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Hey, Answerman! - Phony Baloney

In a honesty, Rei and Asuka aren't really moe. Well, maybe Rei.

Asuka is merely a sympathetic character. That's not really moe. That's just good writing making a character sympathetic.

As for the common element, I recommend the article I linked a few posts ago (This one). It does a better job of connecting together all these points for you than I feel I could do justice to here.

I've never had much use for the term "moe" but if I had to define it, it would be a very strong attachment to a character I'm fond of. The character his/herself isn't moe. Instead it is a reaction to said character. That's my take on it anyway.

So can moe be applied to a concept outside of Anime? If I watch a mainstream American sitcom, and I develop a strong attachment to one of the adults, does that mean that my relationship with an adult is moe?

krystallinity wrote:

So can moe be applied to a concept outside of Anime? If I watch a mainstream American sitcom, and I develop a strong attachment to one of the adults, does that mean that my relationship with an adult is moe?

Of course you can.

"moe" is something that always existed, it just never really had a name.

Its sorta like Tsundere, the character type has existed for untold centuries, but no one actually bothered to name it until sometime in the early 2000s.

Or for a more physical example, Zettai Ryouiki. Its a well established fact that the combination of tall socks/stockings/boots and a short skirt has been considered "sexy" for quite some time, but no one ever bothered to actually give a name to the phenomenon, until anime fans on the internet.

Timeenforceranubis wrote:

As for the common element, I recommend the article I linked a few posts ago (This one). It does a better job of connecting together all these points for you than I feel I could do justice to here.

I read it, but I'd much rather debate with you than that person. His explanation(s) of moe are different from the one you gave me and you'd need to clarify the matter. I assume this article is where your five types of feelings and emotions come from, but for him those are simply the responses related to "moe" that otaku exhibit. The term itself is something different. It's "a subset of taste" which makes it an aesthetic term instead of a psychological one. But if it is an aesthetic term, wouldn't we need to understand the semiotic code that is at the core of that "subset of taste"? Which would again make this a very subculture word without much use in a casual conversation. Besides the fact remains that there are different meanings of "moe" floating around even if you stand by this as the "correct" one.

P.S. If I sound nonsensical, sorry. It's late here and it's been years since my semiotics classes.

I have never, ever seen moe used as a reference to character devotion in mature video games like Mass Effect, or mature television shows like Star Trek.

Maybe "moe" will evolve into a term used for all devotional relationships to characters, but for now it seems limited, and my point was that some Western fans exploit this limited definition to associate the concept of moe with Western taboos, perpetuating their dislike for it.

krystallinity wrote:

I have never, ever seen moe used as a reference to character devotion in mature video games like Mass Effect, or mature television shows like Star Trek.

Probably because you don't discuss those things with people who have the otaku vocabulary.

To use Mass Effect for an example, Tali is an absolute moe icon, in fact, she's one of the more gratuitously moe characters in quite some time.

On the opposite end, Thane was clearly designed, with malice aforethought, to evoke a moe reaction from the female side of the audience.

krystallinity wrote:

Maybe "moe" will evolve into a term used for all devotional relationships to characters, but for now it seems limited, and my point was that some Western fans exploit this limited definition to associate the concept of moe with Western taboos, perpetuating their dislike for it.

Well, fudge them. Why should I care what they think?

krystallinity wrote:

Maybe "moe" will evolve into a term used for all devotional relationships to characters, but for now it seems limited, and my point was that some Western fans exploit this limited definition to associate the concept of moe with Western taboos, perpetuating their dislike for it.

Well, fudge them. Why should I care what they think?

Nobody hates BioWare because their games are deliberately moe-centric, yet many people hate Anime that is moe-centric.

Do you see the discrepancy here?

krystallinity wrote:

Nobody hates BioWare because their games are deliberately moe-centric, yet many people hate Anime that is moe-centric. Do you see the discrepancy here?

Why am I supposed to care?

Also, I'm guessing that a large part of that is because there are so many OTHER reasons to hate Bioware.

So can moe be applied to a concept outside of Anime? If I watch a mainstream American sitcom, and I develop a strong attachment to one of the adults, does that mean that my relationship with an adult is moe?