Forum - View topicAnswerman - Why Is Incest Such A Common Topic In Anime?
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kgw
 Posts: 1080 Location: Spain, EU |
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In Europe (at least in Spain), incest is not illegal*, too. Marriage between brothers is not allowed. * as it's not any relation between consenting adults. It can be a problem with the siblings' age, though. |
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BethanyP
Posts: 26 |
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Ehh ... depends what you call incest. Historically in the British Isles marriage between cousins wasn't considered to be a big deal. I would dispute the assertion that marriage closer than that was expected and normal - I'm struggling to remember any instances of it in the royal lines of England, at least. I'd have to check my books for details, but I'm certain that at least once a rumoured relationship between uncle and niece caused a scandal in the medieval period. Actually, now I think about it, in Shakespeare's Hamlet a big deal is made over the idea of Claudius marrying his brother's widow. Now, obviously there's more going on there than just that, what with the politics of Denmark set out in the play, but it's telling that the marriage is called "incestuous" at least once, and not in a casual way. Now, there's more than one way to interpret that, but given the theme of the rotten state of Denmark, I think there's strong evidence to argue that the audience is supposed to find that wrong, in some way Perceived purity of the bloodline had nothing to do with it - it was all about status. And status, so often, was backed as much by temporal power (Money, political influence, military force, etc) as by abstract notions of nobility. EDIT - Did a quick bit of digging - Henry II was third cousins with his wife Eleanor of Aquitaine, and wasn't supposed to be able to marry Eleanor's daughter Marie for the same reason. John I was married to his second cousin Isabella, Countess of Gloucester, but the marriage was later annulled on the grounds that he couldn't legally have married his cousin Last edited by BethanyP on Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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H. Guderian
Posts: 1255 |
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As was pointed out it was not a Japanese exclusive idea. But in a society where people long for the stability and connections we see constantly a celebration of youth and school. Likewise you can easily extend that some are reaching out for the same with their relationships. What relationships are the most stable and reliable that remind us all of better, simpler times? Family.
This trend will likely continue so long as people have a desire to enhance their ideas of youth. |
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AnimeLordLuis
 Posts: 1626 Location: The Borderlands of Pandora |
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I knew that Incest played a big role in Japanese history but that whole mother x son thing is new to me I mean talk about a mother f##ker.
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Hoppy800
 Posts: 3331 |
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Japan should seriously legalize incest between adults. Same with the US, the only real issue with incest now is if it's not between two consenting adults.
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Blanchimont
 Posts: 3459 Location: Finland |
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It IS. Legal. In Japan. It was even mentioned in the article. |
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Fenrin
 Posts: 697 Location: SoCal |
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Good theory. But it doesn't exactly explain why incest is also a popular theme (but to a lesser degree) in female-oriented works like shoujo manga and even BL, with the mc's older brother often being the overprotective one after the younger sibling's affections. |
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relentlessflame
Posts: 188 |
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I don't really think the theory holds up if you consider the way most of these relationships are actually portrayed in anime (and other related works like visual novels, etc.). Typically, these sorts of relationships are portrayed as difficult and counter-intuitive (given the social stigma). Consider something like OreImo, for example, where the protagonist has to overcome mountains of abuse to finally "get through" to his sister. Other major works with this theme tend to have major drama revolving around the social stigma that may or may not get an entirely positive resolution (see Koi Kaze, Yosuga no Sora, etc.). If the "otaku" wants to take the "low-anxiety" path, these stories almost always present a truly low-anxiety alternative, typically in the form of the childhood friend. This also has the same sort of benefit you describe of already being in a close relationship without the anxiety of being scorned, and also the benefit of having no social stigma. This is done on purpose so that it's clearer that the protagonist in the story is purposefully choosing the harder road (and not due to anxiety or lacking other available options). Typically these stories are structured more as "true love overcoming the odds" than some sort of easy road. In general, I don't really see any evidence to support that "otaku" are trying to avoid fiction portraying "high-anxiety" relationships or the risk of being scorned in the story. Further evidence could be the on-going popularity of "tsundere" (which does have some overlap with a lot of the portrayals here). If you want to believe that the choice of fiction is somehow related to real-life anxiety, then I would say propose instead that "otaku" seek out these various kinds of relationships portrayed in fiction perhaps instead of confronting them in real life -- i.e. because they know it's fiction. The perceived challenge or anxiety of forming the relationship in the story probably wouldn't be something the reader would ever do in real life (for a lot of reasons), but it can be part of what makes the story enjoyable. Anxiety in fiction is always guided by the hand of the author. |
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FenixFiesta
Posts: 2581 |
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Incest between siblings or first cousins is significantly different from a parental incest, assumedly between cousins/siblings it is still between young naïve individuals that are both are not completely seeing the long term consequences of there actions, where in the case of say a mother and a son it is clearly an adult taking advantage of child that is not ready to comprehend the ramifications of the situation. This is of course assuming the situation is under assumed "consent" and not just outright a situation of rape, which is crossing more lines of "why?, dear god, why?" that would be found in some circles of fetish doujin that run under the logic that "the more taboo the material is, the more kink marks it is checking off". |
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DerekL1963
 Subscriber Posts: 1116 Location: Puget Sound |
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Joh I's case is much more complicated than that... He was betrothed to Isabella of Gloucester on the condition that a dispensation could be obtained. Once married (in 1189), the Archbishop of Canterbury declared the marriage null - which was later overridden by the Pope who granted dispensation to marry but forbade sexual relationships. In 1199 John himself sought and was granted an annulment (on the grounds of their close relationship) so he could marry Isabella of Angoulême. (Some say it was love, others that it was the allure of a younger woman, yet others point to the land and income Isabella of Angoulême brought to the marriage.) I.E. Dispensation, annulment, and scandal often had a political dimension. |
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Utsuro no Hako
Posts: 1039 |
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The Catholic Church, which decided who could get married throughout the Middle Ages, changed definitions several times. At the broadest, sixth cousins were forbidden from marrying. At the narrowest, the prohibition extended only as far as first cousins. Of course the sixth cousin rule was ridiculously broad (do you even know who your sixth cousins are?), but such things could be dealt with by getting papal approval.
The issue there was that the Bible expressly forbids a man from marrying his brother's widow. It's classed as incest, but a different kind from consanguineous relationships. This is the same issue that caused Henry VIII to break from the Catholic Church -- his wife Catherine of Aragon had originally married Henry's brother, Arthur, but Arthur died during the honeymoon. In order for Catherine to marry Henry, she had to swear her first marriage had never been consummated. When Henry decided to dump her, he accused her of lying about the consummation, which would've voided the marriage, but the Pope was in the pocket of Catherine's brother and wouldn't approve the annulment. So Henry declared the Pope wasn't the boss of him and set up the Church of England, which allowed the annulment to go through. |
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Cptn_Taylor
Posts: 925 |
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There is a slight difference between incest in royal families and as something that is accepted in society at large. European societies never ever legitimised incest, this can't be said about Japanese society. So yeah things are very different between Japan and western societies on this issue (among other issues such as pedophilia). |
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Cptn_Taylor
Posts: 925 |
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Your reasoning doesn't make sense. If the otaku male viewer is so afraid of a real life woman (a sister is still a girl isn't she ?) why would he obsess over a virtual little sister ? Obsess to such a point that he'd want to bang her ? You say it's because a little sister is more loving, caring, inferior to the male otaku. So he has absolute control over her and incest is rape by another name. Somehow I don't see virtual little sisters saying ok big virtual brother, I love you so much you can bang me. There is absolutely no reason why anime can't depicted couple relationships between a man (or a teenager) and a girl (not his first cousin, not his baby sister). The woman could be drooling all over the man but it doesn't make it incest. What I mean if incest is depicted in anime and is so prevalent it is not by accident. It's a conscious choice. Just like it's a conscious choice when you rape someone. Incest between mother/father and sons/daughters or brother/sister are pervesions. Criminal acts in fact. That it gets a free pass in anime is 100% disgusting. |
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jojothepunisher
 Posts: 799 |
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Well, we got incestuous relationships between parents and kids here in the West too. The only difference between Japan and the rest of the world is that they don't have law to restrict it, which makes it not so hurtful for individuals or products to fetishize it.
But man, that report of the mothers having relationships with their sons takes the cake in ridiculousness......and the rationalization for the behavior too... |
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relyat08
 Posts: 4125 Location: Northern Virginia |
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I think that does actually sort of explain it. It's more or less some of the same reasons. A super anxiety ridden girl might find the idea of seeing a relationship where the girl is protected and loved by her older brother, romantically, appealing. The fantasy of witnessing a romantic relationship, without the fear of actually going out and having to socialize with strange unknown people. I've heard people suggest that yaoi is popular among fujoshi for some of the same reasons as well. These women can experience a hot romance between two men without the fear of actually having to be involved in one themselves. |
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