Forum - View topicEpisode Review: Akame ga KILL!
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DRosencraft
Posts: 666 |
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I coould see the goofiness being a detraction if it was poorly placed, or too dominating of the story when it happens, but for the most part it is very limited, and placed about as well in the story as can be hoped. Having everyone being super serious all the time is completely illogical. No one is like that. That there is an expectation for everyone to be 100% serious simply refelcts the single dimension angle usually taken in anime. Dark subject matter with humor mixed in is part of how dark humor emerges.
I can't see where the sexist or homophobic critique came in. Actaully, I'm pretty sure women outnumber men in this show, occupy every level of power and authority, and I can't recall any suggestion, let alone a sustained one, that any woman in this show was stated or implied as being inferior to men, save the debauchery of villains. As has been stated many times by now, it would seem the biggest strike against this show is the fact that it doens't have some huge pedigree tied to it or some avant art style, like K-la-K did. In fact, thorugout all of K-la-K how many chraracters died, despite the even more over-the-top violence? That it is less cartoonish in this regard should not be a detraction for Akame. AgaK certainly has some faults. The pacing is a little funky at times. The deaths of the protagonists early on are a little flat because a good chunk of the surplus story from the manga that made you like them as characters is breezed through or cut (content that likely would have been derided as filler, mind you). The dynamics of the protagonists and antagonists in terms of the personalities and activities are not wholly unheard of either. Most modern shows tend to portray the protags simply as the less bad option. That they aren't running about in the open and constantly talking about friendship and winning out with dumb luck and plot armor,is only a marginal improvement over the norm, what we should be exepcting as the norm. The fact remains that even without needing a spoiler tag, you can probably guess already that THE M.C isn't going to get killed anytime remotely soon, if at all. I think a show should be judged on the merits of what it is, not what it isn't. If you want a show that's more like Kill la Kill, that's fine. Then go watch it. Don't ask any show that is remotely similar to be a reincarnation of that smae series. Stop obessing on pedigree and labels. Take a show for what it is, and judge it on how well or poorly it manages to execute on the story it's framed as. Don't wish it were some other show. |
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ChibiKangaroo
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Yea this is where I do see a lot of the griping coming from. If this was Kill la Kill season 2 (with all the artsy flair that went with the original), the same people complaining about AgK would probably be proclaiming it as a great triumph of animation. For me, AgK is like KlK but better, because the substance is there and it feels real. I feel concerned about the fact that style seems to be trumping substance with a lot of acclaimed anime these days. |
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PachiPortrait
 Posts: 34 Location: Raleigh, NC |
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Okay, look, here's the thing about Bulat's sexual orientation as I see it.
We are all well-aware that Bulat doesn't actually exhibit many homosexual mannerisms - he is not stereotypically gay beyond a few of the cutesy looks he's given Tatsumi and suggestive words. His primary role is to be a manly man and a big brother figure. We understand that perfectly. What I in particular take issue with is HOW they introduced Bulat's sexuality to the audience. As Tatsumi shakes his hand, Leone casually comments "He's gay," prompting Tatsumi to reel in shock and apprehension. For what other reason was this scene administered in this way than to use the idea of someone being gay as a cheap joke? I don't care if he doesn't ACT like a gay stereotype. The moment you turn someone's sexual orientation into a joke, no matter how small, IT BECOMES OFFENSIVE. For me, it's actually worse that they don't draw attention to it again, because you're left wondering why they bothered to mention it in the first place. If no-one in Night Raid gave a shit about it, Leone wouldn't have mentioned it at all. She only did so to provide a quirky lead-in for an offensive joke. Now before you accuse me of saying it's not okay for Bulat to be gay, that's not what I'm saying at all. The author can make him whatever he wishes. Not being grossly offensive about it is all in how you impart this character detail to the reader/audience. When you tell us "He's gay," only in the context of a bystander feeling uncomfortable at the idea of him being gay, that is tasteless. It is entirely possible to make a gay character not be offensive, and I wish more series worked at this. One of the most recent examples I've seen was in Bodacious Space Pirates. It is revealed that two girls from Marika's class are in love with each other. And how do they tell us this? Not through dialogue. They simply embrace, and the audience is led to understand. Marika shows momentary shock at this, not because "ew, lesbians" but because she was unaware of their relationship. They then NEVER make a big deal out of it again. THAT is how you introduce various sexual orientations in your cast. You impart that information without drawing attention to it. Some men are gay, some women are lesbians, and that's ok. It should be NORMAL. Akame ga Kill gets it right in that Bulat doesn't act like a stereotypical gay. However, the only times it ever mentions his being gay is at the expense of a joke. Not happening very often doesn't absolve it from being tasteless. |
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ChibiKangaroo
Posts: 2941 |
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I agree with you, that when I saw that particular scene, I wondered if the show was going to take Bulat and Tatsumi's relationship down a certain path that I am ALL too familiar with in watching anime. i.e. the Outlaw Star scenario, where a gay stereotype character is repeatedly thrust into scenes as a walking caricature and used as comic relief again and again, as each time the main characters recoil in horror at seeing how outlandish and flamboyant he acts toward them. Countless other anime have followed the Outlaw Star scenario to a T. However, Akame ga Kill! does not follow that scenario, which is why I don't see it as homophobic. Yes, it is true that Tatsumi initially looks frightened of Bulat when he finds out he is gay, and it is played for laughs on that first encounter. However, as they spend more time together, Tatsumi clearly goes through an evolution in his feelings for Bulat. By the time spoiler[Bulat dies, Tatsumi is closer to him than anyone else in Night Raid and sobs as if he just lost his dear family member.] When Bulat first tells him to call him "big brother," you can see that Tatsumi isn't sure about it,spoiler[ but by the end] he really is his big brother. This is a fantastic transformative character arc. I don't understand how you could see it as homophobic. Bulat is introduced as "the gay character," right up front, and then the show's writing goes on to demonstrate how his homosexuality does not define him in the slightest. He is shown to be the most honorable, strong, and brave member of Night Raid, and everyone who I've seen comment on him says that spoiler[his death was a big loss.] I think that the fact that Akame ga Kill! takes on the "gay character" stereotype head-on, addresses the discriminatory aspect of that stereotype, and then has the characters rise above it in such a touching way is a great achievement. Tell me what other anime are addressing the issue in such a comprehensive manner? Point out the other anime that raise the spectre of the gay caricature and then obliterate it in such a conclusive way? Akame ga Kill! is in rare territory. |
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PachiPortrait
Posts: 34 Location: Raleigh, NC |
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I get what you're saying, but I really REALLY do not believe AgK has the level of empathy required to pull off a "rising above homophobia" plotline. Perhaps it's true that Tatsumi 'got used' to Bulat, but I just don't see the amount of depth you're seeing. And I stand by my notion that the information, though upfront, was sloppily delivered and unnecessarily used for an uncomfortable joke. If Tatsumi does go through changes as you say, then he mostly did it off-screen as I can't recall him ever meaningfully reflecting on it and deciding for himself that Bulat being gay was ok. All I saw was that he got used to Bulat's occasional advances. Anyone can get used to something regardless of what prejudice they may or may not hold. Doesn't mean they're deserving of an award for persevering over homophobia. The crux of my point being I do not believe AgK is smart enough to tackle that kind of subplot. I commend it for trying - it's way more than a lot of series will attempt. But I personally found this attempt a failure. Still, I appreciate your fair rebuttal. |
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ChibiKangaroo
Posts: 2941 |
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I won't dispute that the introduction of Bulat as the "gay" character wasn't the best way it could have been done. You are right. But, I don't think that should be held against AgK in this instance because I think the "gay" stereotype issue is still a VERY clumsy topic in anime. You still see these caricatures used routinely in a lot of current/recent top shows, as if a lot of anime producers have a completely tin ear when it comes to this type of discrimination. That being said, I think the fact that the introduction was a bit clumsy just made the character/relationship arc between Tatsumi and Bulat that much more powerful. You might think that Tatsumi just got used to Bulat, but I really strongly disagree. I think the writing and dialogue go out of their way to show that Tatsumi does really come to see Bulat as his "big bro" and has sincere affection for him. He sees him as not only his big bro, but his mentor and ideal. In the most recent episode, spoiler[Tatsumi goes into extra training because he says he just hopes he can live up to the strength and character Bulat had (also in order to wear the armor Bulat wore, which is a whole separate and equally powerful metaphor of Tatsumi quite literally stepping into Bulat's shoes), and he has to be reassured by his teammates that Bulat believed he would reach that goal.] This is a level of admiration that, again, I am pretty sure I have never seen given to a gay character in any anime prior to this one. And as I said, after that initial clumsy introduction, the fact that Bulat is gay is almost never mentioned, as if it is just a normal part of him that fades away into the background. Is it perfect? No, as we've said elsewhere nothing in anime is perfect right now. However, I feel pretty confident in saying that this is the most mature and most forward thinking treatment of a gay character that I have seen in anime, and it's one of the reasons I think AgK is so great. |
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gedata
 Posts: 615 |
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I don't really care much for the whole "it's blending comedy with grimdark" complaint. It . I can get over a little mood whiplash, I just don't find the humor funny or the action to be anything special. Just a severely lukewarm piece of schlock.
Last edited by gedata on Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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tee2330
Posts: 64 |
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Most people just view it as childish trying to make itself look edgy, or most claim to because they saw a review that pointed out flaws that they couldn't see themselves, and had to have a cynical reviewer who picks apart every part of the anime to the bone to find flaws in it, then acts like it's a bad or mediocre anime because they're in the prescience of reviewer snobs, atleast that's how I see it as my friends and some people I know on Facebook saw it and never really noticed or thought any of what the review said, and thought of the show as a dark deconstruction of the shonen genre with unnecessary comedy,
I loved the manga when I first read it and I also loved the anime when I first watched it because of the action, it's hard to disagree with experts, but I do fudge the reviews I give this an A. |
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JacobC
ANN Contributor
 Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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Wait, why are we endlessly debating if Bulat's an offensive stereotype or not? (He is, by the way. Just because they stop making "gay panic" jokes for him after a couple episodes so he can become a complete character spoiler[right before they kill him] doesn't mean the jokes were never made, repeatedly, in the first few episodes.)
But this is a moot point, because after spoiler[Bulat's death], the show IMMEDIATELY introduced two new gay panic joke characters. Two! And this time, they're villains, so it's even worse! I don't care if later they stop making homophobic jokes and it's literally just in their first appearance: it is in their first appearance at least. One character is an effeminate shy dude wrapped in a full bondage-type suit and prances around talking about how shy he is. It's vague enough that I guess you could say it's not really a gay joke. The second guy however? There's no doubt. He compliments the new guy in the group's appearance in an effeminate way, flowers appear behind him, and the new guy goes "uwuuuuuh!" D: EW. That is so bad, you guys. That's awful. And those are the jokes Bulat was introduced with except I think they actually were restrained compared to this new villain's only scene. Surely those two new faces combined with the bazillion cringe-worthy female stereotype characters are enough to say "hey this anime's pretty gross and doesn't really work unless you watch it for literally spectacle and bombast and that's it." Seriously, the show Akame ga Kill! reminds me of most is Future Diary. In both cases, it's hard to stop watching it because of how over-the-top mean, nasty, and stupid it is, but that's about it. I don't know what depth or social commentary people are getting out of the experience. AgK plays like a story written by a nihilistic child or made to pander to nihilistic children, driven by crappy anime stereotypes rolling around in their own self-satisfied knowledge that the world is cruel and awful, and evil people deserve to die, and never being proven otherwise. Of course, the main problem is that AkG's idea of "evil people" is a cartoonish, exaggerated, candy-coated nightmare where bad people are just greedy, fat, and ugly, unless they're cute girls that the show can sexualize and have fun dismembering. The few "people who aren't completely evil" are characterized as almost split-personality "nice and friendly" against "insane smiling murderer." (There are enough of these hoppin' around the show that a bad-guy-side one kills a good-guy-side one in battle.) That's just an insane person. It's not a nuanced character, and none of AkG's characters come anywhere close to being well-written facsimiles of a person. The psychopaths in Black Butler, another schlocky good time returning this season, have more depth than anyone in AkG. It's not a high bar, frankly. There is absolutely zero nuance in any single frame of this entire show. I understand it's one of the otaku darlings of the season because of the manga's popularity, but rallying around its "smart ideas" or "nuanced characters?" I both don't get it and am kinda grossed out. I mean, the conclusion of the newest episode had our "violent dominatrix stereotype" main villain "falling in love" with our hero, and leading him off on a leash so she could rape him. This Is The Kind Of Story We're Talking About Here. I get watching it, because it's sort of continually being gross and weird, and it kills people off frequently which can be fun, but talking about how it's a complex, smart show that should be taken seriously...? I pray no one takes this show seriously. That would result in some warped ideas about humanity and morality, at the very least. Last edited by JacobC on Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Chagen46
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The guy you're talking about spoiler[is married and has a daughter, and is not wearing a bondage suit but a Hazmat suit because he uses a flamethrower as a weapon]. Thank you for showing that you aren't even paying attention to the show, Hope. |
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PachiPortrait
Posts: 34 Location: Raleigh, NC |
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Excellent point - I didn't even consider the two new members of the Jaegers, but it's true - they employ the exact same joke as they are introduced to Wave. He reels in disgust at men giving him somewhat effeminate attention. If that's not insulting in your worldview than I don't know what to tell you, man. Note: I'm speaking to Kangaroo in that last sentence, not you, Hope. I know you get it. |
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PachiPortrait
Posts: 34 Location: Raleigh, NC |
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Not entirely sure what you mean, but I judged AgK first hand with a mind that has a soft spot for schlock anime. As much as the "snob reviewers" as you put it will beat on it, I like Future Diary. Fairly enough that I recognize the menagerie of problems it holds. Complete lack for human decency in execution is something I find fun and engaging without the need for cerebral analysis. It and others of its type are some of my favorite guilty pleasures in anime. Even then, I find AgK to be severely subpar and one of the lowest quality schlock anime I've ever seen. There is no secondhand opinion here - it absolutely is childish trying to be edgy, as you say. The writing is appalling to boot, and the show is littered with stereotypes. And then the gay jokes. Future Diary has a gay character too, but portrayed not nearly as callously. (the dub actually makes that worse, though......throwing in some gay-isms in Akise's dialogue. Damn you, Tatum!) |
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JacobC
ANN Contributor
Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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Wait, I think I found the commentative nuance in Akame ga Kill!
It all makes sense now. All joking aside, I would not be harping on this so hard if it wasn't for the antagonistic attitudes displayed in this thread for days before I decided to respond. People are free to like what they like and always should be. But when y'all come after a staff writer just for having a different opinion by name-calling him, saying he isn't fit to write about the show and is judging it/biased, etc., then we have a problem. Play nice, people. You can disagree with the opinions of others and be civil about it. If you don't like a review, either ignore it, or voice a rebuttal with tact and respect. No bullying allowed. |
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DRosencraft
Posts: 666 |
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With Bulat, the establishment of him as being gay, and Tatsumi's reaction to him at first, is meant to emphasize the growth of the bond between the two. Again, this is more a fault of the pacing of the anime, as the time experience is more elongated in the manga than in the anime, so the ultimate event has more impact. The manga goes into more detail about how Tatsumi initially avoids Bulat and is constantly self-conscious around him, that slowly fading away as he comes to see Bulat as just an awesome role model. This is supposed to play off the fact that Tatsumi is a country hick falling into all of these new experiences. This is somewhat subtle in the anime, again mainly because the pacing doesn't allow for the "filler" that depicts this to be born out. For the last two, you're assuming it has to be some sort of gay joke. Why does it have to be? Your vision of what those two characters are meant to be, or how they will be portrayed, at this point is based on nothing but your own predisposition to viewing any hint of effeminate mannerisms to automatically equate to gay-bashing. This is what I meant in my earlier post; forming a critique and opinion on nothing more than initial appearance and a fear of what might be. The reaction to the bondage guy is specifically because he's walking around in bondage and a gas mask. Gay, straight, it doesn't matter - that's not normal when you're walking into a meeting for what is supposed to be for forming a military unit. Tell me that you'd walk into a meeting at your new job, see someone dressed like that, and not recoil when they approached you. That he acts shyly and speaks softly plays into his specific character later on. Heck, Wave specifically comments he thought he walked in on the guy in charge of torture. The Dr. is another issue, but again, they hardly make fun of him at all. If you want to laugh at him for being effeminate, that speaks more about you as a person and a viewer than it does of the presentation of him as a character, because simply being effeminate is not much to go on by itself if you don't already have a negative view. You shouldn't call someone else naive for not immediately jumping to the gutter just for a passing introduction like that. |
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PachiPortrait
Posts: 34 Location: Raleigh, NC |
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AgK's preschool shlock writing merits have no place using gay stereotype jokes as a method of characterization, that's what I've been saying over and over again. It is attempting to be progressive and utterly fails to connect. The pacing of the anime surely harms that more, but that's small potatoes compared to the real issue here. You're giving a character credit for doing practically nothing. Tatsumi didn't overcome some deep seated prejudice. He got used to Bulat's company. THAT'S IT. They became close through training and spending time together - it has nothing to do with how gay Tatsumi thinks he is. |
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