Forum - View topicANNCast - The Shojo Must Go On
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Asterisk-CGY
 Posts: 398 |
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OH and Emma. Can't forget Emma.
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maaya
Posts: 976 |
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Emma is not a shojo manga though. And Paradise Kiss is a Josei.
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invalidname
 Contributor Posts: 2455 Location: Grand Rapids, MI |
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I empathized with Zac's realization with shoujo that there really is nothing like it in the West. Actually, that mirrors something I've argued about visual novels, that many of them represent a romance genre for men that has no Western equivalent that I know of.
If we go with Zac's comment that what stands out about shoujo is how a story like "Marmalade Boy" or "Hana Yori Dango" just features ordinary people and their lives and their relationships -- sorry, can't find his exact quote in the MP3 -- well, sure we can probably find various indie comics that meets that broad definition. But I found myself thinking about "Archie" comics (of all things!) recently, and wondered "hey, what genre is this?" Even though it's idiomatically nothing like shoujo -- self-contained, gag-centric stories without particular depth to the supposed romance -- isn't this a somewhat popular (or at least once-popular) example of relationship-driven non-super-powered Western comics? It's not shoujo, and I can't imagine what its modern audience is (collectors?), but compared to the rest of Western comics, it's an awfully odd duck. Is there some broader, cross-cultural genre that both "Honey and Clover" and "Pals and Gals" fall into, or is that so broad as to not be meaningful anymore? |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18227 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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And I would point out, from the link you cited:
So sorry, no claims of copying/borrowing can be validated here. |
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CareyGrant
Posts: 453 |
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Wait, what?! Given the often deplorable state of gender equality in Asia, I'd love to hear someone explain this argument to me.
Yeah, because it's instant (and lazy) character depth/background. Need a tragic or traumatic life event or character? Rape'em. Or kill both their parents. |
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Tamaria
 Posts: 1512 Location: De Achterhoek |
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Haha, all my favourite series sell/sold HORRIBLY! I've got several bookcases filled with failure. Awesome failure 
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Spotlesseden
Posts: 3514 Location: earth |
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Emma is shojo to me.
Also I watched Redline, I'm not sure what's so good about it. Not sure what ANN people love it. not sure why Japan love it. I couldn't finish the movie. |
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rinmackie
 Posts: 1040 Location: in a van! down by the river! |
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Fantasy rape and real life rape are completely different. Lots of women have rape fantasies but they wouldn't want to be raped in real life. Unfortunately, I imagine a lot of Japanese women, like these authors, were probably taught that such things are "normal", even in real life. |
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Asterisk-CGY
Posts: 398 |
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And that's what threw me for PK. It was a jump from light and fluffy to a bit of broody and emotional. Going out of just "shoujo" into auxiliary genres this was one of my more interesting transitions. As for Emma, I guess, but I'm just a fan of non-action life stories and lump em together really. |
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BunnyCupCakes
 Posts: 224 Location: The Sunshine State |
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Hmm, my first shoujo manga (well, manga in general) was Marmalade Boy. And following right after that, Mars.
I remember burrowing them from a friend in middle school and reading them during class. I actually ended up getting one of my non-anime/manga friends into Marmalade Boy (she liked reading/watching teen drama/romance stuff like One Tree Hill & The O.C at the time) But yeah, from there on, I pretty much turned into a shoujo manga junkie. Though it sucks that shoujo always gets the short-end of the stick when it comes to anime adaptations. I think the trend now are live-action adaptations instead, especially if it's just a school life/slice of life series, like Otomen and Highschool Debut and such. There's a few good shoujo series that I would love to see an anime adaptation of (Strobe Edge, Immortal Rain) but I doubt it'll ever happen any time soon. Oh well, I'll just continue reading the manga lol. |
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maaya
Posts: 976 |
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It's not really useful if everybody just decides these things for himself. Then you can't really discuss them so easily anymore. The demographic is decided by the publisher, which makes it very easy to look up in most cases (apart from some magazines that purposely don't aim at a specific audience), and then to discuss with everybody having the same "basis".
Because anime are aimed mostly at male otakus, who don't necessarily care for shojo series. While shojo mangas are aimed at any kind of girl. And many of these girls aren't otakus, and they as well as a general non-otaku audience are easier to reach through live action series. But I'd love to see some more fantasy shojo series (which doesn't work well as live action) animated. For now at least we got some Josei series, Bunny Drop and Chihayafuru (starting next season).
Well, I guess you are not necessarily only a fan of "shojo", but a fan of the "slice of life" genre. Which can often be found in shojo mangas, but not exclusively. Just as "romance" and "drama" aren't exclusive to shojo mangas. You might want to check out some more Josei mangas =) |
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cl-shojo
Posts: 70 Location: New York |
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I really liked this ANNCast! I enjoy hearing people's opinions about shojo anime and manga since I have such love for it (I miss the Chicks on Anime column!). And I find it funny that Zac kept referring back to Hana Yori Dango and Marmalade Boy as 'definitive' shojo, because those are the exact two series I think of as well - they are both purely character-driven (not to mention they're two of my favorite series, along with Kodocha).
I have to say, I really agree with Emily about wanting the Itazura na Kiss anime to be licensed - I'm reading the manga and I'm enjoying it because of how much it influenced so many later shojo romantic-comedies. |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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A minor complaint about the podcast. Ed a couple of times refers to "49ers" without ever explaining the term. While from the context it's clear enough that it was a group of influential mangaka, it seems neither he, Zac, nor Emily realized the many of the listeners would be completely unfamiliar with the phrase. As someone living in the U.S., the first association I make with 49ers is the football team, and then the gold rush that provided their name. I feel you missed an opportunity to possibly enlighten your audience about what seems to be an important bit of manga history.
You're splitting hairs, at least about Emma (not familiar with Paradise Kiss). Emma is a historical romantic drama, and to any male, that just screams chick flick, regardless of quality or maturity level, and because it's manga, it just gets dumped all under the broad label of shojo. Regarding the faux-yuri stuff, I can think of three shows that include those kind of situations. One being Marimite, which I haven't actually seen but is, or at least was, pretty popular and influential. The other two are more parodies of the idea: Otoboku and Maria-holic. I think "faux-yuri" refers to the situations where younger girls are paired up with an upperclassman as a mentor type, and there is abundant romantic subtext, but nothing actually occurs. Otoboku obviously doesn't really fit this because it's a harem comedy where the male is forced to cross-dress to attend an all girls school and becomes the respected older girl. Maria-holic has the shallow lesbian lead relentlessly mocked for expecting such relationships to be common place in the series. I don't watch much shojo normally, so I don't know any actual examples of faux-yuri, though. |
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Asterisk-CGY
Posts: 398 |
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Well Last Josei I read was Nana, and haven't looked for anything really since. A lot of it really has to do with backlog. Most of these series seem to have been ongoing for a while, so its not easy to jump in and pick up. That and they're not that prominatly really on most radars. And with Nana still on haitus, well... Eh at some point maybe, but I follow enough stuff to keep me busy. Just need a big name to show up somewhere to catch again. Could start watching those Kdramas on CR. Or the live action Hayate. Ahhh Live Action, trying to be anime while clearly not. |
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Ryo Hazuki
Posts: 363 Location: Finland |
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No, he's not. In my opinion romantic manga aimed at boys/men, such as Maison Ikkoku and Kimagure Orange Road is different from shojo and Emma did nothing to change it. Emma feels nothing like any shojo manga I've read. |
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