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ichido reichan wrote:

I won't call this a spoiler because all the endings are the same:

Yeah especially Maison Ikkoku where they... oh wait, that one was resolved pretty much.

Admittedly Maison Ikkoku is more of an exception, but it isn't quite right to say that none of he series wrap up.

-t

Steroid wrote:

it's more progressive in terms of its sex and violence,

I wouldn't call Japan "progressive" when it comes to sex.

Japan has one (if not the) highest disparity between the average salaries for men and women in the first world, I've heard it said that it is the world's largest creator of child pornography (but the person making the statement didn't specify if it was live or virtual porn), women still face sexual harassment in the workplace, and etc...

I hope what you meant to say is that Japan is less restrictive in terms of what can be shown on TV, which is true. But progressive? Nope.

-t

Cowboy Cadenza wrote:

I like what you said on the anime companies not being evil, and always have.

I was talking to a friend about the announcement that ADV has acquired Chevalier D'Eon. He says he would have bought the domestic release had someone other than ADV (or 4Kids, as hilarious as that might have been) had licensed it because of the dubs ADV typically produces. Though I'm really not a huge fan of ADV dubs either, I'm going to buy it because I like the show. It's not like they're trying to make the dub bad or something.

Point is, support the domestic release, because believe it or not, these companies need the profit. And they aren't evil.

I don't even know if this was at all relevant. I...felt like saying it.

One thing I will say in response to this is that, while I personally have a reasonably extensive (and continually growing) collection of anime DVDs, and definitely believe in supporting the industry, people (like your friend, in this case), should never feel absolutely obligated to purchase goods they honestly feel are unacceptably inadequate. This doesn't mean that you should feel you have a license to go into 'I have fansubs, and, um, dubs suck so I'm not buying them lolz' mode, but rather, just because you like One Piece doesn't mean you should feel obligated to purchase 4Kids' DVDs if you feel (in this case, know) it is an inferior product. Support the industry all you can, but don't blindy give them money if you really feel you're getting a handful of feces in return.

Re: FFXII, I just got my copy, although I haven't yet cracked it open for a couple of reasons. One, I already have 5 other PS2 games to play through, and two, I'm not yet sure if I want to order the collector's edition and send this copy back. Does anyone here have the collector's edition and wish to comment on what they think about it?

Last edited by minakichan on Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:18 am; edited 1 time in total

Quote:

It's pretty simple; in most cases, the whole reason they even have OP and ED themes is to promote a band or a single or an album, especially when the show is a long-running series based on a popular manga, like Fullmetal Alchemist or Naruto.

Erm... or, you know, that uh... the openings and endings get old? I mean, if Pokemon was still on Mesaze Pokemon Master, I think I would totally hurl. At any rate, to say that songs change for bands/singles/albums promotion is a somewhat faulty generalization-- many openings and endings are created specifically for the anime, by seiyuu or non-album-releasing studio musicians, though granted, this mostly applies for younger children's anime.

Quote:

My question is this: Why does anime get away with wholesale racism and other downright disgusting portrayals of westerners?
Or more specifically: is anyone else addressing this in a constructive forum that will allow for better mutual understanding?... (I myself am an American and a soldier and have had the privilege of working with both the Brits and the JSDF in Iraq. I found them to be amiable company but just as rough and foul-mouthed as the rest of us (especially the Brits Smile

)

Um, all right... I'm an Asian. Why does American media get away with wholesale racism and other downright disgusting portrayals of minorities?

Sure, homogeneity gives Japanese society a different perspective on racial differences. I'd have to argue, however, that it's pretty Western-o-centric to assume that this "downright disgusting portrayal" is definitive, typical, or exceptionally prevalent in Japanese media. There's plenty of similar "racist" portrayal on American television-- stereotypes of Hispanics, African-Americans, and Asians abound. I'd almost venture to say that some Japanese media glorifies Westerners to such a great extent that Western media has no similar counterpart. (Why else are so many shoujo manga bishounen half-European? Why does Engrish pervade so many Japanese pop songs?) For every stereotypical American soldier and "Hating Things South Korean," I would say there are no less American counterparts and no less Japanese appreciation of foreign--and Western-- culture.

About Inuyasha, I simply don't understand why people are getting all pissy at Rumiko Takahashi for how the anime 'ended'. Sure, she wrote the manga, but does she write the scripts for the anime too?

Also, I don't think of episode 166-67 as a final ending, more like a season wrap up. If I were to judge it as a final ending, then I too would agree that it was a lousy end. However, the manga continues beyond that point, so I will judge it for what it really is.

Last edited by ArielTsuki on Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:57 am; edited 2 times in total

tempest wrote:

Steroid wrote:

it's more progressive in terms of its sex and violence,

I wouldn't call Japan "progressive" when it comes to sex.

Japan has one (if not the) highest disparity between the average salaries for men and women in the first world, I've heard it said that it is the world's largest creator of child pornography (but the person making the statement didn't specify if it was live or virtual porn), women still face sexual harassment in the workplace, and etc...

I hope what you meant to say is that Japan is less restrictive in terms of what can be shown on TV, which is true. But progressive? Nope.

-t

I don't think the poster meant sex as sex being either male or female, but sexual behavior and acts.

But many fans tend to forget that most of the more "racier" anime are usually aired on satellite subscription channel in Japan. However, they are sort of leninent on nudity in cartoons (to my knowledge, this doesn't apply to live action shows) than America. When it comes to showing more mature themes in anime, yes, they are more progressive than America.

However, they are less progressive than America in equality between the sexes. Women are still considered secondary to men and expected to be housewives and such after marriage. While even in America, it's still expected but it is not socially enforced as much as Japan. However, both countries have the stigma of a career woman working past her prime, Japan moreso than Americans. But this is changing for Japan slowly though.

Also for the Rumiko Takahashi discussion. People, stop thinking she's responsible for how the anime ended like it did. People forget that manga-ka are usually NOT INVOLVED with the production of the anime and such. So it's the STUDIO's fault, not Takahashi-sensei.

And open endings aren't bad. Geez, people, it just isn't. How it is written can be bad, the the concept of the open ending is a good thing to use sometimes.

For example of Ranma 1/2, it would've been bad if they said confessed their love and got married. First of all, they're too young to be married, even in the time frame they ere living in (which I assume around the late 80's, early 90's), and they're still discovering their feelings for each other. And like someone said, it's a episodic series (although they do have small arcs here and there). I thought the situation of their romantic rivals interfering with their wedding was the most realistic response in according how the Ranma world works. I don't necessarily think it's an open ending without anything happened. Ranma DID let Akane know an inkling of his feelings for her. Though it has an open ending, you know that their relationship has changed as they move on to this new stage in their lives.

But most conclusive endings tend to suck anyways. An open ending is more likely to satisfy more readers anyway...

The only beef I have with Takahashi-sensei is that her stories are entirely too long. Ranma would've work with half the volumes so would Inu Yasha. It's not like there's much plot in the chapters anyway.

Last edited by Iritscen on Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:30 pm; edited 1 time in total

Calling the ability to show more violence or nudity "progressive" makes me fear for the future and hope that people like Steroid won't be in any position of importance.

It's like calling something "mature" because it has content that kids shouldn't see. I, for one, would not call a show like "South Park", or some Adult Swim shows, mature even if their content is meant for adults. But don't get me started on this.

On-topic, it's pretty clear that we all have our own opinions on how much of the anime/manga should be translated. I'm very much in favor of non-translation of anything even slightly difficult to express in English (like honorifics) or which sounds silly in English (Kenshin's attacks, for example, sound so much cooler when shouted in Japanese). But I guess we just have to agree to disagree with fans who like everything in English.

Off-topic again, I also would like to know what the collector's edition of FFXII is going to do for me if I get it.

Edit: Oops, pretty big diff between should and should not.

Omega13 wrote:

Cowboy Cadenza wrote:

I like what you said on the anime companies not being evil, and always have.

I was talking to a friend about the announcement that ADV has acquired Chevalier D'Eon. He says he would have bought the domestic release had someone other than ADV (or 4Kids, as hilarious as that might have been) had licensed it because of the dubs ADV typically produces. Though I'm really not a huge fan of ADV dubs either, I'm going to buy it because I like the show. It's not like they're trying to make the dub bad or something.

Point is, support the domestic release, because believe it or not, these companies need the profit. And they aren't evil.

I don't even know if this was at all relevant. I...felt like saying it.

One thing I will say in response to this is that, while I personally have a reasonably extensive (and continually growing) collection of anime DVDs, and definitely believe in supporting the industry, people (like your friend, in this case), should never feel absolutely obligated to purchase goods they honestly feel are unacceptably inadequate. This doesn't mean that you should feel you have a license to go into 'I have fansubs, and, um, dubs suck so I'm not buying them lolz' mode, but rather, just because you like One Piece doesn't mean you should feel obligated to purchase 4Kids' DVDs if you feel (in this case, know) it is an inferior product. Support the industry all you can, but don't blindy give them money if you really feel you're getting a handful of feces in return.

Well, of course. However, I have no reason to believe that ADV is going to completely butcher Chevalier D'Eon. Give it a bad dub, maybe, but that's not really an excuse not to buy a DVD. It's pretty tiring hearing fans complaining that Company X "completely butchered" their anime when all that's wrong with it is that it got a mediocre (or worse) dub. As long as there is an uncut subtitled version on the DVDs (and the number of anime that don't get such treatment nowadays are completely in the minority), I see no reason not to buy them if you love the show.

Iritscen wrote:

Calling the ability to show more violence or nudity "progressive" makes me fear for the future and hope that people like Steroid won't be in any position of importance.

It's like calling something "mature" because it has content that kids should see. I, for one, would not call a show like "South Park", or some Adult Swim shows, mature even if their content is meant for adults. But don't get me started on this.

On-topic, it's pretty clear that we all have our own opinions on how much of the anime/manga should be translated. I'm very much in favor of non-translation of anything even slightly difficult to express in English (like honorifics) or which sounds silly in English (Kenshin's attacks, for example, sound so much cooler when shouted in Japanese). But I guess we just have to agree to disagree with fans who like everything in English.

Off-topic again, I also would like to know what the collector's edition of FFXII is going to do for me if I get it.

hHehehe. Kenshin.
"I wonder how this will translate, that I do"
WIth translations, I don't mind if they tuck a few things here and there, due to cultural differences. I WOULD like to see them have some sort of cultural note, though, explaining what was changed, or how it was in Japanese. Del-Ray's manga releases are wonderful at this, and I love them for it.

And FFXII CE has a metal case, and the bonus DVD in it has Developer Interviews, Art Gallery, US & Japanese Trailers, and a History of Final Fantasy Featurettes. Haven't watched any yet, but I'll PM you when I do to give you an idea of what they are to decide if it's worth the extra $10.

...in america!

Last edited by Iritscen on Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

Fans who think their favorite anime was "butchered" should be forced to sit and listen to Crest of the Stars in English, or to see the "re-versioning" of the early DBZ ep.s under Saban or 4Kids' One Piece. Few other shows come close to such mis-handling.

That racism question was a really interesting one.

I'll admit I haven't seen the GITS that was referenced.
Although, to be fair, no one can honestly say that American soldier/war movies portray foreign soldiers in an entirely fair light either. Generally, the Americans are, in American entertainment, the ones to save the day, regardless of how badly "the foreigners" screw things up.

And at the risk of being labelled anti-American (which I am not), the fact that SAC was made just within the last few years may have contributed to that particular portrayal of American soldiers as well. It's a fact that much of the world in recent years has felt the current American government are a bunch of "inept buffoons." And unfortunately at times that opinion seems to become blurred onto America as a whole and especially its soldiers (who are on the front lines of the major issue that has caused people to feel this way about their government). It's not fair but that seems to be the way for some people.

Was it in the ROD OVA that the Americans are really really dumb? I loved that, just for the subversiveness of it.

For the most part, I only sense respect for the Americans in anime. Japan kow-tows so much to us it makes me sad sometimes.

Last edited by Omega13 on Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:33 pm; edited 2 times in total

Iritscen wrote:

Was it in the ROD OVA that the Americans are really really dumb? I loved that, just for the subversiveness of it.

Not really the Americans as a whole, but President Cole was depicted as a blubbering coward who had a tendency to piss himself when things didn't go as expected.

Cowboy Cadenza wrote:

Omega13 wrote:

Cowboy Cadenza wrote:

I like what you said on the anime companies not being evil, and always have.

I was talking to a friend about the announcement that ADV has acquired Chevalier D'Eon. He says he would have bought the domestic release had someone other than ADV (or 4Kids, as hilarious as that might have been) had licensed it because of the dubs ADV typically produces. Though I'm really not a huge fan of ADV dubs either, I'm going to buy it because I like the show. It's not like they're trying to make the dub bad or something.

Point is, support the domestic release, because believe it or not, these companies need the profit. And they aren't evil.

I don't even know if this was at all relevant. I...felt like saying it.

One thing I will say in response to this is that, while I personally have a reasonably extensive (and continually growing) collection of anime DVDs, and definitely believe in supporting the industry, people (like your friend, in this case), should never feel absolutely obligated to purchase goods they honestly feel are unacceptably inadequate. This doesn't mean that you should feel you have a license to go into 'I have fansubs, and, um, dubs suck so I'm not buying them lolz' mode, but rather, just because you like One Piece doesn't mean you should feel obligated to purchase 4Kids' DVDs if you feel (in this case, know) it is an inferior product. Support the industry all you can, but don't blindy give them money if you really feel you're getting a handful of feces in return.

Well, of course. However, I have no reason to believe that ADV is going to completely butcher Chevalier D'Eon. Give it a bad dub, maybe, but that's not really an excuse not to buy a DVD. It's pretty tiring hearing fans complaining that Company X "completely butchered" their anime when all that's wrong with it is that it got a mediocre (or worse) dub. As long as there is an uncut subtitled version on the DVDs (and the number of anime that don't get such treatment nowadays are completely in the minority), I see no reason not to buy them if you love the show.

I also agree that a bad dub it not sufficient reason to pass on purchasing a DVD (unless it is the odd DVD out there that is dub only). And yes, although it might have seemed that I was implying otherwise, the number of DVDs that have been substantially butchered is quite low in relation to the whole. However, there are times when there are playback errors, typos/grammatical errors in the subtitles, or other preventable problems that are not attributed to personal taste (as 'bad' dubs are), and it's completely warranted to not purchase the DVD in response to poor quality, when that lack of quality is objective, IMHO.

I should amend my statement, given that it assumes that everyone prefers anime with subtitles. If you prefer subtitles, then a 'bad' dub track should not be a reason to preclude purchasing that title. If, however, you are strictly dub-only, then a truly bad dub can be just as much of a detraction as subtitle typos and bad grammar can be, so I would understand it in this case. But yea, watch anime in Japanese with subs (if needed)! Anime smile

tempest wrote:

...I've heard it said that it is the world's largest creator of child pornography (but the person making the statement didn't specify if it was live or virtual porn)...

Also, don't forget that restrictions on live-action child porn were only created in 1999.
I wouldn't call that "progressive" either.

Lyrai wrote:

And FFXII CE has a metal case, and the bonus DVD in it has Developer Interviews, Art Gallery, US & Japanese Trailers, and a History of Final Fantasy Featurettes. Haven't watched any yet, but I'll PM you when I do to give you an idea of what they are to decide if it's worth the extra $10.

Cool. Thanks.

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