Forum - View topicCross Ange: Rondo of Angels and Dragons (TV).
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Shadowrun20XX
 Posts: 1935 Location: Vegas |
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It sound pretty good. Gonna have to watch it.
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Yttrbio
 Posts: 3653 |
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I think non-Gundam Sunrise original shows have a tendency to turn everything to 11 without much concern for whether it's appropriate. I typically credit Taniguchi Goro (probably unfairly) for keeping Code Geass sufficiently well-managed that it was ridiculous in an enjoyable way (at least for one season), which then got followed by Guilty Crown which was... not. A lot of times when I watch a Sunrise show I get the impression the creators are being dragged about by a cultural "cookbook" of sorts telling them what should go where, and the project as a whole tends to rattle apart because there isn't much central vision about it. In that sense, Cross Ange absolutely reminds me of other Sunrise works, even if it doesn't match up in a plot or aesthetic sense. I definitely walk away from Sunrise episodes a bit queasy on a regular basis, and this one probably takes the cake.
The comparison that's currently strongest in my head, from that first episode's character arc and the preview's impression of where they're taking it, is Strain, which also had a spectacular fall from grace, and learning to live among the "normals" who don't much care for the main character, her origins, or her attitude. I'm a little sad about the music. Shikata Akiko is one of my favorite composers, and I was really excited to see her get into doing background music for an anime. Even if her music is perhaps more interesting than it is good, the slightly-twisted chanting style is really appropriate for the show. I'm sad, though, because no one is going to care due to... other concerns, and I kind of doubt this will turn into more work for her. |
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Vaisaga
 Posts: 13230 |
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Guilty Crown was Production IG, not Sunrise.
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nightjuan
 Posts: 1473 |
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To be completely honest right from the start, I am not going to stick around for the long run with this show.
I didn't find the episode to be interesting enough and I also actively dislike what happened at the end. That should be enough to make clear how I feel about the most controversial topic involving the first episode of Cross Ange and its ramifications. I will not discuss the scene in question any more than that.
I disagree with that, both in terms of your general conclusions, many of the specific details or descriptions and even the issues that are ultimately more subjective than anything else. I do happen to observe that, curiously enough, the few differences you have so grudgingly acknowledged between the two series essentially tend to help dismantle the very bases for your own point, at least when examined carefully. Even the superficially similar elements, such as the bombastic speeches and the blatant issues of discrimination, are not treated identically. For a start, I find a lot of small and large directorial choices to be strikingly different when comparing the first episode of Code Geass to Cross Ange or, for that matter, to Valvrave as well. In that sense, I tend to share Yttrbio's point of view, but I also think crediting the director is far from unfair. Taniguchi made a lot of contributions to both the style and contents of the show that are missing when you take him out (a few of which are not too relevant to this current discussion though). Even the way the speeches are delivered and framed isn't a match, which is reflected in how the scenes are intercut and edited. The flamboyant aspect and over-the-top nature you're casually bringing up is, in essence, part of a set of theatrical mechanisms that emphasize and shift the tone, both for comedy and for drama. Cross Ange has a mix of jokes and tragedies too, that idea is shared, but they are not presented using the same tools. In terms of characterization, I realize there are certainly some people who find Lelouch to be unlikable, period, but there are nuances to his personality and behavior even in the first episode, beyond merely showing an evil smile. To a lesser extent, the same can apply to Suzaku and other characters as well. Dismissing all that because, sure, there are obviously evil Britannian forces killing people....isn't a convincing position in my eyes. That isn't to say it we can't relate the two series in other applicable ways, as part of an overarching "melodramatic fantasy mecha" sub-genre or something to that effect. I believe that is a valid argument and one could indeed group them as belonging to a certain "school of thought" within Sunrise despite numerous staff differences. But each branch of the "school" has its own quirks and touches, for better or for worse. To state these are all "one and the same" does not accurately reflect the facts, upon closer inspection. Your own feelings towards them might be comparable in a sense, that I can see, but neither the material nor its presentation are wholly equivalent. Last edited by nightjuan on Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:55 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Yttrbio
Posts: 3653 |
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Vaisaga
Posts: 13230 |
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Well Geass, Guilty Crown, and Valvrave share a writer, which is why you can find similarities. He's not involved in this show, though.
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nightjuan
Posts: 1473 |
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Precisely, but the fact they share a writer and not a director is one of the main explanations for their differences or, in my opinion, subsequently lower quality. Directors are usually not creatively irrelevant, unless that's what they have chosen to be. Even Taniguchi himself said, years ago, that mixing the same ingredients will not always produce the same results. Reasonably enough, he has not worked on any of the "copycat" series listed, and his next TV project is totally unrelated. The staff working on Cross Ange seems to consist of folks who aren't too high profile, outside of Mitsuo Fukuda, with the writer in particular playing a secondary role within the My-Otome property, which seems to have a clearer influence in terms of some of the content involved here. |
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Vaisaga
Posts: 13230 |
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Fukuda's not even directing this show, but of course any percieved problems are all his fault. He gets a lot of undeserved flack just because he worked on SEED and Destiny (neither of which are as terrible as people say they are), despite him having other good titles under his belt (Dendoh was awesome). I blame executive mettling and his wife for Destiny's problems anyways.
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nightjuan
Posts: 1473 |
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Personally I don't know what he is specifically doing here, thanks to his participation coming through the nebulous title of "Creative Procuder" that can simultaneously mean anything and nothing. But he is still the name that people will know and remember the most. I am not including my views on his previous work within my opinion of this show. One way or another, his presence still implies a level of co-responsibility that cannot be accurately determined, but the resulting problems are not restricted to his role. |
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HaruhiToy
 Posts: 4118 |
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It was the princess, and her mother and father that betrayed the family by hiding Ange's status and attempting to install her as a ruler. There will be no counter-inssurection. Not even Ange's devoted classmates would support it. Maybe the maid would. I was curious about the officer of the prison who could use mana but seems perfectly OK with taking orders from the boss Norma. She was obviously uncomfortable with the rape but used her ability to assist anyway. How did she land in that gig anyway? As for the "examination" itself it is hard to imagine what they would be looking for in there. My take is it was just a initiation ritual of domination, nothing else. |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23876 |
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Not that it was clear just from the episode itself, but I think I saw someone indicate that what was actually happening there was something was being attached to her spine - ergo, the electrical discharge we saw. If true, presumably this is something needed to ride But yeah, emotively, the show was going for, "Welcome to Hell! Hope you enjoy your stay."
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getchman
He started it Posts: 9122 Location: Bedford, NH |
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I'm assuming it's that red device attached to her suit right around her tailbone at about 1 min 17 seconds in. however, that would seem like it would need to be a proper medial procedure in a properly equipped lab rather than a rough cavity check in a dark dank dungeon
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23876 |
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What? You've never heard of back alley tail bone electrode implanters?
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HaruhiToy
Posts: 4118 |
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I would like anyone anywhere any time to come up with one realistic depiction of medical science in any anime anywhere any time. It doesn't happen. It isn't in the culture. The plot would fall apart. There is a law against it. If they did it it would be censored. Idols careers would end. The otaku would rebel. Key would write a D- review. It does seem we (who am I kidding I mean me) were successfully trolled to some extent. Looking back at the narrated epilog: "all those terrible things they did to the princess!" make it pretty clear it was a procedure that was manipulated to look like a yuri butt-rape when it was something else. What kind of "sold" me at the time was the clear aversion the non-Norma officer present exhibited before the act. On to military training. Where's Sosuke Sagara when you need him anyway? |
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Yttrbio
Posts: 3653 |
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Or... both. I mean, why can't they happen in sequence?
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