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Answerman - What Happened To The 90s Anime Boom?


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John Thacker



Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 1006
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:31 pm Reply with quote
BadNewsBlues wrote:


And yet even with that Marvel's films are still more culturally relevant and rake in far more money and play on far more screens than whatever anime film that's being exported from Japan. Anime as a whole will never reach that level here.


The closest thing to that level of culturally relevant is the Transformers franchise, an exception that proves the rule indeed.

I have always long thought that the 90s anime boom was not entirely about looking for something people weren't finding just in US animation, but people looking for continuity in general, something that was badly lacking in both animation and live action in Western TV at the time, outside of soap operas (the 90s being after the big 80s miniseries and evening soaps like Dallas and Dynasty.) The X-Files had a lot of continuity for its time, but if you watch it now you'll see that it has no more continuity than a standard network police procedural these days like The Mentalist. Modern US TV has a lot more continuity, which means that anime is less unique.
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AnimeLordLuis



Joined: 27 Jan 2015
Posts: 1626
Location: The Borderlands of Pandora
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:41 pm Reply with quote
Malcom in the Middle I remember that show well and I've always wondered what anime that was in the opening so thanks for clarifying. Smile
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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Location: Another Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:07 pm Reply with quote
partially wrote:
Unfortunately mainstream has a pretty flaky definition. But to try and make my stance clearer, anime is mainstream, individual series are subculture. For want of a better word, the "genre" of anime is part of the mainstream consciousness and an accepted medium of entertainment; it is mainstream. The fact that anime isn't really a genre though, and the spectrum of shows too broad, individual anime series will always remain niche subcultures inside of it. A huge amount of people watch and have exposure to anime, the problem becomes that it a much much more fragmented market than any other, hundreds of shows produced per year. Attack on Titan will never be mainstream (except for the fact that by some definitions it already is, but lets ignore that) but that does not mean "anime" is not.

To go to your person on the street test. You have to remember an important fact, even big huge mainstream stuff, a lot of people just don't care. They won't remember names. The thing to ask becomes whether they recognize images, or know what anime is. It has been a long, long time since I last met someone who didn't have some idea what anime is, if it came up in conversation. And I interact with a lot of people and age groups. Most of them wouldn't be able to name a single show. But even Marvel and the like will often fail such tests. "There was that movie with a big huge green dude, or that red suit guy." With anime you instead get comments like, "there was that show with the guy with really spiky hair".


Admittedly, the "person on the street" test would be quite malleable. But to me, I would ask, "Is the word/phrase (insert title here) familiar to you as a (medium)?" Or I would show an iconic image and ask if they have seen that image before, and an answer of "Yes" counts as familiar. If they can tell me at least one thing about the source of that image that can't be determined from the image, that would qualify. For instance, I could ask, "Is the phrase 'Star Wars' familiar to you as a movie?" Or I could show the poster for A New Hope, and if they tell me anything at all--any of the characters' names, any of the plot points, the names of any Star-Wars-specific things, humming the music, describing what the Force does without having to identify it by name ("the guy in the black mask chokes someone"), I'll count it as affirmative. It's not a quiz.

Otherwise, I can show people a picture of a scale model train, or a kite-flying competition, or a pinball machine, or a Rubik's cube, or a fruit sculpture--most people will recognize what they're looking at, but it's a lot harder to argue they are currently mainstream even though they fill your requirements for something being mainstream.

But I think the main thing we're differing on is that you're talking about mainstream awareness, and I'm talking about mainstream consumption, which are two very different things. I would definitely say anime reached mainstream awareness, and all of those examples I listed have also achieved present-day mainstream awareness in the United States while being very niche in consumption and fandom.

John Thacker wrote:

The closest thing to that level of culturally relevant is the Transformers franchise, an exception that proves the rule indeed.

I have always long thought that the 90s anime boom was not entirely about looking for something people weren't finding just in US animation, but people looking for continuity in general, something that was badly lacking in both animation and live action in Western TV at the time, outside of soap operas (the 90s being after the big 80s miniseries and evening soaps like Dallas and Dynasty.) The X-Files had a lot of continuity for its time, but if you watch it now you'll see that it has no more continuity than a standard network police procedural these days like The Mentalist. Modern US TV has a lot more continuity, which means that anime is less unique.


In western animation too. Even 10 years ago, if you someone there would be a My Little Pony show with more series-wide character development per year than Days of Our Lives, they'd think you were joking. I don't know if this came about from influence by anime, influence by serial live action, or if western animation peple have wanted to do continuity for a while but didn't do so until streaming became popular, however. (By the last point, I mean the habit of TV channels airing reruns in a random order, which would be quite the deterrent to continuity.)

Whatever the case, it's been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that even children can keep track of continuity.
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PurpleWarrior13



Joined: 05 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:25 pm Reply with quote
Anime's still pretty big with people my age (teens/20s), no doubt stemming from the popularity of Pokemon, Dragon Ball Z, and Sailor Moon from the late 90s. Then there's the NEXT generation of nostalgic anime fans that grew up with Naruto, Yu-Gi-Oh!, and the anime-inspired Avatar: The Last Airbender (say what you will about that show, but it did get plenty of kids into anime). Those were after my time, but it's cool to see how the cycles flow. Anime went from underground to pseudo-mainstream to something popular with teens/young adults.

I "discovered" anime in the late 90s with Toonami showings of DBZ, Sailor Moon, Tenchi Muyo, Gundam Wing, etc, and also Pokemon, but DBZ was the first one that caught my attention, in part because it did follow a "storyline." It was actually the first TV show I really watched that did.


Last edited by PurpleWarrior13 on Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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#hiros7039



Joined: 09 Feb 2017
Posts: 31
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:29 pm Reply with quote
One thing they should address is the high speed internet. At the age in the early oughts when fansubs were the only sources of viewing online and original intact version that's not Bowdlerized.
Another factor of ending the boom is how the networks keep screwing the viewers up taking away quality shows or the audience getting tired with the overused tropes that you only see in anime and video games.
Also, the Japanese video game invasion fits this subject too. The invasion started since the crash of 83 and seemingly grind to its halt in the new 10s. Xbox and American publishers filling up the shelves nowadays and the tropes between east and west distance apart.

Another thing is to address parts of Europe and Latin America where the boom occurred earlier and how the market went there.
You should follow HappyConsoleGamer on Youtube. He's an older x-gen anime fan from Vancouver who experienced anime from the 80s and 90s having been the cool kid accessing to obscure content.
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SWAnimefan



Joined: 10 Oct 2014
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:27 pm Reply with quote
Yeah the Anime trend definitely started in the late 70s when they introduced Gatchaman and Starblazers, replacing Hanna-Barbera, then we got into the 80s where on the American side, had GI-Joe, He-man, the Smurfs, and Transformers, while the Anime-side we had Macross/Robotech and Voltron. Then in the late 80s as Disney was ramping up with their animated movies that garnished popularity, where they started making mainstream cartoons based off those series. While competitors like the newly created Fox and Warner networks pushing their programming with their lines of Americanized Programming like the Power Rangers and Dubbed Anime. The Cartoon Network came around and had Tenchi Muyo, Gundam Wing that put it on the map.

Then 2000 came along and mainstream networks like NBC, ABC, and CBS stopped showing weekend cartoons altogether, then Fox and WB / CW stopped airing afternoon cartoons. All was left was Nickelodeon and Cartoon Network. Which sort of put the strangle on cartoons in general, more or less Anime. Sci-Fi network experimented with anime around 06-07, but that didn't stay long. Fortunately, that's when Youtube started becoming mainstream.

Youtube and other video websites virtually saved animation in the west as fans started uploading Japanese animation with illegal and pirated subs that let people see their favorites again or getting involved with the new generation. And that we all know has a massive effect on the Anime industry as the became more friendly towards overseas viewers.

So all in all the anime bubble popped at the turn of the century as networks gave up on cartoons and blew up again, largely thanks to the internet and internet communities. Then going mainstream thanks to popularity with Hollywood.
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Okashira



Joined: 29 Jun 2016
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:43 pm Reply with quote
Nah. All that was just a long deflection of explaining exactly what happened, the same way it did to interactive entertainment back then. That systematic White supremacy kicked in. That and piracy.
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EricJ2



Joined: 01 Feb 2014
Posts: 4016
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:13 pm Reply with quote
BadNewsBlues wrote:
Cable networks from Sci Fi Channel to Cartoon Network to IFC to HBO were occasionally broadcasting anime.


What anime did HBO air?[/quote]

Oh, that was back when fans were either so desperate to get more anime for free on cable, or to prove that it was now "influencing" culture, they started making the definition of "Anime" more abstract--and either way, show how bold and hip they were for liking it--and saying "Look, Spawn is 'anime', because it's serious and R-rated!"
Back when there were only three "anime" titles on whatever new shelf Blockbuster Video created for them, the Canadian-animated Spawn would always count for one.

(Sort of the same kind of thing PurpleWarrior was talking about with Avatar: Airbender's image, and even worse with The Animatrix, only the fans were even more serious about it.)
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InuKag1



Joined: 02 Mar 2014
Posts: 122
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:52 pm Reply with quote
ultimatehaki wrote:
I know I wouldn't be an anime fan without that boom. I was an elementary school student back then eager to get home and watch toonami. When it got taken off I didn't watch it for like 6 years until my junior year when I tried looking for these nostalgic cartoons I remember watching when I was younger and finally learned what it really was.

The boom definitely had a lasting impact.

You pretty much summed up my life
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Chiibi



Joined: 19 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:17 pm Reply with quote
I was really a victim of fads in my preteen and early teen years.....but I'm so glad anime wasn't included. I was right smack in the middle of the 90s boom when I starting watching Sailor Moon: 1998 and onwards. I was always that kid who liked doing her own thing; I never paid attention to "media everyone is supposed to like". I fell victim to fads like Beanie Babies, Tamagochi, and Pogs....only because I really liked to collect things. lol

In fact, when I first got into anime, I got made fun of....A LOT. But I fell for it so so hard and no amount of harassment was going to get me to stop liking it. Twisted Evil

I'd also never imagined that I was going to fall in love with studying a foreign language; not only study it....but EXCEL in it.....when my only other interest at school was art class.
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Zumie



Joined: 22 Jun 2013
Posts: 51
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:21 pm Reply with quote
I'm not sure why this article is sighting that anime became most "mainstream" in the 90s. As far as I know, most anime on tv wasn't even recognized as anime in the 90s and the ones that were were shown late at night pass 11 onward.

That said- I think it's true there was a giant push towards popularity and it becoming closer to mainstream- but no where near it was in 00's until around 08 when it began to fizzle out. (Probably because so many people were watching it online, at least. Or Piracy,that's what the people who licensed said anime blamed it on).

Anyway, a lot of the "boom", or the rise for anime- i think- within the 90s was mostly because of the brief period of time before high speed internet took hold and the interest in anime was drumming it up.

So I just don't see where people are getting that anime was most popular in the 90s and started to die out in 2000- if anything it was most popular in 2000, maintained some kind of mainstream- then fizzled out.

That's just how it seems to me for the most part.
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BodaciousSpacePirate
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Joined: 17 Apr 2015
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:11 am Reply with quote
EricJ2 wrote:
You ran to anime in the 90's to escape John K.'s grossouts, Spongebob's fourth-grade armpit-noises, AND Spielberg's incessant hyperactive Borscht-belt Hollywood-celebrity jokes about Schwarzenegger, Roseanne and LaToya, like a bad Henny Youngman Catskills-resort comic who thinks he's a hoot and won't stop bothering you at your table.


Considering that Spongebob didn't come on the scene until spring '99, I'd think it would have had a very limited influence on the behavior of 90's anime fans.
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Vibrant Wolf



Joined: 07 Feb 2016
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:16 am Reply with quote
my entire anime life in a nutshell.

still in diapers: watched Sailor Moon.
8 years old: watched Yu Gi Oh.
12 years old: pretended I didn't like Bleach and Fruits Basket (because I lived in a small city full of cliquey-ass bitches)
18 years old: stopped giving a shit about putting my manga away.
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Joe Carpenter



Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Posts: 503
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:49 am Reply with quote
It's a sad story, I think about the boom years a lot, I really miss them.

It's great that ten years after the boom went bust anime fandom survived and it's now the healthiest it's been since then, but at the same time it's just not quite the same, I think you could describe the current situation as a "healthy niche", the mainstream visibility of anime, be it shelves of dvds at Suncoast/Media Play or airings on Adult Swim is gone and the idea of anime being in any way a "mainstream" thing in the way comic book superheros are at the moment is gone with it.

But on the other hand, it could be a lot worse and with anime being more accessible than it's ever been thanks to services like Crunchyroll, who knows what the situation will be in another ten years?
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Shadowrun20XX



Joined: 26 Nov 2007
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Location: Vegas
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:28 am Reply with quote
Is one of those things that you had to be there for. The magic has definitely dulled, I think its because people have everything figured out. Between internet instant access and nothing to wonder about anymore, it's all laid out, scheduled and labeled for you to watch.

I had a blast growing up in the 80's into the 90's, my aunt was one of the early pixel artists in videogaming with her being a big part of my life, like it or not, I was ingrained with every spectrum of nerd culture. Anime was always involved in some shape or form but wasn't a focus until 1992 or 93. I went to AX 93 and 94. Ranma 1/2, Sailor Moon and Oh My Goddess were like crack at that age.
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