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REVIEW: Haruka -Beyond the Stream of Time- GN 1


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Sakuya Masaki



Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 34
Location: TX, USA
PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:13 pm Reply with quote
jared_thorin wrote:
chichiriNoDa wrote:
Elisian wrote:
Fushigi was chock full of the same character over, and over. Oh wait that's what Yuu Watase does. Harukanaru Toki No Nakade tells a similar story with better characters, and prettier art.


Well excuse me, give me a mangaka who have made tons of series that didn't have any such similarities with their previous work. (Exclude Clamp cause they are group).

And yeah the review for Harukanaru is right on everything. I couldn't even pass the first page. Horrible art, copy-cat, confusing panels.

Btw just follow Celes's recommendations.


You know If you couldn't make it past the first page you don't really have a whole lot of debating room Smile


Well, I struggled to get 3 chs. into the series to give it a proper chance (I really wanted to give up after the 1st one, but pushed on through) before I just couldn't take it anymore so do I have a little more room to debate? Wink
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chichiriNoDa



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 532
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:11 am Reply with quote
Dessa wrote:
If you don't like a series, don't read it. It's as simple as that. But don't insult those of us who do.


Just for the record I never insulted anyone.
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Elisian



Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Posts: 74
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:38 am Reply with quote
Dessa wrote:
If you don't like a series, don't read it. It's as simple as that. But don't insult those of us who do.

I was a fan of Fushigi Yuugi. I have the Suzaku, Seiryuu, and Oni boxes, as well as Eikoden. I even watch them once in a while. When I don't get sick to my stomach watching all the melodrama crap that you have to put up with.

HaruToki is a wonderful series, with very thought out and detailed characters. I can barely read Japanese, even with the use of an extensive dictionary, but the characters grow massively, and each character is given a chance to shine, unlike certain other series which focus on a single character or two. Especially Yasuaki's growth, which Director Tsunaki of the anime even admits makes him his favorite character.

And while there are many male characters, it's not really a harem series. Of the 11 male characters in the series, only two of them are even romantically attracted to Akane. Most of them care for her, but it's different than romantic love. Yorihisa wants to protect her, and she helps him see that there's more to life than duty. Tenma's an idiot who needs to die... I mean, um... Tenma... nevermind, I'm not going to try to make him sound good... I hate him. Shimon is like the younger brother who knows that he'll find someone for himself, but finds it hard to wait while those around him find those they care about, and wants to help as much as he can. Inori wants to protect Akane, but is conflicted between what he has always known, and what he sees in front of him. Tomomasa just likes teasing her, he's not attracted to her. Takamichi cares for Akane, but the most important woman to him is his mother. Yasuaki doesn't have "human emotions," but he feels drawn to Akane for some strange reason. Eisen cares deeply, and even loves Akane, but he knows that it would never be possible, because he must become Emperor after his brother, and she must return to her own time (and Tenma still needs to die, and I wish Yorihisa and Yasuaki made good on their threats to him). Akuram doesn't care for her, he only desires her power. Ikutidaru already has someone, who is with child. And Sefuru is too confused about where he stands to care for anyone.

Unfortunately, I don't know much about Suefumi, as he just showed up in volume 14

You know, I think I'm going to go pull out my manga and start reading again... Well, after I re-watch the DVD to write my review of it.


"Quoted for truth" I'm glad there are other people out the that can see the good points of this series.
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marie-antoinette



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 4136
Location: Ottawa, Canada
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:41 am Reply with quote
Dessa wrote:
If you don't like a series, don't read it. It's as simple as that. But don't insult those of us who do.


I don't think anyone has insulted the people who like the series. Our target has always been Haruka itself, which the majority (from what I've seen) think is trash, which is why I think we are intrigued by the idea that anyone could like it. But lots of people like things that I don't and they are free to their opinions.

And I don't read Haruka. I quit after two chapters or so.
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aluria



Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 367
Location: New Westminster, B.C., Canada
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:55 pm Reply with quote
Only read 3 chapters of Haruka and it wasn't the beginning but what I did read made no sense and I kept confusing the characters. The entire time I kept thinking of Fushigi Yugi and the resemblance.

I personally love most of Yuu Watase works. Zettai Kareshi is the only one I didn't think a whole lot of. Yes her character designs are similar but the storylines are well done and her characters well developed. I don't know how many times I've cried or cheered with the characters.
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CCSYueh



Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 2707
Location: San Diego, CA
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:27 pm Reply with quote
skyesage wrote:

You know what my immediate response is? Minekura Kazuya. In EVERY ONE OF HER SERIES, there is ALWAYS THE SAME GUY.

CHO HAKKAI (Saiyuki). MISHIBA TOKI (Bus Gamer). KUBOTA MAKOTO (Wild Adapter). THEY ALL LOOK THE SAME.


But I'm devouring all of Minekura's titles. Cho Hakkai isn't banging Sanzo. Kubota Makoto didn't turn into a demon after killing a bunch of demons. Minekura's titles are INTERESTING. I wish she'd move them along faster, but oh,well.

I have a dozen unread Fushigi Yugi. Ceres I abandoned halfway thru. I couldn't even finish Alice whoever. I was following Absolute Boyfriend, but it was so getting to the abandon point when Shojo removed it.

I have very serious issues with Yu Watase. Lots of people love her. Good for you
But to give her credit for creating this genre?
I don't buy it. I see some of the same elementgs as Dragonball (collect the balls-colect the warriors)
Couldn't one sort of say Saint Seiya is a harem title" A bunch of hot guys guarding Athena? I think it's almost a decade older than Fushigi Yugi. And I know from Please Save My Earth Seiya made a large impact on the female audience(that author was a huge Cygnus fan)
The elements are too common to Japanese storytelling.
The whole fish-out-of-water is as old as sin on our side of the Pacific. American Yankee in King Arthur's Court, anyone? The idea of the clash between old & new is a fascinating literary device, even Edgar Allen Poe used it.

I loved from Far Away. It's one I actually made to the end without getting exasperated. I loved Red River because the heroine was very strong, but dropped it because the villainess was so Sailor Moon stereotype (& I hate Sailor Moon). I could envision 20 volumes of same old-same old plot machinations. I keep thinking of going back (I made it to vol 10 or 12), but so far have controlled those thoughts. Obviously it help me better than anything by Yu Watase.

So all the Yu Watase fans hate this one. I haven't read the serialization yet (I get backed up on shojo beat & shonen jump, the plough thru a year's worth or so), but I have pre-ordered it from BV because I'm hoping if it does well, a certain other NeoRomance title will finally make its way over

It's based on a game, though peoples. I never really expect all that much from those titles because they fall into the pander side--have to include game elements to please the game fans. I swear that Demonbane OVA was a 30 minute excuse to have every frigging character in the game walk thru because nothing much happened. It was fun, though. So to compare Haruka to Fushigi or InuYasha isn't really fair. It's like comparing Harry Potter to-pick a franchise, I don't know what's out there now...Rugrats? (So out of what's on for young people). I remember the Dark Shadows romance novels which were horrid to passable at best (I still have them all somewhere...) One cannot compare Gakuen Heaven by You Higuri to Seimaden because Seimaden is her title while Gakuen is based on a game she did designs for. She was simply hired to do a story to milk the franchise for a few bucks(yen). As I recall, they even ran a poll so the readers could pick who the uke would wind up with. And I seem to remember refs to alternate titles to provide alternate pairings. It's called crass commercialism.

And yes, I have Fushigi Yugi & The OVA set & Eikoden & Ceres on dvd. And they piss me off almost equally to my enjoyment of the hot bishies.
I get more enjoyment out of Kyo Kara Maoh & Saiyuki/Reload/Gunlock. At least bishies don't have to die for stupid chicks. I hope Haruka doesn't do that. I'm buying it for the killer VA cast. And I keep hoping someone will salvage Shonen Onmyoji & Saiunkoku.

edit-
Wait--
Quote:
Hakkenden: Legend of the Dog Warriors (OAV)
Plot Summary: Adapted from the famous samurai masterpiece, Hakkenden tells the tale of eight samurai brothers. Reincarnated and bound to defend the Awa clan, these eight souls must find one another and unite to stop a powerful demonic force. However, the demons that oppose them are determined to keep them seperate and even place them in mortal combat against one another. It is up to Shino, the bearer of the Murasame, to find his wayward brothers and convince them to fight as allies.


Sounds oddly familiar to something.....
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marie-antoinette



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 4136
Location: Ottawa, Canada
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:49 pm Reply with quote
We're not giving credit to her for creating the genre, by no means.

We are however saying the Haruka is a clear rip-off because there are so many elements that are EXACTLY the same. For example, that demons have the exact same physical attributes that made spoiler[Nakago's tribe outcasts]. Both have priestesses needing to gather warriors. Both have Japanese schoolgirls sucked into historical worlds. We could go on.

There is no way that this series came to exist without the mangaka having read Fushigi Yuugi.
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Sakuya Masaki



Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 34
Location: TX, USA
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:58 pm Reply with quote
marie-antoinette wrote:
We're not giving credit to her for creating the genre, by no means.

We are however saying the Haruka is a clear rip-off because there are so many elements that are EXACTLY the same. For example, that demons have the exact same physical attributes that made spoiler[Nakago's tribe outcasts]. Both have priestesses needing to gather warriors. Both have Japanese schoolgirls sucked into historical worlds. We could go on.

There is no way that this series came to exist without the mangaka having read Fushigi Yuugi.


I agree. This isn't a question of what you think of Watase's works. There's no question that she did not create this genre. Whether you like Watase or not doesn't matter, but the fact still remains that Haruka is very obviously taken from Fushigi Yuugi. There are far too many similarities. You could call it a rip off of whatever time-traveling-schoolgirl series you wanted to because there are plenty of them out there, whether it had the reverse harem or not. The fact would still remain that Haruka is just an inferior series.
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Elisian



Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Posts: 74
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:08 pm Reply with quote
Sakuya Masaki wrote:
marie-antoinette wrote:
We're not giving credit to her for creating the genre, by no means.

We are however saying the Haruka is a clear rip-off because there are so many elements that are EXACTLY the same. For example, that demons have the exact same physical attributes that made spoiler[Nakago's tribe outcasts]. Both have priestesses needing to gather warriors. Both have Japanese schoolgirls sucked into historical worlds. We could go on.

There is no way that this series came to exist without the mangaka having read Fushigi Yuugi.



I agree. This isn't a question of what you think of Watase's works. There's no question that she did not create this genre. Whether you like Watase or not doesn't matter, but the fact still remains that Haruka is very obviously taken from Fushigi Yuugi. There are far too many similarities. You could call it a rip off of whatever time-traveling-schoolgirl series you wanted to because there are plenty of them out there, whether it had the reverse harem or not. The fact would still remain that Haruka is just an inferior series.


*is confused* I still don't think these two series are really that much alike. They have similar aspects, but completely different stories. This is almost as bad as the Naruto/ Dragonball Z similarity crap. Just because it is similar does not make it a rip off. Try an inspiration...maybe, but not a rip off.
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CloverKuroba



Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 506
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:23 pm Reply with quote
I'm not sure if Haruka is a total rip-off of Fushigi Yugi; sure, it has a lot of the same elements but...*shrugs*.
Though, that's not to excuse it from being a bad manga. Because it definitely is, IMO. The pacing is bad and the art leaves something to be desired. The characters are cliched or just rather uninteresting. Nothing against the fans though; Feel free to like Haruka.

And I find Yuu Watase to be a tad overrated. Personally, I didn't think Fushigi Yugi wasn't that great either. I enjoyed Imadoki and Alice 19th, but I find some of her manga to be repetitive, cliched and shallow. But again, nothing against the fans.
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Sakuya Masaki



Joined: 11 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:36 pm Reply with quote
Elisian wrote:

*is confused* I still don't think these two series are really that much alike. They have similar aspects, but completely different stories. This is almost as bad as the Naruto/ Dragonball Z similarity crap. Just because it is similar does not make it a rip off. Try an inspiration...maybe, but not a rip off.


I really can't see how it's *not* alike. A Japanese school girl is hurled into an ancient world where she becomes a priestess and has warriors who happen to be attractive men.

That seems to adequately describe both series when boiled down to a short, basic description of the story.

Besides the fact that Haruka takes place in ancient Japan and FY is in ancient China, they're really quite similar. And on the Wikipedia pg., there even seems to be a lot of mention of Suzaku, Genbu, Seiryu, and Byakko, the 4 gods from Chinese/Japanese mythology used in FY. I couldn't tell you how well the characters match up since I really couldn't tell any of the Haruka characters apart, but I did see on Wikipedia that there is a monk, and I know one of Akane's friends who was also thrown into the world (and I'm guessing he becomes one of her warriors) has bright red hair. Sounds pretty similar to Chichiri and Tasuki to me. And then there's the most obvious which is Nakago/the oni clan guy in Haruka.

CloverKuroba wrote:
I'm not sure if Haruka is a total rip-off of Fushigi Yugi; sure, it has a lot of the same elements but...*shrugs*.
Though, that's not to excuse it from being a bad manga. Because it definitely is, IMO. The pacing is bad and the art leaves something to be desired. The characters are cliched or just rather uninteresting. Nothing against the fans though; Feel free to like Haruka.

And I find Yuu Watase to be a tad overrated. Personally, I didn't think Fushigi Yugi wasn't that great either. I enjoyed Imadoki and Alice 19th, but I find some of her manga to be repetitive, cliched and shallow. But again, nothing against the fans.


I'll definitely agree w/you there. I do think Haruka is quite the rip-off, but even if it's not, it's still a really sorry excuse for a manga due to the problems w/the panels and the art and the fact that nothing in it makes me want to give a rat's ass about anything that happens in the story.
I still like FY because it's something from my high school days and I have fond memories of watching it w/friends (I haven't watched it in yrs. so I couldn't tell you what I would think of it watching it now as an adult), but overall, Watase is overrated. Her series are very shallow and cliched, especially Absolute Boyfriend. I think FY was great at the time and Alice 19th was very enjoyable, but after that, I've been more and more disappointed by each series of hers I come across.
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HitokiriShadow



Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 6251
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:30 pm Reply with quote
I think people really overblow the "It's just like Fushigi Yuugi!" thing. I'm something of a Watase fan, though FY was not my favorite and I though it was decent but far from a masterpiece. I could see the similarities with FY but I'm not one to write off a series as a rip off simply because of a few superficial similarities.

Frankly, I don't really care about how similar Haruka is to FY. It has as many similarities to FY as Rahxephon does to Eve, but Rahxephon still manages to be a great show on its own merits. The manga's problems are far deeper than copying elements from another series. The problems with Haruka lie in the execution: the failure to develop interesting characters and plot and tell the story coherently. It just happened to copy FY on top of failing to do anything else remotely well.
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marie-antoinette



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:45 pm Reply with quote
Very true. If it was a good rip-off, I think everyone would be more than happy to overlook the similarities with Fushigi Yuugi (I found that the basic set-ups for FY and CLAMP's RG Veda were decently similar, yet they are both good in their own right). But it's not.
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CCSYueh



Joined: 03 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:04 pm Reply with quote
For example, that demons have the exact same physical attributes that made spoiler[Nakago's tribe outcasts].

As I recall it was his "western appearance"(to be gentle). Not unlike A LOT OF FOLKLORE where strangers/outsiders are suspect of being witches/vampires/werewolves/etc. When things go south with the crops-the strange baby or odd newcomer often takes the fall. How is this unusual? I read one book on Japanese folklore that even pointed out a common form of demon resembles a northern tribe that was more fair than the average Japanese.
Look at the Aztecs & the Spaniards. (Or was it the Mayans? I forget)

So again, this is a common historical point to a lot of cultures.

Look at Rip van Winkle & the stories of people displaced by faeries. I seem to recall Japan has its share of stories about people who spend time on the moon or in a demon kingdom. Didn't the guy in Conneticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court become an advisor to Arthur? Not unlike a priest in a way?

Angelique has warriors. Hakkenden has warriors & a princess & it's based on a classic samurai tale-possibly the basis for all these gather the warriors themes. Saint Seiya has some 108 saints/warriors to protect the reincarnation of the goddess Athena. Escaflowne the girl from the alternate world is special. Kyo Kara Maoh the boy from the alternate world is special. InuYasha the girl from the future is a priestess. From Far Away the girl from the alternate world is special. Red River the girl from the alternate world is special.

Maybe it's a PLOT DEVICE to interest a girl reading the story, to see herself as the "outsider" & imagine herself in story better.

When I was younger I loved watching a show on TV called "It's About Time" about some Astronauts who wound up in the stone age (I swear Imogene Coco was in it, but I was 6 or 7). Who on this planet doesn't know the gimmick to Planet of the Apes?

Quote:
bright red hair.


Do an image search for Saint Seiya.
Blond, green, blue, yellow, purple come to mind

If you are trying to keep the characters separate, it pays to make them obviously different. I love Dragon Knights, but the characters do really look so much alike. I love Rath. I can tell Rath from everyone else. So it pays when one has a large recurring cast to make them easily identifiable.

Look at the NeoRomance title I'm praying will make it over if the Haruka anime does well-Angelique. Couple reds. White. Yellow. Black. Blue. Purple. Koyasu's character has yellow & pink. Look at Sukisho, a yaoi harem title--green pink, blue, red.

And when you have a dozen characters, one really doesn;t want them all to be the same thing, does one? So one would likely have a priest, a warrior, a farmer, a thief, a laborer, etc.

Miaka didn't drag her brother & his friend over. (12 Kingdoms did in the anime. Wow, another alternate world girl who came over to be queen. And the King of En was from Japan. And the Kiren for En & Tai lived in Japan. I believe it's a writer trick to make a foreign setting appeal to the reader)
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chichiriNoDa



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 532
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:16 pm Reply with quote
@CCSYueh sorry but I don't get what's the significant of your message to Haruka. I think your getting a bit off-topic.
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