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Durarara!!×2 (TV).


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justsomeaccount



Joined: 24 Oct 2014
Posts: 471
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:16 am Reply with quote
^ I hope later they can dedicate more time to her and these are just "the hints you are not supossed to be invested to yet", it's just the presentation is so "let's introduce quickly this character" that I still feel like this, like we should care more about her. I hope I'm wrong though, but from these episode that's all I got so far.
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Iron Maw



Joined: 29 May 2008
Posts: 492
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:22 am Reply with quote
meiam wrote:
The change of pacing might be more due to the fact that this season essentially lack a main character, there's nothing grounding the story, no central point we can link event/character too. Ryuugamine worked well as an audience insert character, but he's practically non existent in this series. At the same time were being introduced to dozen of new character in few episodes along with a bunch of flash back and time rewind.


DRRR!! never had main character.

Even Narita has gone record and stated this years ago. Every character has his or their agenda that contributes to an intertwined plot. Celty search for her head had nothing to Mikado being in the Dollars or the Slasher until later. Just as Celty's search for her stolen money had nothing to do with Hollywood, Kasuka or the Foreign mercenary until now.

Whether they are minor characters or not doesn't mean jack here. Any character can be important or not depend on the situation because everyone has their own story. This is fundamental thing

justsomeaccount wrote:

You saw a lot of little scenes of Shizuo before they tell his backstory. Same with Celty. Same with Anri. Even those expositions are much more interestingly put together than "this new character you never heard about is A, does B, happened because of C despite D".


No you didn't, especially for either Anri or Celty. You didn't put anything together, because everything about them was told in 5 minutes. The mystery of the first season was how everyone was connected to this plot web and less who they are.

How Ruri's reveal and past was handle the same manner nearly every other character and it was fine. it Told what you need to know about her just as Celty did which drawing the whole out any longer than it needed. Hell you even got a hin t about her fascination with monster from all the masks she wore during her killings in same \way you got about Celty being a dullahan with the rumors about her.. If you don't take any interest in her regardless then that's too bad. There were don't care about Celty ,Anri and Shizuo after learning more about their characters either.

Quote:
"My line" "Your line" is basically a formulaic conversation where right after one character says his/her line the other one continues right after, no movement, no certain pauses to set up emtoions of characters depending of what they are saying in certain parts of the conversation, anything. Which can work in some conversations, but in a scene meant to be more instropective and giving us the thoughts and connection of those two characters, when it's played this auto-pilot you don't know if you actually should care. After all that talk I was "meh" and when Ruri starts crying was weird, the scene wasn't building to that and I still didn't care.


No I still don't get what you going on about. To begin with half conversation is just Ruri interrogating Kasuka to find out why he helped her hence why just he mainly responding (aside from his emotionless disposition which is displaying his "gasp" quirk lke everyone else). Second Ruri doesn't display much emotion outwardly during that scene because she is keeping her cold facade of a ruthless serial killer in hopes put fear in Kasuka and keep her advantage. We get plenty of her only thoughts which are contrary to her actions because she is an internal character.

If anything you seemed to not noticed any of the details about either Kasuka or Ruri that profess otherwise you have noticed that one is trying to be emotionless and while the other actual is.
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justsomeaccount



Joined: 24 Oct 2014
Posts: 471
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:27 am Reply with quote
Iron Maw wrote:
No you didn't, especially for either Anri or Celty. You didn't put anything together, because everything about them was told in 5 minutes. The mystery of the first season was how everyone was connected to this plot web and less who they are.

Eh? The first season, especially the first half, was characters over plot clearly definitely. The plot of the first half technically doesn't start until episode 9 (when Celty finds Mika), and the only part of "the plot tickens~~" is episode 6 with Kadota's team about the kidnappers. The rest is just characters introduced and bouncing off each other (4 Celty and Shinra, 7 Shizuo, 8 Celty and others, etc.). In fact, some people who don't resonate with the kind of characters the show has (I think Zac in the podcasts for example?) are bored quickly because of that.

Scenes of Celty? Episode 1, she is described as a dullahan by other characters (the chat and Kida to Mikado) and we see her saving a girl from some kidnappers, her powers and supernatural nature. Episode 2, she saves the girl from killing herself and she actually encourages her to live ("The world is not as cruel as you think it is"). She even has a scene where she interrogates Izaya of doing the same thing with others, which already sets up part of her personality and 'humanity'. Episode 3, she barely is in it but she talks a little with Shizuo, but it reminds you of her presence. Episode 4 (mainly about her), Shinra records the opinion of other people, we see them interact in the house and opining about different things, and THEN we see her backstory. And even then the episode shows interactions about her daily life, looking for her head, Shinra, etc.

You see the difference? The character is introduced with little scenes that set up the character in your mind, and when you have it defined enough, they tell her backstory and we learn about her. And we had all that because they showed the character. This season is doing the same with Aoba, if he has a backstory or something later (I don't know) we've seen some scenes of him doing stuff that makes us familiar enough with him. It's like being with a bunch of people, talking a little with them or seeing them at distance and knowing how they are, and then in some moment somebody tell their backstory. Ruri was like if suddenly you are on the street and somebody you don't know comes like "hey I'm called Ruri I'm an idol I'm an assassin obssesive with monsters I have a twisted definition of love, I cannot kill some people and seeing this unfeeling monster person makes me feel bad of being me the same, hello by the way". I don't even know who you were 5 seconds ago, can you calm down before telling me so many important stuff about you?

Quote:
No I still don't get what you going on about. To begin with half conversation is just Ruri interrogating Kasuka to find out why he helped her hence why just he mainly responding (aside from his emotionless disposition which is displaying his "gasp" quirk lke everyone else). Second Ruri doesn't display much emotion outwardly during that scene because she is keeping her cold facade of a ruthless serial killer in hopes put fear in Kasuka and keep her advantage. We get plenty of her only thoughts which are contrary to her actions because she is an internal character.

If anything you seemed to not noticed any of the details about either Kasuka or Ruri that profess otherwise you have noticed that one is trying to be emotionless and while the other actual is.

The characters are cold in that scene, that's clear, but the framing of that scene also was, like "don't worry, it's not an intense scene, they're just talking about stuff", and it wasn't supposed to. When you set up characters this explicitly, even when they are cold, you want the audience to feel a little about them. I wanted to feel weird when Kasuka said all that because I liked him in the first season. And just transcribing their lines without any different rythm or pacing looks like it's not an important scene, just something to see normally, which doesn't fit because they are defining both important character traits, and when Ruri cries we are supposed to care a little. We get why she does it, we don't get why the scene is done so simple and "don't worry audience".

It's hard to explain when you don't have other scenes to compare and this is visual subtetly. But if I had to put an example, I would put Inspector Lunge from Monster. He is a cold unfeeling man obsessed with his work and that's how he acts, but their scenes are not quick "blablabla next thing" and that's it, they have a proper pacing depending of what's he saying or doing. spoiler[In one scene, he agrees via phone with his daughter to meet after a long time. But when he also has an opportunity to meet with other person related with his job, he doesn't think much to choose the latter in his own apathetic way.] Even if the character doesn't care, the show does and wants us to care, and the angles and pacing enfatize those scenes. And he's one of the most popular characters of the show. spoiler[In that case, the scene wasn't a fast "ok I go to the meeting with that person" *fast cut to there*, it put the right seconds to enfatize how he is.]

I know it sounds nitpicky and too much going through details, but that attention to detail is what can change if you are invested in the scene or not. And in this case I noticed it and "so that's why I'm not caring about this scene". I don't want to feel "eh" during all the show because of that, I want it to recover.

Edit: Jesus, I have to learn to not make such long paragraphs and compress what I said better, sorry o_O
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Iron Maw



Joined: 29 May 2008
Posts: 492
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:35 am Reply with quote
justsomeaccount wrote:
You see the difference?


No I still don't because we already know about Ruri before the the reveal in roughly the same manner as Celty, Anri and Shizuo, before we got into they true identity and past. She only just had much less screentime then they did. She was already established as a popular idol S1 just as Celty was rumor to be a scary headless rider before we learned what they were like. She just didn't play big yet until now. The twist with her being Hollywood is supposed to be a surprise because she is not somebody anyone would expect. Now we know there more to her than just being a pretty face and this episode some time understand who she really is. Complaining about that is just plain silly given how increasing important Hollywood is becoming after revelation about it's supernatural origins possibilities this many have in the future. It's just like Miikado literally at the end of episode 10 in S1 with nary a hint. EItherway she the Mika Harmina or Haruna Neikawa of this arc.

If whatever she is going play now with her identity exposed and her connections to Kasuka and Celty having formed doesn't interest you then as I said before that's fine, there who don't care other characters too.

Quote:
The characters are cold in that scene, that's clear, but the framing of that scene also was, like "don't worry, it's not an intense scene, they're just talking about stuff", and it wasn't supposed to. When you set up characters this explicitly, even when they are cold, you want the audience to feel a little about them. I wanted to feel weird when Kasuka said all that because I liked him in the first season. And just transcribing their lines without any different rythm or pacing looks like it's not an important scene, just something to see normally, which doesn't fit because they are defining both important character traits, and when Ruri cries we are supposed to care a little. We get why she does it, we don't get why the scene is done so simple and "don't worry audience".


Again you are being really vague here and you don't seem to understand why those acted the way they do despite it being establish in both how they converse with each other and the prior information and reveal Ruri. To began with if Ruri really wanted to kill him she would done so without question and without any conflicting thoughts. Kasuka is the same man who willingly almost cutoff his own hands during a situation with Yakuza isn't going to react much to having his life threaten. Him being emotionless is not an act (it's cause by a birth defect and the negative influences of his brother), just Shizuo's ridiculous strength isn't just for show or, Shinra's love for headless woman isn't fake.

This cast full of eccentrics and abnormal people who do not in society in various ways because of who there are, yet still find some way to live humanly. This something Ruri comes to understand after meeting with Celty. She not alone in not fit in and there are people who are more monstrous then she is.
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justsomeaccount



Joined: 24 Oct 2014
Posts: 471
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 11:23 am Reply with quote
Iron Maw wrote:
No I still don't because we already know about Ruri before the the reveal in roughly the same manner as Celty, Anri and Shizuo, before we got into they true identity and past. She only just had much less screentime then they did. She was already established as a popular idol S1 just as Celty was rumor to be a scary headless rider before we learned what they were like. She just didn't play big yet until now.

She only had ONE SINGLE SCENE. And it was a super short joke (Saburo likes Kaztano because he gives him entrances to her favorite idol) in episode 6. That's it. She's not in the rest of the show or mentioned even once. And I know this because I've rewatched the show recently, and she's only there. That's it. She's not even presented in these two previous episode once. You remind more all the minor characters like Kaztano, the other child inmigrant or this guy (who makes a lot of cameos btw) before her. Even if for some coincidence you remember her (which most people are not going to do, I only did a few days ago just by pure coincidence), you know absolutely nothing about her and she just comes out of nowhere without any tiny hint during the previous episodes or something, even if it is just being there so you say "oh, it's her".

Before the backstories: Celty had all those scenes, Anri had a whole lot of scenes (hell, all the Saika's arc before the twist is basically analyzing her senseless parasyte personality, so when the twist comes her personality is full-filled), Mikado had a whoooole lot of scenes during the first 10 episodes. You know who they are. Ruri no. For most people this episodes is her first appearance. It's not at all like the rest of characters.

Quote:
Again you are being really vague here and you don't seem to understand why those acted the way they do despite it being establish in both how they converse with each other and the prior information and reveal Ruri. To began with if Ruri really wanted to kill him she would done so without question and without any conflicting thoughts. Kasuka is the same man who willingly almost cutoff his own hands during a situation with Yakuza isn't going to react much to having his life threaten. Him being emotionless is not an act (it's cause by a birth defect and the negative influences of his brother), just Shizuo's ridiculous strength isn't just for show or, Shinra's love for headless woman isn't fake.

This cast full of eccentrics and abnormal people who do not in society in various ways because of who there are, yet still find some way to live humanly. This something Ruri comes to understand after meeting with Celty. She not alone in not fit in and there are people who are more monstrous then she is.

What you don't get is, the problem is not what the characters are doing or thinking. It's the framing of the story. Imagine if when Darth Vader says "I'm your father" Luke says "NOOOO" right after, like 1/4 second after he finishes says his line. It makes sense the characters act like that? Yes. Does the film-makers care about that reveal to the audience to impact us? No. You get it now? It's not the content; it's the tone, the way the content is being portrayed.
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DuskyPredator



Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 15508
Location: Brisbane, Australia
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:30 pm Reply with quote
Are you really that put off by it. Maybe it is because I have watched so much Monogatari that this really feels natural to me.
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Iron Maw



Joined: 29 May 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:32 pm Reply with quote
justsomeaccount wrote:
Iron Maw wrote:
No I still don't because we already know about Ruri before the the reveal in roughly the same manner as Celty, Anri and Shizuo, before we got into they true identity and past. She only just had much less screentime then they did. She was already established as a popular idol S1 just as Celty was rumor to be a scary headless rider before we learned what they were like. She just didn't play big yet until now.

She only had ONE SINGLE SCENE. And it was a super short joke (Saburo likes Kaztano because he gives him entrances to her favorite idol) in episode 6. That's it. She's not in the rest of the show or mentioned even once. And I know this because I've rewatched the show recently, and she's only there. That's it. She's not even presented in these two previous episode once. You remind more all the minor characters like Kaztano, the other child inmigrant or this guy (who makes a lot of cameos btw) before her. Even if for some coincidence you remember her (which most people are not going to do, I only did a few days ago just by pure coincidence), you know absolutely nothing about her and she just comes out of nowhere without any tiny hint during the previous episodes or something, even if it is just being there so you say "oh, it's her".


How short her scene was or not isn't irrelevant. It and the second hand information from various characters had already estblish a bit on who she is. Yes its easy people to forget those details, but people have also forgotten characters like Anri or how Shizuo got his strength. They are all in same boat as Ruri in that area.

Regardless the point is that Mairu, Kururi, Aoba, Kasuaka and now her are the new characters of this season who getting the proper introduction and their characters expanded. This episode served the same purpose episode 2 did for the twins for both Kasuka and Ruri.

Quote:
Before the backstories: Celty had all those scenes, Anri had a whole lot of scenes (hell, all the Saika's arc before the twist is basically analyzing her senseless parasyte personality, so when the twist comes her personality is full-filled), Mikado had a whoooole lot of scenes during the first 10 episodes. You know who they are. Ruri no. For most people this episodes is her first appearance. It's not at all like the rest of characters.


The majority of Celty's backstory was explained in episode 4 near the beginning which is narrated by both Shinra and Celty herself. It was no more than 3-4 minutes. The last minor piece if was the quick nightmare she had in episode 10 Showing a brief image of Shingen cutting off her head. Everything else having do with Saika was tied to Anri. That said we learned all about Ruri's personality issues and her emotions, one episode just as did Anri before she linked to Saika at the end. Nothing was hinted how Anri felt about herself until focus episode because she too is an internal character.

Quote:
What you don't get is, the problem is not what the characters are doing or thinking. It's the framing of the story. Imagine if when Darth Vader says "I'm your father" Luke says "NOOOO" right after, like 1/4 second after he finishes says his line. It makes sense the characters act like that?Yes. Does the film-makers care about that reveal to the audience to impact us? No. You get it now? It's not the content; it's the tone, the way the content is being portrayed.


Um... I never got the feel that Ruri's reveal was supposed to be anything near that dramatic. We supposed to be surprised and intrigued at the fact that Hollywood isn't man, but a woman and pop idol no less who under our assumption had nothing to do with killings let alone being the masked killer herself. You're the one making a mountain out of a mole hill instead of taking this the only way one can sensibly: as real introduction to her as she really is and her circumstances.

Frankly Ruri scene with Kasuka was the most interesting part of this episode for me with what it revealed them and made want to know even more about where they will end up in cacophony that is DRRR!!! in the same way twins.
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TsunaReborn!



Joined: 08 Sep 2012
Posts: 4713
Location: Cheltenham UK
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:12 pm Reply with quote
For me the difference between Anri and Ruri is that we were familiar with Anri as she had already interacted with a proportion for the cast before her info dump which in turn made it much easier to digest leading me to feel for Anri. As Ruri's first "real" appearance was this episode there was too much thrown out there with the spoiler[reviel that she is Hollywood killer], the background and present day personality complex. I wish they ended the scene/episode when she was spoiler[threatening to kill Kasuka ] then opened up the next ep with What happened after. It would have given the viewer time to digest that she spoiler[is the killer] secondly build up questions like "what's going to happen to him?"/"what or who is she really?" and thirdly the dump of charcter information would have been that little more meaningful with reflection and time spent waiting for answers.

I also don't think that there was enough focus on the murders to spoiler[make the reviel ] that meaningful. My only guess is that spoiler[Ruri] is going to play a much bigger part in the following episodes and that the murders are not going to be what defines spoiler[her as a character; and neither will the back story.]

But I would like to point out I did enjoy the episode as a whole.
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justsomeaccount



Joined: 24 Oct 2014
Posts: 471
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:24 pm Reply with quote
Iron Maw wrote:
How short her scene was or not isn't irrelevant. It and the second hand information from various characters had already estblish a bit on who she is. Yes its easy people to forget those details, but people have also forgotten characters like Anri or how Shizuo got his strength. They are all in same boat as Ruri in that area.

Tell me when they give second hand information about her before. And tell me also how do you expect from 650 minutes full of tens of characters we should remember one character that appeared 10 seconds and did nothing else and she wasn't even the main punchline of the joke ("oh so what Saburo cared wasn't something serious about Kaztano! Haha~~").

The twins had some minor scenes (episode 25, one minor in episode 1, and some others before Izaya) and they were eccentric, weird, called your attention and they had much more scenes in this new season so it hints they are going to be more important. They tell their philosophy, and you go "oh, fine, that's why they are how they are".

Quote:
The majority of Celty's backstory was explained in episode 4 near the beginning which is narrated by both Shinra and Celty herself. It was no more than 3-4 minutes. The last minor piece if was the quick nightmare she had in episode 10 Showing a brief image of Shingen cutting off her head. Everything else having do with Saika was tied to Anri. That said we learned all about Ruri's personality issues and her emotions, one episode just as did Anri before she linked to Saika at the end. Nothing was hinted how Anri felt about herself until focus episode because she too is an internal character.

The characters are more than their backstory. All the scenes I wrote about Celty before the backstory set up the character, who they are. We know more or less who they are, yei, later they will tell us who they were, okay, we know them so we want to know more about them. Ruri, we don't even know who she is because we don't even remember she even existed.

And the part in bold, you clearly don't remember that arc. Ep5: Tells how she is dependent of Mika ("she uses me and I use her"). Ep13: We see her thoughts about being a parasyte dependent of others, the bullies even tell her that. Ep15: Hint about ideal fake past, narrator tell us the background of her dead parents. Ep16: Clash against Haruna, she calls her parasyte, Anri doesn't deny it but doesn't care, end of episode she reveals to have Saika. Ep17: FINALLY backstory and how Saika complements her empty personality. Nothing until the twist? Nope, tons of scenes. That's character development.

Quote:
Um... I never got the feel that Ruri's reveal was supposed to be anything near that dramatic. We supposed to be surprised and intrigued at the fact that Hollywood isn't man, but a woman and pop idol no less who under our assumption had nothing to do with killings let alone being the masked killer herself. You're the one making a mountain out of a mole hill instead of taking this the only way one can sensibly: as real introduction to her as she really is and her circumstances.

Frankly Ruri scene with Kasuka was the most interesting part of this episode for me with what it revealed them and made want to know even more about where they will end up in cacophony that is DRRR!!! in the same way twins.

Wait what? I never complained that the problem was that it should be a surprise that Hollywood = Ruri, I'm perfectly fine with that, I don't care about the killer. My problem is := one scene was supposed to make us feel (Kasuka and Ruri learning from each other in that dangerous scenario) and I don't because the scene was simple and bland. Not because what the characters said, but because it felt like the studio read the interesting scene in the novels and said "*yawn* let's go quick and simple and every line will go one behind another without any enfasis on certain parts. Well that was easy".

The "Luke I'm your father" is just an example. Take out the music of the scene. Shorten all the pauses to that scene. Do that Luke screams "NOO" right after Darth Vader's line. Does the way Luke acts make sense? Yes. Do we get what they pretend? Yes. Are you invested? No, it's weird. So great, an interesting scene that I feel "meh" about. Not c ool.
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Iron Maw



Joined: 29 May 2008
Posts: 492
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:31 pm Reply with quote
Well you guys are way better picking nuances about Anri then am I, because up till her episode she was just there in comparison to everyone else. Nothing was known about her other then being shy. Even other scene with her until the one that focused on her was the same. I didn't have any trouble digesting anything about her because there was nothing to "digest" until she became a key character just like with Ruri, thus interesting. So if don't care if haven't learned much anything about her up to that point nor do I see the point of stretching things just play out whether she would kill Kasuka or not. Especially when are spending 75% of the episode on them. It's unnecessary slow imo.

@justsomeaccount

Again I really don't have a problem how her inclusion was handle at all. Like Izaya she is immediately much more interesting than quite few characters in this show because of it. Her Hollywood persona was merely a vehicle to properly introduce her and hint at her state of mind. Not to be some super earth-shattering plot twist, but continue please believe something the story, because you first I've heard believe that. We will just agree to disagree here.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23873
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:44 am Reply with quote
Finally caught the first three eppies. I had to wait until I finished my rewatch of the original series to get back up to speed. I feel like I understand Durarara!! much better than I did the first time around. Partly it's a function of watching the dub and partly it's because marathoning something rather than having to watch a single episode week by week makes it easier to understand and retain concepts.

Anyhoo, DRRR!! x 2 is off to a great start for me. Love the weirdo twins. Glad to see that Shinra's Dad will be getting more screentime (it would seem). I felt he was criminally underused in the first season. Like his wife, too. I don't care for that strange TV station owner, but oh well.

I'm surprised the spoiler[identity of the Hollywood killer was revealed] so quickly. I thought there'd be more mystery around that.

Very interested to find out what the deal with that new student is.
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Stark700



Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Posts: 11762
Location: Earth
PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:20 pm Reply with quote
Episode 4:

Oh wow, that spoiler[chase scene involving Celty was just priceless and fun to watch. I just love how she is trying to get away from the others but also having some thoughts about Shrina in the background].

What an episode. The twins also never cease to amuse me yet.
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ookamigirl



Joined: 15 Jul 2012
Posts: 2274
Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:37 pm Reply with quote
Poor Celty just can't catch a break..
Mikado got into a trouble of his own.
spoiler[Celty got a bit ruff with those bikers w/some help LOL]
Well, that was one way of getting rid of their tail.
Watching spoiler[Shizuo] snap is always so enjoyable ^^
Things played out in a fun way.
Seems like everyone had a spoiler[get-together at Shinra & Celty's place].
Looks like spoiler[Izaya] was a bit jealous that he missed out..
So spoiler[Aoba is planning to enter discord into Izaya's world.]
That should be interesting to watch.
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justsomeaccount



Joined: 24 Oct 2014
Posts: 471
PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 2:49 pm Reply with quote
Seen the fourth episode and... I'm going to watch an episode more, and if it's not only this part/novel/4 episodes and it's the rest who have this awful pacing, then I drop the show, because I really really hate the way it's being adapted constrasted with the previous season. I hate not to be able to enjoy the potentially good content, but the way it's being directed is unbearable to me.
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Iron Maw



Joined: 29 May 2008
Posts: 492
PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:59 pm Reply with quote
ookamigirl wrote:

Looks like spoiler[Izaya] was a bit jealous that he missed out..


Izaya being assbusted about this along Namie blowing him off was one of my many highlights throughout this episode. Anime hyper
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