Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! [2006-06-09]
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SalarymanJoe
 Posts: 468 Location: Atlanta, GA, USA |
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In principle, I agree. I've met guys who weren't too fond of girls making out with each other and I've met girls who didn't like guys making out with each other; to each their own. However, I've been to my fair share of wild parties, and I've never seen a knock-down, drag out fight over two chicks making out as I've seen with the yaoi-fangirl base. In fact, most of the men I've met who're into Yaoi are respectable, decent people and wouldn't be caught dead acting the way these girls do.
I don't think the problem/gripes from other fans is rooted in the fans themselves, or really their age; I have a dislike for these members of the base purely on their actions and how they handle themselves in public (well, cons mostly). I'm a mecha fanboy; I've been for years. I grew up loving Sci-Fi and mecha type shows and they're what got me in and are a driving force in keeping me interested in anime. I own a lot of the books, I build the model kits, and I buy the DVDs in R1 when available. Some might say, this hobby is a little creepy at times. As I mentioned in my response to hanachan01's post, I've seen yaoi fangirls do some pretty, eh, repulsive, things in the name of their fandom. I've yet to see it repeated in my decade of anime fandom in any other anime subculture/fan group. Fights between mecha fans border on the boring and inane; never have I witnessed them ending in fists. I've never seen mecha fanboys pushing each other to the floors so they can get higher dibbs on Master Grade Zeta Gundam Ver. 2. I've never seen anyone in the mecha community brought to tears over someone trashing their favorite mecha series or robot. Mecha fanboys do not run screaming (yes, loud volume tones emitted from thier mouths) through bookstores (well, more like quiet hobby shops) and hotels, no matter thier BAC, about "Master Grade Gyan~!", the "significance of the Macross Valkyrie transformation", or their latest VOTOMS fanfic. And trust me, while many people may think the mecha fanboys are united over Gundam and Macross being the pinnacles, that's not the case. The point I am trying to make here is that it's not the fandom itself we, as "outsiders" I suppose, dislike. It's the behavior. It's not the facination of teen girls over "teh buttsecks", it's the loud and high pitched squealing over it. I've met some yaoi fans who keep it low-key, like everyone else in other subcultures of anime, and they're all decent and respectable people. Yaoi-fangirls would gain so much more respect from other sections of the fanbase if they just acted with some G** D*** sense. (On second thought, I might want to submit a rant on this...)
Kenshin differs a little from most other shounen action anime (like Hokutou no Ken or Naruto) in that much of the fundimentals are based on actual sword practices and play, and then evolve further into fantasy, as opposed to the other way around, which is where I see HnK and Naruto. I cannot remember if Watsuki Nobuhiro himself did Kendo or if he just researched it. With the abundance of material out there for a major high school sport such as Kendo, it's very possible he simply compiled it in with his research. I know Watsuki made minor changes to some of his historical characters, namely Saitou Hajime, about their martial history. Watsuki's Hiden and Kaden research books both cite Saitou's style as Mizoguchi-ha Ittou Ryu, where in actuality, it was Ono-ha Ittou Ryu (like a big brother to Mizoguchi); Watsuki created the technique Gatotsu based on the technique called Hiratsuki from Tennen Rishin Ryu, which was the style of swordsmanship of Kondo Isami, Hijikata Toshizou and Okita Souji, among others. While Zac's answer to the question is much better answer to the question as a whole, I just thought I would add that sometimes a little research goes a long way, too; it does not necessarily mean they are practitioners themselves. |
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kaeru
Posts: 1 |
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The problem I see in this kind of fiction with rape scene is the lack of consequence for this type of action, consequences you don't see in the show. Not necessarily for the agressor, but for the victim. Maybe my example is a little bit far from the main subject, but just take the episode in Great Teacher Onizuka (Live) where Fuyutsuki got nearly raped by a fellow colleage. She was saved, but even after that she continued to work with him. (!) Still now, I can't understand her behaviour. Don't tell me it's because she has a strong mind and she was able to overcome it (if you ever watch the serie, you know it's not the case, it took her a very long time to gain self confidence). Or don't tell me it's because she wanted to preserve harmony (or some other Japanese-related argument). My point is, while enjoying watching this show, I found this episode very "chacking". As said by Hanachan, rape is a terrible crime, and I will add that it's not so inoffensive in a fiction. There is nobody who can be raped one day (or nearly) and acting like everything never happened the other (there is always a extremely bad effect on the victim). What I disagree with is when some shows represent it as a easy way for some caracters to have sexual pleasure. If you're watching it for stress relief, maybe you sould consider the amount and the kind of stress you are struggling with. Do young boys don't need too to be supervised in their choice of anime? Regards, Kaeru |
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Joe Mello
 Posts: 2267 Location: Online Terminal |
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Funny you should mention that. I hate alchohol, too. 
See, the problem with yaoi/yuri/hentai is that you're been beat over the head with it. Just showing unconventional love is not a good excuse to lax on story. |
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Yokata
Posts: 6 Location: Left! No, other left! |
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they're fun, most of the time ^^ i have a friend who's constantly talking about yaoi (but she hasn't seen anything of it, only the shounen ai i lent her)(i dont like yaoi >_<) so technically she's not a yaoi fangirl, but wel... you get the point XD we're talking about it sometimes though. she even wrote 'corn' on my arm. it, like, covered my whole arm. XDD and people who watch this kind of stuff are usually open-minded, i think. i was asking about if she could be bi, and she responded 'i'm an open book'.
do 13 year old REALLY watch sensitive pornograph?? i was watching ai no kusabi a while ago, without knowing what it was, and got bored after 5 minutes. then i decided to watch random scenes, and then.... ehhh o_o (got rid of it) i watched my first shounen ai a year ago, 13 at the time, and liked it ^^ why? not because of boys kissing, wich i found weird at the time, but because it was cute. luuuuuv <3 *is totally the romantic type* (oh, and my english kinda sucks. sorry, ik ben belgisch ;D) |
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Kamon
 Posts: 70 Location: Procrastinating |
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I read Playboy for the articles! |
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GATSU
Posts: 15357 |
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hanachan:
Nothing wrong with porn. It's better than them having access to shotguns and uzis.
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RightWingEpyon
 Posts: 2 Location: Nevada |
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I should be committed for jumping back into this... The people who don't see the difference between the two either watch both and love both or want absolutely nothing to do with either. I've seen Gravitation, Sukisho, Loveless, and Descendants of Darkness, all of which either fall directly into the shonen-ai category or at least hint at it. I don't watch yaoi. I don't feel that explicit sex scenes help move the story along. Most of the time this can actually hurt a story. I've mostly seen this happen in books. The author suddenly thinks "Hey, sex sells!" and the next book you by has so much sex in it you wonder what happened to the story and the character development. I'd rather just have touching romantic scenes, or the knowlege that they did have sex without seeing it. So for those who watch one but not the other, there is a big difference and it is important. |
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SalarymanJoe
Posts: 468 Location: Atlanta, GA, USA |
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I have to agree whole-heartidly. I've been known to enjoy some of the more adult stuff, but this sort of writing/depiction has garnered nothing but disgust from me.
What I think the worst thing is, most likely, it is because of the last thing. Sexual crimes against women aren't prosecuted the same in Japan as they are in the US. In fact, I would wager that most sex crimes in Japan are prosecuted now on similar terms to how they were prosecuted in the US back in the 1960s and earlier. Whether it happened or not, there'd still be more burden of proof on her end than there would be on his to prove his innocense. It's the kind of thing that can and probably would tear the office apart, which would spill over to the students. It sounds stupid, but could entirely be the case. Is it right, like morally and ethically right? No, not with our contemporary thinking of inter-office relationships and thoughts about rape. Japan's different and sometimes, they do things that are just ****ed up like that. |
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Dejiko
 Posts: 276 Location: Holland (between Great Britain and Germany) |
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Not too sure about the manga artists themselves, but I get more and more the feeling that anime studios use existing martial arts scenes for 'inspiration'. Observe: 
I believe the Naruto clip is mirrored, but hey 
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cyrax777
 Posts: 1825 Location: the desert |
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If you ever want a scary moment go to a large anime convention such as Anime Expo and skim some dojins then wait for the herd of rampaging rabid possibly underage fangirls to see the sign next to were your standing that says "Yaoi". I thought I was going to get trampled. it was like a stampeed of people.
nearly as bad as a couple years ago when ADV started chucking stuff from there booth. oh yeah and dont get started on the Yaoi paddles. Last edited by cyrax777 on Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Anime_Freak
 Posts: 420 Location: Oklahoma |
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[quote="Dejiko"]
I believe you're right. What happens in the CB image is the EXACT same thing happening in the Naruto image. |
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PantsGoblin
 SubscriberEncyclopedia Editor  Posts: 2969 Location: L.A. |
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Fixed. As for the comparison... there is also a lot of hentai that only include a few sex scenes and if you were to take them out you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between them and regular anime. Going by the logic that yaoi and shounen-ai are the same thing is also going by the logic that hentai and romance anime are the same thing. I'd be careful with that. |
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MTierce
Posts: 33 |
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I feel compelled to respond to this, since my experience with yaoi is quite similar to Clockwork Butterfly’s. While on one level ferricide's analysis is correct, I think you’ve too quickly dismissed Gravitation’s potential impact. While the show is overtly aimed at teenage girls, and it’s totally understandable why they like it, it does not follow that you have to be a teenage girl to appreciate it. Similarly it many have more meaning for a different audience than it does for the teenage girl audience. It’s been a while since I’ve seen the show, but I have read and own all the manga that’s been released Stateside. The thing about Gravitation that I find interesting is that there are a lot of different ways to approach viewing of it. The most common, surface level is of course the dramatic comedy. Its mostly fluff, with gags to keep it moving and a little angst thrown in for flavor. On another level it’s a story about an inevitable love, two lovers drawn together despite how they actually treat one another. In this respect, it’s very similar to Brokeback Mountain. Looking further, the characters themselves have to deal with difficult issues such as rape, social pressure to have an “acceptable” relationship, obligation to friends and co-workers and so on. While most of us thankfully haven’t been raped, I think a lot of people do carry emotional baggage around with them. Thus these themes are universal and appeal to a large audience. I also disagree that Shuichi is “a girl.” He may be emotional and hyperactive, but overall he doesn’t strike me as feminine. When I look at Shuichi, I see a boy who is passionate; he has a goal and will do whatever is necessary to bring that about, even in the face of people telling him he’s a failure. In this respect I think his character is admirable. As Yuki and Shuichi’s relationship develops we find that Shuichi cares more for Yuki than he does for his band, and he has trouble resolving this conflict. Despite the superficial presentation of the anime, there are real issues that can be looked at, should the viewer care to take to time to think about them. Is Gravitation’s plot realistic? I think not. Is the story of Shuichi’s and Yuki’s relationship realistic? I’m not sure. However even if it’s not realistic, it does resonate with me. As you say it is a “cheesecake love story,“ but it IS a love story, and those are among the most enduring and powerful stories that we tell ourselves. Most of the love stories we tell ourselves are romanticized, but they are no less powerful, and they have no less meaning because of that. |
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Ranma824
 Posts: 456 |
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Aw, why not recommend? 
Please Teacher! is a great love story, and a very good anime. If anything, Please Twins! would be the "guilty pleasure". Not as good as the orginial, but I still enjoyed the heck out of it. As for the rant: Overall, it sounds like another one of those "young whipper-snappers dont appreciate things like we used to" kind of arguments. Actually, it sounds worse; going as far as saying that yaoi fangirls couldn't possibly understand the "deep meaning" of Gravitation; or yaoi in general. The rant also gives a vibe of "Yaoi-fangirls don't deserve to watch yaoi like I do". To me, that just screams Pretentious! You shouldn't have to be gay/bi, or have some "life changing experience" to enjoy OR appreciate yaoi. A majority of yaoi is made for fangirls, to make money. Creators know who their marketing to, and usually know how young girls are going to react (well, maybe not at the crazy con level). You may disagree with how the thousands of fangirls show their fandom, heck I disagree with how crazy they can get. But saying that Your way is the "real" way to connect with the show, and Their way is mindless dribble that don't deserve to watch it, well that just reeks of the highest possible Elitism every concieved. |
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Kamon
Posts: 70 Location: Procrastinating |
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Sorry, I'm not convinced, not in the least. If you think "passionate," "has a goal," and "perserveres despite naysayers" are all aspects of masculinity, I know some feminists who'd like to have a word with you. And I'm not really sure what the rest of the paragraph has to do with proving that Shuichi isn't thoroughly feminine...
Can you name a single aspect of Shuichi's personality that could be considered "masculine?" I'm honestly interested to see if you can. |
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