exactly my point. Cool and cute means just that. I don't know where 'sexy' comes in, although I don't doubt it would be popular with loli enthusiasts.
And Vortia, if you read what I said entirely I also literally stated that it was aimed outside of a niche fetish audience.
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I wasn't entirely tracking what you said, to be honest, because it seemed conflicting. The use of the word "but" and your using it in the context that you avoid shows that seemed to have lolicon vibes all kind of steered my understanding in that direction. Thanks for clarifying.
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