Forum - View topicAnswerman - Why Is Japan's Population Declining?
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MarshalBanana
 Posts: 5383 |
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CheezcakeMe
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It's not just Japan, basically every 1st world country has seen a dramatic drop off in birthrates. Heck just in my own social circle of 20-30 year olds, maybe one in four people even has a kid period. They're not just pricey in a stagnant expensive economy, they're career killers, especially for women. And without a career how are you going to pay off that massive student debt? So you choose between a kid and eating.
Heck I'm almost 30 and just barely at a point where an unplanned pregnancy wouldn't totally ruin my life. Last edited by CheezcakeMe on Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Kadmos1
 Posts: 13577 Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP |
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Interestingly, Brazil has the highest number of Japanese, Arab, and black diaspora. |
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TonyTonyChopper
Posts: 256 |
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It's also being said that if things continue as they are by around 2030 there will be less then 100 milion Japanese left so it's more of an issue then one might think ...
It's also being said that around 2030 Tokyo will be engulfed by water but i'm sure they would find a way to deal with that. |
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encrypted12345
Posts: 718 |
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Almost certainly both. I also doubt otaku women are too interested in 3D men and vice versa. 2D can fulfill many people's social needs at a much lower cost than a 3D relationship at times. It's obviously not for everyone because everyone has different social needs, but it has enough of an impact for people to blame it for the birth rate. I personally think the high cost of a 3D relationship is a bigger problem than the cheapness of a 2D one. |
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
 Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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The main reason why population reduction is a bad thing is the macroeconomic issue previously mentioned: wealth transfer. Japan, like the US, is set up to tax away large portions of the healthy working aged-citizen's income. This money goes to the government, which is typically run by the rich, the powerful, and the old, where it is then spent in ways that are advantageous to said groups. Basically, things like Social Security are Ponzi Schemes, which require ever-more money from those near the bottom of the pyramid. This is a problem only if the numbers near the bottom start to shrink (making the pyramid shaped less like a pyramid). Should that happen, the status quo becomes disrupted, and those at the top don't like that.
Anyway, that's the main reason population-reduction is bad from an economic view. But, what about an *environmental* view? Does anyone *not* think that the world is overpopulated? Because it is. And yes, it is in Japan, too. How much does it cost to buy some tiny space to live in there? Lots! That's because there is only so much land to go around for all of those people. All of those people... oh, wait! But population-reduction is bad! No, it isn't. Until we can keep our populations at levels that our resources can sustain, we are going to destroy ourselves in the long run. You can try to buy your way out of it by importing stuff, but that only works until the world's overall resource consumption gets so bad that countries end up fighting over who gets what. That *will* happen if we don't do something about it, and that something is to maintain sustainable population levels. I don't think what Japan is experiencing is a bad thing at all. Quite the opposite. And if the Africans would learn not to have kids they can't afford to raise, we'd be well on our way to achieving a sustainable population level on a global scale. |
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Hoppy800
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3D relationships can cost thousands per year, 2D can cost less than $500 a year if even that, it could just be a one time flat rate. Also, the declining population does not bode well for the gaming industry, Japan is becoming the last bastion for middle market and AAA single player games, the West is phasing them out, Chinese and Korean devs rarely develop games for consoles, there aren't many Korean or Chinese made single player games on PC either (they are primarily on phones with the typical predatory business models). |
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Mr.Shonen
Posts: 269 Location: Brooklyn, NY |
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Immigration will never be an answer. Japan is too nationalistic for that. Also, who's to say that any immigrant groups would be willing to accept Japanese customs/norms. Eventually it would lead to situations similar to those in Europe.
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Actar
 Posts: 1074 Location: Singapore |
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I think many people have already mentioned it already, but almost all first-world-countries are experiencing a population decline. Honestly, no one seems to want to address the elephant in the room - that increased gender equality has definitely played a role in all of this. With women becoming more and more financially independent and the lines between gender roles becoming more and more blurred (which is a great thing, don't get me wrong), what's the impetus for wanting to settle down, get married and have kids? I know I wouldn't want to give up all of my freedom for that. Heck no. Not if one wants to be pragmatic or can't find a suitable partner with a high(er) income, of course.
In the same vein, something I hate about this whole population decline issue is that people are quick to blame the men. That they are spineless. That they don't want to chase after women. That they obsess over anime too much. Putting aside the issue of whether anime obsession is a symptom or a cause, I do not enjoy how men are made to shoulder all of the responsibility. This double standard is blatant, yet so ingrained in our way of thinking. If a woman who doesn't marry can be strong and independent, so can an otaku who subsists on 2D. Also, the immigration thing is a double-edged sword. Look at Singapore. To fix the declining birth rate problem, the government has been bringing in foreign workers (nay, foreign "talent") to help bolster the economy via their open-door foreign policy. Many people now feel alienated in their own country and are complaining because they are facing greater and greater competition from foreigners. Come to Singapore and you'll notice just how many workers here are non-Singaporean. The sense of ownership and social cohesion is slowly eroding away with an ever diluting culture. Last edited by Actar on Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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I've heard of instances where *Japanese* people returning to Japan (say from the family being sent oversees by their employer) after a stay of a couple of years are viewed as "less Japanese" than those who don't leave. This is one reason I've heard that the number of people seeking internships at companies or studying abroad for college has been declining fairly steeply over the past decade. Japan seems to becoming *more* insular over time, not less. |
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Lemonchest
Posts: 1771 |
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Though it's not strictly the subject of the article, the issues in Non Non Biyori, Love Live etc are not simply due to population decline, but the nature of Japans urbanisation. Japan is not simply a highly urbanised society, but more than 1 in 4 Japanese live in the Tokyo metropolis alone (for comparison, a little less than 1 in 5 S. Koreans live in Seoul & 1 in 8 Britons live in London). The result is that rural & provincial populations have aged & declined much more than the national average would suggest.
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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I remember a few decades ago when "overpopulation" was the issue du jour. And while I agree that planetary overpopulation is a question that should be considered, I don't know if we're QUITE there right now. But I only say that BECAUSE we have several places (like Tokyo, or New York, or London, etc) that are VERY "dense", but then we have many places (like most of the US, a lot of Africa, big swaths of Asia, etc) that are all but empty. I think we have the space to accommodate our people if we choose to handle it properly. What's interesting from an economic AND environmental aspect, is that in many ways it is BETTER if we live more densely (assuming we do it correctly). Places like Tokyo can utilize things like public transportation better and make better use of "walking" as a means of transport precisely because everyone/thing is so close together. By contrast, most US cities have sprawled so much that it's simply not reasonable to expect people to walk to and from most locations. The interesting thing with Japan's population decline is that since people are social animals, the remaining population is often consolidating, making the smaller towns empty out in favor of the more dense locations. Notably this continues to make the land in the big cities more valuable/expensive, even though there is land elsewhere that people COULD acquire if they wanted. The same is true in the US, where land in California is very expensive, but you could get plenty of land in .. say Wyoming, for pretty cheap. |
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revolutionotaku
Posts: 890 |
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I've recognized the photo of the infamous Tojinbo cliffs.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tōjinbō |
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Heishi
 Posts: 1327 |
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One or two things needs to happen.
1. The Japanese government needs to make a massive overhaul and bring in more modern day-minded folk that can actually work to make the workplace culture less stressful for everybody. 2. There might need to be an immigration overhaul, as one commentator put it. Frankly, if they would bring in more foreigners, it might actually help Japan's economy and if Japan would be more than willing to admit the mistakes of the past, that might help them economically in the long run. They can make better deals with China and South Korea given that they would have much better relations than what they currently have. Just my 2 cents. |
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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I watch a lot of NHK World, and they have had several documentaries about just this topic. and just about every one has come to the conclusion that it has been the way Japanese business culture of the 60's right up until the bubble first burst in the early 90's that has meant many who came out of school and university went straight into the large corporations as a matter of target status and prestige that most women during that time put more value into toward any relationship that resulted in a marriage with children. These were naturally in the larger cities like Tokyo, Kobe, Osaka, Sapporo, and the like meaning many villagers moved away from the small mostly home craft, or agriculture based small economies. Unfortunately it was also the reason that as the "Salaryman" had to work longer and harder, sometime being away from their wives, only seeing them once a week up to once a year, thereby only to have one child, what then grew up with a single parent with no contact with other children except in school and no one to explain social and cultural expectations to these lone children resulted in a growing population of shy, socially inhibited teens and young adults? The males became withdrawn, shy, and or submissive to being lead by frustrated girls who filled the vacuum of dominant leaders once filled with males until after WW2. Hence the female carnivores and male herbivores phenomena we see today. These girls now women still look for strong males with good careers that make a good salary even when they themselves are mostly in those positions also and with the recession in its 25th.year and no sign of it letting up no matter what the BOJ and ABEnomics tries to do the boost their economy, nothing has changed. However having said all that the ruling Government seems to have woken up to the realization that pursuits of corporate ladder climbing, (and the failing success of many thereof) is one of the major reasons of suicides, marital and family break ups, and infertility causing the steady year-on-year decline in the birth rate. There have been a few bills brought before the Diete to force change in working time directives and emphasizing family values giving more time off to worker to actually see their wives and partners to maybe make a baby, or several babies and improve what child care there is at a cheaper cost so that some couples that both have jobs can raise a child without causing such said mental disabilities of the past few generations. Also with the 2020 Olympics coming round Japan is letting more and more foreign workers in as there simply isn’t enough indigenous Japanese to support the new buildings and infrastructure needed for then plus people to work in the hospitality and hotels needed for all the foreign athletes and their supporters and families. How many of them will be allowed to stay will be a deciding factor afterwards.
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