Forum - View topicChicks On Anime - Censorship Part 1
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GATSU
Posts: 15349 |
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Not in Viz's case.
Those guys are tame, actually, compared to some of the stuff you see nowadays from people like Uziga. [Access official site at your own peril.]
Sorry, but anyone taking out cigarettes is as fascist as the people who want to tack an R-rating on any movie featuring smoking. It's a reality people have to deal with, plain and simple. I don't like it when Disney does it to their old cartoons, and I don't like when Viz does it to its manga. Also, it's bs to tell me that having a cigarette is as bad as damaging property with a firecracker, unless you think that Columbine's ok; and yes, most of those same idiots do think that it's better for kids to have access to guns than to smoke, which is why some poor bastard blew up his head with an uzi at a gun show a few months ago. I know you can't do anything about the copyrighted stuff, though, because so many people are sue-happy nowadays. Hell, FOX sued fan-sites of its properties, just for effing clips and stills of its shows.
If you think that's just Japan, you've never been a LBGT during the Reagan years. And anyway, considering the conflict over them just getting married, I doubt that the homophobia is going away anytime soon, even if they try to downplay it in media. Look what happened when Jenny Jones tried to turn an innocent gay crush on a straight guy into one of her topics.
Um, they just put the Jazz Singer on DVD and still try to cash in on Song of the South merchandise, even though they don't have the balls to release the latter title on dvd. And nearly half the country had no problem with those racist depictions of Obama. Hell, there's a voodoo monster in Dragon Quest IV which reminds you of that Cartman black-face gag in the South Park movie. Plus, I imagine Benny Hill's own Black-face jokes are in that collection. And really, if those depictions in the manga are still in the anime, I don't see the point. Oh, and have you seen the Boondocks comic strip version of Jar Jar? He ends up being a Black Panther with a Nation of Islam-like name. So I imagine consumers aren't as sensitive to those depictions as they might have been in the past.
If they scream at you for that, ask them why it's ok for Di$ney and WB to release war-time cartoons which weren't exactly flattering of the Japanese. Hell, I still wonder why Japan thinks Violence Jack or Mad Bull is ok, but not a certain episode of Ultra Seven.
What about that song in Team America? I didn't see any gay groups throw a fit over that; but they got really miffed over the use of "fag" in Jay and Silent Bob, even though a lot of the director's work has homosexual undertones. So would they even care about that line in PSME, especially if they consider her character to be immature? Does it even matter, since she's not technically human, anyway?
Then I take it you've never seen Just One of the Guys?
Well, Recca's being released quarterly now, and the nipples got erased from the later volumes, so what gives on that one?
I imagine the reason is we don't have our own Miyazaki-like psycho yet. If we do, then we're f*cked.
They've been a failure, because of idiots like Thompson. But states are still trying. |
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Dragynstorm
Posts: 131 |
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Well, censoring falls under my job description, so reading this and the responses to it is really interesting to me.
Personally, I think censoring is annoying and shouldn't be done. But honestly, I think it may be a necessary part of our current manga industry. Sure, WE may not be offended, but WE only make up a certain small corner of the book-reading market. There are many people out there that will not buy a certain book because it has something that offends them in it. It's sad, but it's true. The manga publishers are definitely filled with manga lovers, but they're also businesses who would like to see the books they put out sell well. If we want to continue to have manga put out in our countries, we may have to buck up and accept some censorship, whether we like it or not. And for companies, it's probably safer to censor than to not censor. Reprinting can be very costly, especially if new printing plates have to be made. Because of the fiasco with the Koran being in the hands of the villain in JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, distribution in Japan has been halted, something that could effect world-wide distribution. It's something that will probably be censored, but if it had been censored in the first place, this problem wouldn't have arisen. (Now who can tell what will cause fiascos like these form day to day, I'm just using the JoJo one as an example...) Jason, thank-you for saying that censored pages are often approved by editors/companies in Japan. I've had discussions with some fans who are all for putting all the "blame" on American companies and do not understand this. Sorry for the long and winding post! |
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LordPrometheus
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Go back and read what I said. I said "AIDS in humans started with gays". Take special note of the "in humans" part. I added that clause specifically because I was aware that the virus originated in chimps, but was first discovered in the gay population. The human strain may or may not have originated with gays, which is why I said I could have chosen my words more carefully. Yeesh, what's with the hostility, Zac? Is a guy not allowed to make a slightly inaccurate choice of words around here without getting blasted?? |
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Panda Man
Posts: 257 Location: North Carolina |
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I was a little angered by your post at first, but I figured out what you meant when you explained. Though I still think the censorship with that was good. As for Zac, sometimes he is alright, sometimes he isn't so it's best to just forget about what he said. |
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Ashen Phoenix
Posts: 2914 |
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I'm very glad someone has brought up the swatstika in this discussion, as I've researched a bit about it after hearing such profound negativity from most people I've spoken to about it. I found this explanation of its many symbolisms, quoted from Wikipedia, to be especially helpful in shedding more light on it than simply branding it as much of the US does as "the symbol of Hitler and the Nazis." Traditionally the swastika has been used as a symbol of good luck, welfare, prosperity or victory. One interpretation of the swastika is derived from the ancient mythological symbolism of Shakti (Devanagari: शक्ति, Shakti) (represented by the vertical line) dancing upon Shiva (Devanagari: शिव, Shiv) (represented by the horizontal line). Philosophically this may be understood as the two aspects of Brahma (Devanagari: ब्रह्म, Brahma): consciousness and energy interacting to give expression to the universe. The circular movement of this cross may be interpreted as the circular movement of the rising kundalini (Devanagari: कुण्डलिनी). If seen as a cross, the four lines emanate from the center to the four cardinal directions, and this is commonly associated with the Sun. Other proposed correspondences are to the visible rotation of the night sky in the Northern Hemisphere around the pole star. .
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar Posts: 16941 |
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Aids in humans more then likely (I can't say definitely since no one can...yet) did NOT start with gays. They were the first to be diagnosed HERE in America but they were not the first ones to have AIDS/HIV. Read this article. |
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ArthurFrDent
Posts: 466 |
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my beef with how all this is being framed is the difference between EDITING and CENSORing.
Traditionally censor is the province of government, editing is the province of the business producing the work. So you may edit to please an audience, but you censor to please everyone, regarless of audience. And then of course is the mushy middle, where you self edit, because you know it won't make it past the censors. This relates to the nipple question. Editing that is from the Japanese to put the work in a specific age qualification, AFAIK. Merely removing the nip doesn't qualify in the US because you are showing everything else uncovered. The difference between letter and spirit of law, I'd presume. So something like OVA Tenchi shows them, GXP not. So the government says "do not cross this line" while the business says: "it won't sell if we cross that line". This is very important because Free Speech is a Government thing, NOT a private one. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." Because of our acceptance of the main law of our country, we extend it generally to our society, but there is nothing to make us do so. So. Most of us say, "if it ain't hurtin' no-one, then? who cares?" But a lot of people will decide they take hurt if it crosses a certain line in their own mind. That is why IMHO, freer thinkers need to make sure we point out personal choice to everyone. Don't just believe in it, shout it from the rooftops, and demand people follow it. Allowing people who are just offended by one small issue dictate the overall complexion of everything causes draconian laws that are usually quite broad. And usually not needed. The individual should decide if they accept or reject, except in extreme cases. Those extreme cases may need legislation, because not everyone will agree, certainly. For my money there is a ton of difference between "all those [insert groupname here] should be killed." and "those [insert groupname] are totally gross, and they have [some disease real or imagined]." The first is certainly hate, the second is in bad taste, and prolly won't sell to that group but shouldn't be cesnsored. If they choose to edit it as a business, well I hope they know their audience. But if you allow somebody with a narrow agenda to lump the first and second comment together, then you can't talk about anything, because it's all off limits. Now the question of the guy in Iowa is a toughy because the law going after him is overly broad, and he's the testcase. Also it points up the difference between what is in IMAGE versus what is in PRINT and the dual nature of the two. Seems like you can write descriptions of most anything, but a picture? That'll get you in jail. |
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Unit 03.5-ish
Posts: 1540 Location: This space for rent |
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So, um, do you work in manga editing? Or, if not what job do you do that requires censorship? Now that you've brought this up I'm just curious on what it is you do, heh. Also, I'm surprised Tenjho Tenge wasn't mentioned because I read that the earlier volumes were bastardized beyond belief, and that was a manga known for bizarre fetish stuff especially in later parts. |
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Zin5ki
Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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Fortunately or not (depending on one's views on the subject) our recent Extreme Pornography law has given hentai the all clear. |
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Unit 03.5-ish
Posts: 1540 Location: This space for rent |
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...so I can sleep better knowing that it's OK to have a folder chock full of lolicon, shotacon, tentacle rape, guro, torture porn, incest, sodomy, and scat porn as long as it's all cartoons? (NOTE I DO NOT HAVE ANY PICTURES LIKE THAT.) |
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konkonsn
Posts: 172 Location: Illinois |
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This is irks me more in a good pornography discussion than anything else. When someone says this:
And then says this:
Just as there is no empirical proof that engaging in pornography incites people towards certain acts, there is also no empirical proof that suggests reading a sexual fantasy prevents those same people from acting out. It's a contradiction to say both because you're basically suggesting that porno doesn't affect people (negatively) at the same time it does (positively). I personally do feel pornography can affect people adversely, but mostly only those who would have problems in the first place (such as people who are already racist or sexist). While there have been no studies on pornography specifically, there are plenty of studies on how portrayls of women in the media adversely affects men and women's perceptions of them. Ignoring the idea that pornography by itself is a way of using someone in a sexual manner without his or her humanity intact, the way women are portrayed in pornography is similar to other negave media. African-Americans are usually put in "jungle" contexts, making them savage and something to be conquered. Asians are submissive dolls ready to please their masters. Women, in general, are submissive, and men are dominate. Every part of the woman is used by the man for sex (women are much more likely to be orally, anally, and vaginally penetrated), whereas the man's sexuality is restricted to his genitals. When you look at how regular media uses similar, but less graphic, gender situations (women being submissive in a kiss instead of in sex) and how people react, it's hard not to speculate that there may be some connection. |
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Dragynstorm
Posts: 131 |
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I do edit manga (I'm a letterer/touch-up artist). And because of that, I'm sort of a bad guy when it comes to censoring, since I am one of the people that actually takes out the blood and nipples and puts the pants on young boys. ;; |
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HikariNinjaX
Posts: 3 |
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Ok, conservative person over here! (as some of you seemed to ask for one). I am in favor of some of the censorship not only in the US but in Mexico too (since publishers and TV channels bring anime and manga directly from the US). Note that I say "some" not "all" of the censorship.
Personally I don´t go around reading manga with explicit sex scenes or with gore or much violence (the most violent manga I´ve heard of is Elfen Lied and I don´t like it and won´t read it). I am also against reading/watching yaoi, yuri and hentai... but I tolerate people who like it. Going back to the censorship issue... I have been watching anime since I was 6 years old, when it was on tv, some of those anime were censored and I think it is perfect that way. Once I saw my three year old cousin watch Shaman King and I freaked out and changed the channel inmediately. It turned out she was searching for another channel and by mistake put the TV on that one, but still watching my little and cute cousin see Len Tao kill some people wasn´t exactly something I expected to be. I know I watch that show and I like it, and that with proper supervision this couldn´t happen, but the parents can´t stay all the time watching TV with their sons (my aunt at that time was in the bathroom). Accidents can happen, and little children might watch something not appropiate for their age. |
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Unit 03.5-ish
Posts: 1540 Location: This space for rent |
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Kinda sucks that you are in a position to be so hated, but let's face facts here -- America is still a very conservative nation that protects its children perhaps too much. Though my views tend to be conservative in most regards, I think kids can handle somewhat more mature content than what we expose them to -- death, violence, and sex are parts of life and Japanese kids don't bat an eye at that stuff on TV. I know we're a very different culture in that regard, but I'm just wondering why we're still so backwards about it. But don't some of the more explicit/questionable titles either get shrink-wrapped or get stamped with a very clear age rating or have a black cover slip? Why don't they just do that more? It works for Playboy and Hustler, so what's the big deal doing it with manga? Why butcher it so much or even release it if you have to change THAT much about it? |
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Seras
Posts: 14 Location: Ottawa |
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one doesn't have to deny it since no one has ever shown your statement to be valid in any way whatsoever. |
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