Forum - View topicINTEREST: Animation Veteran Claims That Industry Newcomers Only Make 120 Yen An Hour
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firedragon54738
Posts: 3113 Location: wisconsin |
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That is just so messed up how can anyone live on 1 doller an hour in tokyo and it kind of wonders why so many mangaka and animators are getting so sick all the time
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Ojamajo LimePie
Posts: 769 |
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The contract system should be done away with entirely, and animators should be employed with an hourly wage and benefits.
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residentgrigo
Posts: 2442 Location: Germany |
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I wonder what the "assistant" animators (so the in-between animatiors) in Vietnam (yes they do cartoons) are getting paid in comparison. A bowl of rice a day?
Glory to Nippon and the hardest work i did in my life is to manufacture glass for 6,5 € an hour which was as exhaustive as my basic training in the army. Certainly my lowest point but thank god that stopped. I wonder though how the average japanese slave can endure for so long? You have to admit defeat at some point! Is loosing your eyes sight for filler episode x that fascinating? $839.26 is about what the "Arbeitsagentur" will pay you for staying @ home and applying for jobs over here and they will pay your rent and so on too as i did that just that for over a year (and succeeded in getting my library job). How would the animators though endure the prices in NeoToyko with 800$ or even better 15% of that? Capsule hotels and Cup Noodle kickoffs? What is the future. Animation by Freeter´s only? |
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Kadmos1
Posts: 13577 Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP |
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This is 1 thing I hate about capitalism: The idea that so many people making a product means that they often are overworked and underpaid.
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Clarste
Posts: 430 |
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The industry is subsidized by the dreams of young people. People don't become animators because they want a steady job that pays well, they become animators because they love animation. As long as they're willing to work for less in order to be a part of what they love (regardless of whether or not they actually love the day-to-day job), then they'll continue to be paid less.
These aren't desperate, impoverished people working two jobs to support their families - they wouldn't even have time for that - they're college graduates most likely being supported by their parents until they "get a real job". |
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AnimeAddict2014
Posts: 925 |
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120 yen/hr. Wow
at that price, isn't it slavery pretty much? Here, the minimum wage just went up to $8.13/hr or something. |
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mdo7
Posts: 6284 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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Good question, I'm not sure. I don't have enough information on that one. But you can watch this video.
Because Japan is very rich (or so they claim), so the Japanese govt could've set up a minimum salary standard for animation industry. Isn't that the purpose of Cool Japan and the Japanese govt supposed to make sure the content industry (that include the animation industry) is fit and healthy but apparently, this article tell me otherwise.
Thanks for the audiocast, that's what I need.
Same thing for me, I was a summer intern at NIH as a junior scientist and I made over a around $80 an hour I believe (I made enough to pay off my community college tuition each year). This is just sad hearing this out of Japan. And I'll say this: What's the point of buying anime now when a rookie animator make a dollar an hour? I already lost faith in the anime industry. |
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jinxidol
Posts: 4 |
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Remind me of Shirobako's graph.
Annual Income |
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leafy sea dragon
Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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People take work like this because they really, really want to get into the business in any way they can. The entertainment business has a capacity far smaller than the number of people trying to get in, and as a result, big companies can put these people into rather humiliating situations with extremely low pay, or even none at all. And people will fill those spots like it was the lottery, because they're that desperate to work there. They want to find the connections needed or an in to be promoted upwards, or they just really, really like drawing so much (as was mentioned here already) that they will put up with the ridiculous pay, going without eating or electricity for days in order to do the work they want to do.
There's more demand than supply for animators in Japan? Maybe I'm seeing this from the wrong perspective, because to my knowledge, it's the other way around for most major American studios. Word from people who have extremely low-paying or no-paying work in the entertainment business I've heard, by the way, is that most of them share rent in an apartment with one or more people, work a second job if possible), or quit when they realize they're going nowhere and that their bosses are never going to take them seriously enough for subsistence-level pay. These are not from animators though, just people working on ultra low-budget productions, gofers, interns, and bottom-level personnel.
I can live on no anime at all. Heck, I can say the same for any form of leisure. They're just that: Things you consume to enrich your life, but you don't need them to survive.
It's not in the animation business (or maybe sometimes they are, but I don't know), but sweatshops in some locations do not pay in money at all. Indeed, some DO pay with food, as is with gold farmers in China (though it's most commonly three meals per day). Where they are paid in food, the company, for the most part, will also provide them sleeping quarters for the workers, and if they have family, the company will also directly give their families food and quarters. It's like a twisted, disturbing counterpart to the 50's Americana idea of the man of the house providing for his family. Needless to say, the only countries where this sort of situation can happen are countries that lack labor laws that would ban it or have enforcement corrupt enough that they can get away with it (usually by bribing inspectors and police). |
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Cutiebunny
Posts: 1753 |
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Perhaps studios need to look into new ways to make money to pay their animators a better wage. If they were willing to sell the artwork that their animators drew, such as the backgrounds, layouts, douga, etc. that are scanned into a computer and then promptly trashed or burned, these animators could be making a good chunk more than they are now.
As evidenced by the many Yahoo Japan auctions each week for artwork from newer productions, there is at least some market out there. I'm quite curious as to how several of these sellers get their stock, with someone on the inside supplying them and then receiving a share of the money earned. |
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mdo7
Posts: 6284 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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Anybody remember this article and I'll quote:
Yeah so basically I like to quote this person from that thread:
So the anime industry (that include studio and production committee) assuming they do make a lot of money, and yet they couldn't pay the newcomers a larger wage then 1 dollar an hour. So as one user said, this is slave wage. I don't know if I want to buy my anime in the future since my money is not paying off these hard working people that put a lot of time and effort into making the animation work and yet get paid so little. |
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Hoppy800
Posts: 3331 |
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I wouldn't mind buying some artwork, but I usually just never see any that I want when I go there or in the rare cases that I do, I'm too late. |
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reanimator
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I agree with you. I've noticed that people tend to think that animators are forced into labor and tend to blame "evil capitalists" for their plight. It's their choice to live the dream they wanted in first place. Japanese animation industry relies on handful of paying hardcore fans as mainstream doesn't care much. Some of my favorite animators worked in well-paid jobs before they changed their career to animator. Toshihiro Kawamoto, character designer of Cowboy Bebop, was a salaryman before changing his career as animator. Atsuko Watanabe, another highly demanded character designer, gave up a well-paid corporate job to live her dream as animator for her love of Sailor Moon. Why would they give up well-paid job with security if it wasn't for their dream of becoming artist? However, I do think that budget and wage/salary distribution are too uneven and it needs some kind of reform. I do believe that highly motivated artists should benefit from fruit of their labor and effort. It's not just about raising payroll, but improving hiring, promoting, and training standard along with better business practices. I understand that newly minted inbetween animator doesn't have skills to draw complicated scene and therefore they can't paid much. When such is the case, one way for studio is to give flexible hours for new animators instead binding them to desk with ridiculous quota in hundreds of sheets. This way, they could find better paying job to support themselves while drawing animation. Trade-off: they can't be on the end credit roll until promotion to key animation. Or hire newly minted inbetween animators with decent pay, but terminate them if their drawing skill doesn't improve dramatically in 2~3 years. The same should apply for 2nd key animators if they don't improve. And so on. As for studios, they should focus on expanding their side business and developing more original contents whenever opportunity arises. Doing contracting work for clients will keep light on, but in the long run owning IP is better. |
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reanimator
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If animators can get back their drawings, that is. Once their drawings go to different department, I doubt that they will get them back as production coordinators are too busy. At least best ones go to storage. It's been known that those auction sellers go through dumpster bins of anime studios. You should know that animators sell dojinshi version of their key animations which are intentionally overlooked by rights holders. Rights holders don't want to make key animation books of every single anime titles they own because it costs a lot of money to publish them. Therefore it's win-win situation for both rights holder and animators. Studios are making quite bit of money through their own merchandise sales. You should know some studios run side business on their own too, like Ufotable Cafe and theater. When Comiket comes around, anime studios sell their art books and trinkets of their latest shows like crazy. When Kyoto Animation released their Free! 3-art books set for 7500 yen, it sold out. |
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Cutiebunny
Posts: 1753 |
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Other than Mandarake, there's a particular YJ seller who has a store in Nakano Broadway. I've been a couple times and he has what hasn't sold on YJ or stuff that he can't post there. Worth a look if you're in the area. There's another another dealer kitty corner to that store that sells higher end stuff. Otherwise, the best you can do is check YJ often and the couple fan sites that are dedicated to highlighting particular auctions that may be of interest. I've found quite a few things to buy through those sites.
Even if the studio collected all the artwork and agreed to share the earnings, equally, with its animation staff, that would be a lot better than the current set up of destroying it.
Used to. Not any more. Madhouse has been holding on to its production art ever since Disney came in and picked up a controlling stake in the company. Other studios, like Production IG, catalog their artwork, hold it in storage for a couple years and then burn it. Looking at the production artwork I own from newer shows, none of them show any of the telltale signs of dumpster diving, like creasing because they were squeezed into a circular trashcan. Things are being smuggled out of studios to YJ sellers and profits are made.
I am well aware of this. But how much of this money actually makes it to the animators themselves? I'm sure the producers and the investors are making a killing off merchandise from popular programs, including doujinshi artbooks, but what about your average inbetween frame animator? |
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