Forum - View topicOpinions on fansubs and HK pirate DVDs (ranting thread)
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pingieking
Posts: 23 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada |
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To me, that pretty much just won the argument. However, winning the argument is not going to stop me down downloading anime, and hopefully you didn't expect it to. I'm all for stamping out fansubs. Why? Because the companies have a legal right to do so. However, it is my own opinion that they will lose sales if they pursue that course of action (several facts and figures have been thrown around earlier in the thread, and so far there's no clear proof that fansub help or hurt sales). It would be great if the companies managed to work out something similar to what iTunes did, and to me that would be the best course of action and would likely bring in massive amounts of $$. Whether or not it is actually possible to do that is something I do not know. Anime is a product under the copyright protection, so there is really no reason that any fansubbing should be going on. With the opinions that I have read so far in this thread, I really think that the so called anti-fansubbers have the upper hand.
I don't think the fansubbers really put much of their own stuff into it at all, and they're not really taking someone's idea. It's more like taking someone's product, adding little bits and pieces of features that were based directly off the product, and then providing it to the masses for free. It would be like writing an research essay, and paraphrasing someone's else's essay the whole time, then cite their work properly and argue that I've written a legit essay. But looking past my ideologies, I guess I am a hypocrite because I do download fansubs without buying any (there are ZERO anime DVDs in my possession) DVDs. However, I am in full support (as long as it's not financial) of getting rid of fansubs, and won't shed a tear when it becomes unavailable. Wandering Knight, I download for reasons very similar to your's. But those reasons are what makes us wrong. It is stealing. Final. If anyone asks why I download all the time without buying, my answer is very simple; because there's nothing to stop me from doing so. |
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Steve Berry
Posts: 522 Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA |
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But 10円, your definition of promotional material is too strident. If the point of promotional material is sell items, a reasonable (although unprovable) logical argument can be made that fansubs can do this. We're treading over ancient, much discussed territory here, but your argument here rests on the concept that all of those shows they've watched 1)they would have purchased anyways, and that 2)they're licensed. To suggest that either is true most or all of the time isn't true, or, at the least, is entirely unprovable, as there's no data.
If we're beyond talking about legality and morality, then the only real argument against fansubs is that they're stopping sales from happening. So far, you haven't proved that at all. Now, if based upon pure conjecture, you'd like to say that most fansub fans are unhonorable greedy people who'll never care to pay for anything, despite everything I just said in my last few posts, and that therefore DVD sales aren't occuring that would have happened if there weren't fansubs-- so be it. Perhaps it is also pure conjecture on my part that I think fansub fans aren't greedy unhonorable people, and that they're not watching fansubs solely because they're free but because they love anime, and that therefore they do buy DVDs of the shows they loved that they watch fansubbed, and that those DVDs they don't buy they never would have bought in the first place. I also think it's very odd that you still think there is no reason a viewer of a fansub would want to buy a DVD of that same show-- as I gave 3 or 4 or 5 good reasons in one of my last few posts tonight, none of which you responded to. If you're going to keep saying the same thing, and not respond to a host of the very clear points I made in response to your post, what's the point in having a discussion?? Obviously, from the forums I go to (both this and others), I feel like it's a pretty darn regular occurence for people to say "This show is awesome, I'm absolutely getting this when it gets licensed." You seem to feel like no one ever says that. I can't argue what you're experience has been-- I can only tell you what mine has been, and what many other people seem to post-- both here and at other places. And, of course, just like this post above mine, there are people who dl fansubs and never buy a thing-- I've never said otherwise. But it just doesn't make sense to me to completely disregard the very obvious evidence to the contrary that's been posted in this thread-- namely, that there are also very many fansub watchers who buy DVDs. Oh, and as you said-- thanks for playing. Last edited by Steve Berry on Sun Feb 11, 2007 10:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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10円
Posts: 605 |
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What on earth are you talking about now? All my means for getting something for free have been taken away, both by the rule of law and by my own conscience. And yet you don't see me breaking into my neighbors homes or cashing in my five finger discount when Walmart isn't watching. Oh man, I'm so glad you're here to help explain your viewpoint in detail. With folks like you and Ohoni representing the pro-fansub side I'm free to just watch and laugh as you inadvertently dismantle any hope of launching a credible defense. Please, do go on, I can barely wait for the next preposterous supposition. |
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Steve Berry
Posts: 522 Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA |
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Attack obvious targets who don't have very strong arguments if you want, 10円, no prob by me, but I'm still waiting for your retort to all of the very clear points I've made over the last 4 posts.
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16941 |
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Seems to me this thread has dissolved into endless flamming and raspberry conests. Anyone have anything NEW to say on the topic? |
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10円
Posts: 605 |
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Nice try, but I don't actually dispute that the vast majority of fansub watchers would probably never buy everything they currently watch for free. We're talking about cheapskates who in many cases have already watched more anime than even someone who makes very good money could easily afford to own legitimately. There is really no way to know what they would or would not buy if fansubs had never existed but it would obviously have to come out of their available discretionary income and many of them could probably never afford to own as much anime as they currently get for free. Thankfully that has surprisingly little to do my core position. True, I do want the industry to keep going strong and making more anime for me to watch, but that's not the primary reason I'm against fansubbing and the piracy it promotes. I'm mainly against fansubbing because expecting luxuries for free is just plain wrong. All the other details are secondary to this basic fact and nothing I've read on here explains how expecting luxuries for free is in any way reasonable or responsible. If the health of the industry was all I cared about then I probably wouldn't have come on here suggesting used DVD's, rentals, television, borrowing, loaning, bargain-bin rummaging and the like to people who currently resort to fansubs. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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No but it is the same merry-go-round we've all been on a million times, so locked it is. |
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