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ANN Book Club: Texhnolyze.


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HellKorn



Joined: 03 Oct 2006
Posts: 1669
Location: Columbus, OH
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:28 pm Reply with quote
Ha, there are so many typos in my above posts. Serves me right for typing fast.

I'll get around to the next pair of episodes either tonight or tomorrow. Looking forward to 'em.

Aromatic Grass wrote:
HellKorn wrote:
Just a random aside: this is one of the best examples of anime on a low budget.

I would never have guessed. It looks good to me.


None of the ABe-series have sizeable budgets. There are occasional impressive episodes (episode four and the first half of eight of lain and Haibane, respectively, come to mind), but there's nothing really flashy. (Though the last episode of Texhnolyze has some really, really stunning bits.) The budget seems to be poured more into the art direction, and I'd say the results are more than satisfying.

(Also, compare Hamazaki's Shigurui, with less episodes, frequent animation in 2s and apparently being produced in HD, to Texhnolyze, and the difference is more noticeable.)

Quote:
Oh, I didn't notice that. To me it just seems like a playground for all of these groups to run around and kill each other and control others.


Well, it is, but more than that. You'll soon see.

Quote:
Doc is the only one besides Yoshii (obviously) who doesn't seem to fit in.


And Ran, right?
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Aromatic Grass



Joined: 31 Dec 2003
Posts: 2424
Location: Raleigh, NC
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:06 pm Reply with quote
HellKorn wrote:
And Ran, right?

I think she fits in, though definitely not by the way she acts. I sort of meant in that they look like they're from another place besides Lux.

Anyway...

Wow, so two days behind and I'm still the first to discuss these two episodes?

So episode three gives us a little bit of background on Ichise and his family. His father was killed in a pretty gruesome way and his mother died of some kind of illness when he was young. So, he was carrying around her cells in that little vial? It's a little sad because that was his only way of keeping connected with his mother, which shows that he at least has some emotions. Ichise still comes across as a wild animal, or "stray dog" as Onishi puts it, to me. Doc certainly treats him this way. Especially when she poured the water all over his face instead of giving it to him normally. And when she showed him his arm... that was pretty gross.

As for that little vial, Doc used Ichise's mother's cells to use for the texhnolyze unit. I kinda forgot the details, but I guess it needs this to function as living parts or something like that? At first I though Onishi had some special thing in his eyes so that he could see all those details on his limbs, but now I see those come through the attachment with the nervous system. All that stuff was kind of hard to follow the first time through, so I had to watch those particular scenes again just to be sure.

Ah, so according to Doc, Ichise's father worked on the stuff that helps the body from rejecting other limbs, which can only be found in Lux. Apparently people in this place lose their limbs a lot... But this connects to what Yoshii was talking about: how people can't heal themselves well anymore and that's why all this violence is taking place, and so people lose their limbs as punishment. Though I was curious as to what he meant about people's "self-healing abilities." Would that happen to be what you mentioned earlier, HK, about the city being an experimental one?

And Yoshii turns out to be texhnolyzed, too! Wow, I wonder how that happened.

By the way, I noticed that when he was walking around, his clothes made him appear much more colorful than the rest of the people around him. Oh yeah, and I noticed a lot of the Obelisk this time. It's creepy how it's in shadow all the time.

Onishi was a large part of these episodes, too. His assistant/wife(?) is rather spacey – is she even human? Anyway, I was curious as to what he discussed with those members from the Alliance because of the facial expression he wore afterward. At least we've now met all of the leaders of all these groups.

I was surprised how unresponsive Ichise was at the end when Doc connected the new units to his nervous system. That looked too painful for even him not to budge. But I guess it's to be expected at this point considering what he's been through the in the last two episodes. There were many other times when he made great expressions, though, like when Doc showed him his arm and after he was texhnolyzed.

I was equally surprised by his reaction to the new arm and leg. I expect to see more character development coming from him getting used to working with these parts that he doesn't want.

But the best part was the ending when Ran looked into Ichise's future and said, "I saw it," as if she were looking for something specific.
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halfadeckshort



Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 49
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:41 pm Reply with quote
It is at this point that I'll have to admit that I couldn't stop myself from watching the series all the way through, so I won't be making any more speculations, but I'll still throw in my two cents as far as interpretation goes. I'll have a few more comments later, but I wanted to point out a couple of quick things out based on Aromatic Grass's comments:

Aromatic Grass wrote:
And Yoshii turns out to be texhnolyzed, too! Wow, I wonder how that happened.


When the punk tears Yoshii's jacket and exposes his artificial limb, the punk says something about Yoshii being texhnolyzed, and Yoshii corrects him. In the English dub he says "That would have been nice," making it clear that though he does have an artificial limb, it is not texhnolyzed. I'll have to re-watch the episode again with the subtitles on to see if the text translation is as clear, but the point is that Yoshii's limb is different.

Quote:
Onishi was a large part of these episodes, too. His assistant/wife(?) is rather spacey – is she even human? Anyway, I was curious as to what he discussed with those members from the Alliance because of the facial expression he wore afterward.


Onishi's assistant is extremely competent, his wife, on the other hand, is extremely spacey. As to his expression, I think he was probably relieved to be alive... he did go in and face down an entire fanatical organization on his own, after all.

...

And I totally agree that the part with Ichise's decaying arm was rather gross. Doc is extremely harsh to him, but I think that she was trying to make the point that Ichise has no choice but to accept what she's done/is about to do to him, because without her, he'd be dead.
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fullmetal biologist



Joined: 17 Jun 2008
Posts: 61
Location: north carolina, usa
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:11 pm Reply with quote
Aromatic Grass wrote:


As for that little vial, Doc used Ichise's mother's cells to use for the texhnolyze unit. I kinda forgot the details, but I guess it needs this to function as living parts or something like that? At first I though Onishi had some special thing in his eyes so that he could see all those details on his limbs, but now I see those come through the attachment with the nervous system. All that stuff was kind of hard to follow the first time through, so I had to watch those particular scenes again just to be sure.


I guess since I'm a scientist, these are the part of the show I understand the best. I find the narrative pretty hard to follow but I entirely admit that I'm doing a surface-level viewing. I hope to someday have time to do a re-watch.

A few comments:
Doc is an interesting character, though her "bedside manner" (literally) isn't very ethical. She treats Ichise like a guinea pig and is very harsh. I will be interested to see her reactions to him in the future. Why did she save him - just to prove that she could? Or to try out new technology?

I am still not sure who is the hero of this series? Is Ichise an anti-hero? Or is it Yoshii, who seems to have a secret agenda? Which character is going to change and learn the most through the series?

I finally figured out that Ran's mask is a fox, which seems to represent her wisdom, cleverness, slyness.

"Lux" or Light doesn't seem a great name for this forbidding, dark, dirty city ruled by gangs, where people's bodies are losing the ability to heal. Are we going to find out why?
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BrothersElric



Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 1996
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:22 pm Reply with quote
Basically one of the only things I seem to have to say about these last two episodes for some reaosn (much to my discontent about myself right now in fact......) is that I indeed am starting to notice quite a bit more emotion from Ichise than was in the previous episodes. Like for one he's finally starting to talk, and for another he seems to be reacting to a whole lot more that's going on around him. Granted he was in the lab for pretty much the entire span of these episodes, and they were talking pretty much entirely about stuff that pertained to his own personal issues, but still..... Anyways, I guess really the only thing I have to say about it right now is that it seems to have come in coordination with us beginning to find out more about him. So basically it seems as if the more we learn about him the less mysterious his character is and therefore the more emotion he's starting to show, including acutal speech. I found that pretty interesting. Probably one of the only things I was able to observe about the episodes for some reason though...... I don't know, I've just seemed to be a lot that way lately.

halfadeckshort wrote:
Quote:
Onishi was a large part of these episodes, too. His assistant/wife(?) is rather spacey – is she even human? Anyway, I was curious as to what he discussed with those members from the Alliance because of the facial expression he wore afterward.


Onishi's assistant is extremely competent, his wife, on the other hand, is extremely spacey. As to his expression, I think he was probably relieved to be alive... he did go in and face down an entire fanatical organization on his own, after all.


This was another thing I took away from this episode as well, basically just the curiosity as to what he was up to in there and why he was the way he was coming out of it. In fact that's pretty much just what I assumed myself at first as well, that he was just glad to be out of there. I could easily see how going into a place like that full of those kinds of people would be a very scary situation to confront. Of course that was just first reaction to it, I couldn't help but think there might have been more to it or something, but I don't know......
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halfadeckshort



Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 49
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:54 pm Reply with quote
BrothersElric wrote:
Of course that was just first reaction to it, I couldn't help but think there might have been more to it or something, but I don't know......


One of the things that Onishi says in this episode is that "the city does not wish for a spectacle now." This comment, and the stakes that Onishi is playing for, will make more sense when his role in the city becomes clearer. What is evident in episode four is that he went to parlay with the Salvation Union leader despite the fact that some Union members tried to assassinate him. He's obviously trying to protect something that he values more than his own life.
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HellKorn



Joined: 03 Oct 2006
Posts: 1669
Location: Columbus, OH
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:00 pm Reply with quote
Miscellaneous

- Did you know that Texhnolyze actually exists? Or more appropriately, Techno Rise?

Episode 03

- We're shown glimpses of Ichise's past. His crying mother runs with him in hand to the Raffia work area. Ichise's father had all four of his limbs cut off and he has been hung. A few years later we're shown his mother in a decrepit state, with Ichise unable to do anything to help her. Keep both of these fates in mind because they'll be very, very important later.

- Doc is a rather emotionally-cold woman, aye? Her treatment of Ichise throughout this episode shows a deep sense of superiority and callouseness.

- Please tell me I'm not the only one who found that scene with Onishi and his wife to be hilarious. One of the few lighter moments in an otherwise dark story.

- "Flesh fundamentalists" -- I like it. We'll become familiar with the Salvation Union at last in the next episode, but this is a nice display of Onishi's cunning and charisma.

- The emphasis on the pain of loss is strong here. Ichise has lost irreplaceable things -- his parents and two of his limbs -- yet still clings to them and is unable to move on. The animators do a very good job with facial expressions here, particularly the eyes -- the look that Ichise has when Doc shows him his dead arm still lingers in my head.

Episode 04

- Yoshii conveys some interesting background information here: Lux has seen a change of powers recently, and it's implied that it's not the first time, either. The Elder of Gabe -- then known as the Elder of the Mountain -- had his power ceeded by the Organo by means of force (though obviously maintains a protective relationship with them). He has rather interesting knowledge in that little book of his: a picture of Onishi at a young age, information about the Rakan* and the isolated members of the Class, who live on the Hill (we'll get a gander at them in the next set of episodes).

*In Japanese, Rakan is a variant of Arhat -- something that is absolutely central to the thrust of this series. This is also some a fascinating piece that has bits mirroed in Texhnolyze, particularly with the rift between the thought systems operating behind the Organo and the Salvation Union.

- Speaking of the Organo and Salvation Union: I love the scene where Onishi meets with Kimata. The yells and answers, along with the lighting around their symbol and their syncronatic movements indicate much of a hive mind. It's powerfully intimidating -- even Onishi seems a bit overwhelmed when they all turn to him.

- Yoshii delivers a very, extremely, TREMENDOUSLY important line here. He remarks that the residents of Lux have had their natural regenative abilities decline for some time. The way this is stated is so casual and seemingly unimportant at the time that I think most -- if any -- viewers wouldn't give it a second thought. Hell, I didn't pay attention to it until now. But everyone watching this must keep this in mind, because Yoshii's factoid is going to show its consequences in unexpected, signficant ways later on.

- Also, about Yoshii himself: he doesn't seem to have much stamina; he has provided himself with artificial limbs (though not texhnolyze, he laments); yet he also seems quite capable of taking care of himself (as evidenced by his beatdown of the Rakan punks and his possession of firearms). There's also that book of his with information on the history of Lux. Just what is he up to?

- Ichise's story continues with him being given a lecture on the process of texhnolyzation by Doc, before she proceeds to have sex with him. (I find it amusing that throughout all of Konaka's major works, sexual relations is generally portrayed as a cold, impassioned and sterile activity. Can't say anymore without making this deviation longer than it should be, but the developments that Texhnolyze takes in this is quite similar to lain. So keep Doc's view of Ichise in mind as, like so many other things in this series, will pop up later.) Raffia, what we saw the men working on in episode two and the job of Ichise's father (all of this taking place near the ever-present Obelisk!), is imperative to connecting the texhnolyze with its owner. (Doc also states that she sees no reason to make texhnolyzed limbs as mere substitutes for the lost arms and legs, like the previous generations. She concerns herself with bettering the technology.)

- The episode ends with Ichise freaking out over his texhnolyzed limbs. (Oh, yeah, and about Doc supposedly implementing the cells of Ichise's mother in the arm?. "Pay attention, because it will be echoed later.") As he returns to the cold streets of Lux, he passes by Ran. "I saw it," she says -- his future? This encounter and what develops from it is the most important aspect of Texhnolyze, so sit back and enjoy the ride.

Ending Theme

- Forgot to comment on this in the first discussion. Ah well; probably will stay with others more now that there's been a link established between Ran and flowers.

- There's not much here, with the exception of one poignant, swirling image of Ran with a flower in place of her mouth. This symbolism becomes important immediately in the next episode, so, like always, keep it in mind.

Aromatic Grass wrote:
HellKorn wrote:
And Ran, right?

I think she fits in, though definitely not by the way she acts. I sort of meant in that they look like they're from another place besides Lux.


I find Ran's appearance to be peculiar to her environment, though. Red hair with an eyes that don't have color like any other characters? (That she's the only character who isn't over 18 -- Ichise's the youngest after her, at 19 -- is also an oddity.) There's only one other character whose visage is so striking, and they've yet to appear, so...

Quote:
As for that little vial, Doc used Ichise's mother's cells to use for the texhnolyze unit. I kinda forgot the details, but I guess it needs this to function as living parts or something like that?


Pay attention to what Doc states on the phone at the end of episode four. In all cases texhnolyze requires Raffia to work; however, Doc is using something else in its place. Ichise is a special case to her -- a guinea pig as fullmetal biologist states.

Quote:
Apparently people in this place lose their limbs a lot... But this connects to what Yoshii was talking about: how people can't heal themselves well anymore and that's why all this violence is taking place, and so people lose their limbs as punishment. Though I was curious as to what he meant about people's "self-healing abilities." Would that happen to be what you mentioned earlier, HK, about the city being an experimental one?


Yes, this does involve what I meant with Lux being an experimental city.

(As an aside: it's kind of amusing that Yoshii's remark, which I noted above as being generally missed by viewers, is being picked up by a lot of members on this thread. Nice.)

I take Yoshii's statement about the degradation of self-healing abilities to mean that the bodies of the people of Lux are slowly failing. Their immune systems, physical strengths, etc. are being eroded. This comes up again, like I state above, though it's not directly referred to.

Quote:
And Yoshii turns out to be texhnolyzed, too!


Not texhnolyzed, but he has supplemented himself with a mechanical limb of sorts.

Quote:
At least we've now met all of the leaders of all these groups.


You haven't met the Class yet. Very Happy

fullmetal biologist wrote:
I am still not sure who is the hero of this series?


There really isn't a "hero" of sorts in Texhnolyze. An argument could be made that there aren't any villians in the series, either. Those shades of grey will be dealt with later, though.

If you're looking for the central protagonist, it's definitely Ichise. The development and conclusion of his character is pretty much what Texhnolyze is about, if one wants a simplistic definition of the meaning of the series.

Quote:
I finally figured out that Ran's mask is a fox, which seems to represent her wisdom, cleverness, slyness.


Also, Ran means chaos. Important to consider.

Quote:
"Lux" or Light doesn't seem a great name for this forbidding, dark, dirty city ruled by gangs, where people's bodies are losing the ability to heal. Are we going to find out why?


One thing that I've seen a few fans on the net talk about is that there are apparently some translation errors in the show, at least in episodes for the latter half. I can't attest to this, as I do not know Japanese, but I do find some of the adaption choices to be rather odd. "Lukussu" is clearly meant to be "Lux" (Latin for light), not "Lukussu." "Organo" should be "Organ" (though I use the former out of habit), "Racan" should be "Rakan," and so on.

However, in spite of these possible mistakes, a lot of what does come through is still discernable by the visuals and narrative itself. There IS an answer (or answers) as to why people's abilities to heal are failing in Lux.

BrothersElric wrote:
halfadeckshort wrote:
Quote:
Onishi was a large part of these episodes, too. His assistant/wife(?) is rather spacey – is she even human? Anyway, I was curious as to what he discussed with those members from the Alliance because of the facial expression he wore afterward.


Onishi's assistant is extremely competent, his wife, on the other hand, is extremely spacey. As to his expression, I think he was probably relieved to be alive... he did go in and face down an entire fanatical organization on his own, after all.


This was another thing I took away from this episode as well, basically just the curiosity as to what he was up to in there and why he was the way he was coming out of it. In fact that's pretty much just what I assumed myself at first as well, that he was just glad to be out of there. I could easily see how going into a place like that full of those kinds of people would be a very scary situation to confront. Of course that was just first reaction to it, I couldn't help but think there might have been more to it or something, but I don't know......


"Sometimes a pendering gang war is just a pending gang war."

Onishi likely has to deal with setting guidelines about Kimata keeping his dogs on a leash, and he'll do the same for the Organo. Rather stressful position, to essentially be mediating in order to maintain the tranquility of the city (well, as much as a place like Lux can be tranquil).

That's one aspect of Onishi's character that will come under scrutiny later by another: his drive to appeal to everyone and attempt to reign any unnecessary action in. Won't say anything more until that set of episodes comes up.

@halfadeckshort: Since you've finished it, can you tell me your quick thoughts about Texhnolyze? Without spoilers, of course?
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halfadeckshort



Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 49
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:47 pm Reply with quote
HellKorn wrote:
@halfadeckshort: Since you've finished it, can you tell me your quick thoughts about Texhnolyze? Without spoilers, of course?


I'm still chewing on the ending... I can't say much more than that without thinking that I'm going to spoil something. I love the way that the images in the series are used again and again, but with different associations each time. One of my favorites is Ichise's form on the table in episode three. Is he really alive or is he dead? Is he in a body bag, or a cocoon? That image fascinated me on my first viewing, and there are two moments later on in the series that echo that image in an extremely powerful way (I know that there are more repetitions, but those two really hit me).

And I think I'm going to leave it there for now. I'm re-watching the episodes as they're being discussed because there is no possible way to absorb everything in one viewing. The nice thing is that Texhnolyze is good enough to stand immediate repeat viewings.

Oh, and one last thing that may get me flamed... Victoria Harwood has a hot voice.

(Okay, I typed that last bit as I was listening to ep 3 in the background, and I remembered one other thing I had to mention about the series. I think the music is incredible. At a lot of places it reminds me of Vangelis' score for Blade Runner. It's very effective at conveying the tone of the show, and at times it's even beautiful.)

I'm glad you guys decided to discuss this one.
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halfadeckshort



Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 49
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:27 am Reply with quote
One other thing that I think is important to mention at this point: the relationship between a person and a texhnolyze limb is a symbiotic one. Texhnolyze limbs are living things, which apparently need a host to survive. Doc directly states that if Ichise refuses the limbs he will be killing the cells of his mother that she used for their biocircuits - the limbs cannot live on their own. In return for their continued life, the limbs provide restored shape and functionality to the bearer, communicating/negotiating through the bearer's nervous system and responding to the bearer's will.

I bring this up because this is only one of the levels of symbiosis that is present in the city. The others become clearer in later episodes, but I wanted to mention this while Doc's explanations are fresh in everyone's minds.

....

On a random note, I find it strange that the chant of the Salvation Union: "Soul! Body! Truth! Salvation! Vengeance!" is left untranslated in the English dub. I realize that it would throw the timing way off if they had to pronounce all the syllables of the translated words (rather than the single syllables in Japanese), but if someone were only watching the dub the Union's chant wouldn't make much sense. It would have been nice for there to be another "signs" subtitle layer with that information in it, but I guess you can't have everything. /nitpick
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halfadeckshort



Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 49
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:42 pm Reply with quote
HellKorn wrote:
Also, Ran means chaos. Important to consider.


I keep thinking about this, and it's making me reconsider a lot of the things I thought the first time through the series. In particular, the scene with Ran and Yoshii on the train, when Yoshii says "I'm indebted to you and your grandfather. I will do whatever I can to help you. Although this world, Lux, is a place completely unfamiliar to me."

The fact that, in a later scene, he has a book with so much detail on Lux leads to two distinct possibilities. One, he was lying about his unfamiliarity, or two, he doesn't possess/read the book until after his contact with the residents of Gabe. Initially I held on to the theory that he was lying, but thinking about it again I'm starting to believe that the book was given to him after he reached Gabe.

How exactly that relates to Ran's name, I'm reluctant to say at the moment because of spoilerish possibilities. I'll be able to talk about it more in another few episodes if memory serves.

Sorry to keep adding posts, but I haven't completely organized my thoughts yet, and I keep finding things I should have noticed the first time around.
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HellKorn



Joined: 03 Oct 2006
Posts: 1669
Location: Columbus, OH
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:31 pm Reply with quote
Hope that others will post about these episodes before the next batch. If not, however, I will say this: the upcoming set of episodes at last begins the pay-off I suspect a lot of viewers are yearning for. There's a lot that will happen in this arc (which ends at episode 10), with some genuinely shocking reveals and events. Looking forward to everyones' thoughts.

halfadeckshort wrote:
One of my favorites is Ichise's form on the table in episode three. Is he really alive or is he dead? Is he in a body bag, or a cocoon?


Nice way of looking at it. (I also like how Doc's room for experiments is Kubrickian white-on-white, while Ichise is wrapped up a black bag. There's also Doc's blonde hair contrasted to Ichise's raven hair.)

A lot of the images and characters have potential dual meanings, actually: there's something to counterbalance each positive or negative attribute for the cast members.

Quote:
Oh, and one last thing that may get me flamed... Victoria Harwood has a hot voice.


How could you be flamed for the truth?

While I prefer the Japanese track for Texhnolyze (like I do for most anime), the casting for the English dub is pretty nice (though some choices, like Yoshii's, are noticeably different).

Quote:
(Okay, I typed that last bit as I was listening to ep 3 in the background, and I remembered one other thing I had to mention about the series. I think the music is incredible. At a lot of places it reminds me of Vangelis' score for Blade Runner. It's very effective at conveying the tone of the show, and at times it's even beautiful.)


Shame that airy piece playing during Ichise's awakening isn't on either of the soundtracks; there are a few other bits of music that aren't on them, as well.

I completely recommend buying the two CDs while they're still available, though.

halfadeckshort wrote:
One other thing that I think is important to mention at this point: the relationship between a person and a texhnolyze limb is a symbiotic one. Texhnolyze limbs are living things, which apparently need a host to survive. Doc directly states that if Ichise refuses the limbs he will be killing the cells of his mother that she used for their biocircuits - the limbs cannot live on their own. In return for their continued life, the limbs provide restored shape and functionality to the bearer, communicating/negotiating through the bearer's nervous system and responding to the bearer's will.


It's important to deferiantiate the type of texhnolyze Ichise has -- one connected to and empowered apparently by his mother's cells -- and the more general type -- those powered by Raffia. -- as this will be brought up later.

halfadeckshort wrote:
The fact that, in a later scene, he has a book with so much detail on Lux leads to two distinct possibilities. One, he was lying about his unfamiliarity, or two, he doesn't possess/read the book until after his contact with the residents of Gabe. Initially I held on to the theory that he was lying, but thinking about it again I'm starting to believe that the book was given to him after he reached Gabe.


Can't say why yet, but Yoshii had ownership of the book before he arrived in Gabe.
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Aromatic Grass



Joined: 31 Dec 2003
Posts: 2424
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:09 pm Reply with quote
Wow, okay, so I meant to respond to everyone today but then the power went out for, like, half the day. The Internet followed soon after. And I'll be working on a project all the rest of tonight and tomorrow, so expect to see some real discussion from me afterward. This is seriously terrible timing. ;___;

September 16-22 schedule:

Episodes 5-7: "Loiter," "Repetition," & "Pilot."

I'm really looking forward to these episodes. Excitement! Very Happy
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halfadeckshort



Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 49
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:29 pm Reply with quote
Just my thoughts on episode 5 for now:

Episode 5: Loiter

*The rooftop conversation between Yoshii and Shinji is interesting in that Shinji insists that he, and the people in the Rakan, are free. Yoshii makes the point that "true freedom can't lean on anything" and tells Shinji that he, and his freedom, belong to Lux. The implication here is that Shinji is not truly free and, by extension, neither is anyone in the city.

(As an aside, the dialog out takes on this disc are hilarious. The one related to this scene, "The Perils of Alchohol [sic]" cracked me up even though I totally saw it coming.)

*Another bit of dialog that deserves highlighting for future discussion is Shinji and Yoshii's conversation about the surface. Shinji asks if there is anything there and Yoshii replies: "There is if you think so. There isn't if you don't."

*The prostitute, Mari, provides more information for Yoshii, detailing the boundaries of the territories possessed by the various gangs. "It's pretty different," he remarks as he takes his notes.

@HellKorn - I'm still looking for the source of the original notes, obviously I've missed something somewhere.

*Mari reveals her body, which is covered by scars. She was injured by her husband, who used to be "somebody." Apparently he angered a rival gang, and was emasculated, after which he took out his frustrations on his wife. This is a direct expression of the truth of the city that Yoshii expressed earlier: people in the city exert power over one another by destroying each other's body parts.

*The sex scene between Yoshii and Mari is made conspicuous by the absence of any truly explicit material. What we see are the almost tender moments before and after the implied act: Yoshii telling Mari that she is beautiful and then, afterward, covering her sleeping form with the sheet, resting his hand upon her scarred shoulder, and promising that he will set her free. The portrayal of sex in this scene is the opposite of the two scenes that we've been shown in the past - Ichise with the promoter's lover, and then with Doc - where the act of sex was explicitly shown, but none of the human tenderness was conveyed.

*The images of the train interspersed with Yoshii walking, both of them pressing on, unstoppable, toward their destinations. This is contrasted sharply by the stumbling figure of Ichise, who falls several times in this episode.

*Yoshii guns down the husband/pimp; the train passes, the shells fall, and the scene cuts back to Mari in bed, modestly covered with the sheet, obviously dead. One has to wonder whether the killing of these two was motivated by the need for Yoshii to obscure his actions, or by mercy. The first time through the episode I felt a sense of justice as the husband/pimp was gunned down, and then a sense of outrage as the camera focused on the still form of Mari, whom Yoshii had promised freedom. In the end though, after much reflection, it seems that Yoshii kept his word in the only way that he could to ensure that she'd never have to lean on anything again, lending weight to his assertion that "...half measures won't do."

*Ichise, guided by Ran's flowers, finds his way through the maze of the sewers and breaks through the bars imprisoning him (further commentary reserved for future discussion).

I'll post my thoughts on episode 6 and 7 in the next day or two. A lot of important things are going on here.
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HellKorn



Joined: 03 Oct 2006
Posts: 1669
Location: Columbus, OH
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:01 pm Reply with quote
Bit hurried for time here. Had a storm on Sunday cause Ohio to enter a state of emergency, and the power wasn't on for our family until late Monday. Computer wasn't so lucky, so it's in the shop -- I'm using a friend's right now.

I'll try to give a more detailed post tomorrow about all three episodes. (Seriously, why aren't more people commenting? Were all the posters in the first two pages just illusions meant to play with my mind?) The series has finally established its setting and characters to the point where the tension has mounted and has begun to explode as Yoshii now begins to move forward with his plan...

(Also, episode six is perhaps the most important episode of the first half of the series in detailing the plot and world of Texhnolyze. There is an enormous amount of information given there, both aural and visual, that will pop up in the second half.)

halfadeckshort wrote:
*The prostitute, Mari, provides more information for Yoshii, detailing the boundaries of the territories possessed by the various gangs. "It's pretty different," he remarks as he takes his notes.

@HellKorn - I'm still looking for the source of the original notes, obviously I've missed something somewhere.


My take is that Yoshii came down with the notes in order to have knowledge about Lux and its residents. He needed to update his information, thus his inquiries in episodes five and six. It's also heavily implied that the changing of eye color (incredibly important for the final episodes) and, by extension, Spectacles have occurred repeatedly in Lux. I wouldn't be surprised if these past outbursts of violence are orchestrated by outside powers, such as Yoshii.

Quote:
The first time through the episode I felt a sense of justice as the husband/pimp was gunned down, and then a sense of outrage as the camera focused on the still form of Mari, whom Yoshii had promised freedom. In the end though, after much reflection, it seems that Yoshii kept his word in the only way that he could to ensure that she'd never have to lean on anything again, lending weight to his assertion that "...half measures won't do."


This type of all-or-nothing attitude is something crucial to how Lux will be shaped as the series goes on. (Pun fully intended, for those who have seen all of the show.)

I also wonder if Yoshii's attitude about freedom is reflective of his experiences from the world above. Can't say anything more for now...

Quote:
*Ichise, guided by Ran's flowers, finds his way through the maze of the sewers and breaks through the bars imprisoning him (further commentary reserved for future discussion).


Yeah, that scene could actually be a summation of the series.

(Oh, and there is a lot of music not on the albums. There's even a track from each of these episodes, if I recall correctly, that's absent from both CDs...)
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halfadeckshort



Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 49
PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:03 am Reply with quote
HellKorn wrote:
My take is that Yoshii came down with the notes in order to have knowledge about Lux and its residents. He needed to update his information, thus his inquiries in episodes five and six. It's also heavily implied that the changing of eye color (incredibly important for the final episodes) and, by extension, Spectacles have occurred repeatedly in Lux. I wouldn't be surprised if these past outbursts of violence are orchestrated by outside powers, such as Yoshii.


Hmm. The first time through the episodes my thoughts about Yoshii's notes were similar to yours, but I'm gathering information to support a conspiracy theory that I hinted around in one of my earlier posts. I agree that Yoshii is an outsider, but I don't think that he, or any other true outsiders, are responsible for orchestrating the Spectacles: in the context of the Spectacles, I see Yoshii as a catalyst rather than an outside force.

Quote:
(Oh, and there is a lot of music not on the albums. There's even a track from each of these episodes, if I recall correctly, that's absent from both CDs...)


I can see where they would have to drop a lot of the music to keep the soundtrack to two volumes. Is the piece that's playing as Ichise is making his way through the sewer in episode 5 on there (I believe it's a cello that comes in at the 15:28 mark)? Laughing... I just need to hurry up and buy the darn things. I would have bought them during the last TRSI Geneon sale if I had watched Texhnolyze earlier.

--------------

Notes on episodes 6 and 7:

Rogue 6: Repetition

*I like how this episode is looped, beginning and ending with the voice of the caretaker ("Old Man at Facility" in the credits). Extremely appropriate for an episode entitled "Repetition."

*The caretaker mentions that "The city folks' eyes changed colors. No, it's not a figure of speech, no. Their eyes did change colors, and that's a fact." He also mentions, as HellKorn pointed out, that maybe it wasn't the first time that they had changed.

*Apparently, at one time the source of the light was shut down for 6 days, and it led to mass hysteria in the city. It seems that the light in Lux is extremely important for maintaining order. It's also interesting that the control of the light is a manual process.

*Another amusing scene with Onishi's wife, who is having a "conversation with the city" on a phone that is unplugged. Though she's obviously not all there, she does tell Onishi that the city talks to her as well. Relating this back to the caretaker's earlier comments, the idea that the city has an influence on its inhabitants is underscored a bit more.

*Ichise returns to the place where he was maimed, and it seems that he is beginning to come to terms with his new limbs. As the episode progresses, his limbs begin to communicate better with his nervous system, but at one point Ichise pauses and says: "this is supposed to be my leg." This will be echoed again later.

(As an aside... is the place where Ichise lost his limbs the same place where his father was hanged? It's probably just similar, but I need to re-watch episode 3 again.)

*Yoshii seems to recognize the train engineer. This will be confirmed in episode 7.

*Doc, angry, kicks the bumper of her vehicle and breaks her heel. I think this is relevant because we're actually seeing a little more emotion out of Doc in this episode. Her destination, and what originally caused her to be ill tempered, will be shown later.

*Onishi summons Ishii (the one responsible for maiming Ichise, and dumping him in the sewer in the last episode) to ask if he's made any progress in finding Ichise. Ishii lies, and I think it's important to note his disobedience. Not everyone agrees with Onishi's way of running the Organo. I emphasize this because it'll become more important in the next episode.

*Yoshii reveals that Doc was a member of the class, and then speaks of the Raffia. The key points are that Raffia can only be collected in the center of Lux, it isn't a naturally occurring phenomenon, and it is responsible for keeping the human race alive (through transplantation) for longer than would have been naturally possible. At this point we still aren't given any hints as to what Raffia actually is.

*Yoshii questions Doc's motives and she makes a point to say that Texhnolyzation isn't just a means for extending life, it is the means through which mankind will evolve.

*Ichise sees Ishii driving by, and we see further proof of the enhancements that Doc has made to Ichise's limbs as he easily catches up with the car.

*Ichise beats Ishii with his human hand while Ran watches on. She says "good boy, good boy" further reinforcing the image of Ichise as a dog. I'll have more to say about Ran's apparent approval of Ichise's actions later on in the series.


Rogue 7: Plot

*Doc finally catches up with Ichise. She holds his Texhnolyzed arm, and brings the back of his hand up to her cheek. The difference between this behavior and the way she treated him while he was on the operating table is vast. As in the last episode, Doc's actions and interactions seem to become more human. She fits his arm and leg with the external covers, telling him that he's finally become her type. He doesn't take that well, but it doesn't seem to bother Doc.

*The subject of will comes up again (echoing the conversation between Onishi and Doc at the end of episode 3). Doc says: "I wonder by whose will is he being kept alive? Yours? Mine? Or the city of Lux?" It is interesting at this point that Ichise's will isn't mentioned at all.

*Doc, seeing that her taste in men has failed her, decides to take the rat home. Wink

*Yoshii eyes the telephone lines that will become significant later in the episode, and then he is sitting with Sakimura, the man he had recognized in the previous episode. Sakimura speaks of himself, or rather the man who used to live on the surface, as being dead. He has become someone else in Lux. The point is made that nothing has changed up above.

*Yoshii, disguised, begins to wreak havoc. Flashbacks to his conversation with Sakimura reveal more details of the tensions and conflicts between the Organo and the Union. Yoshii uses the Union's chant and guns down a group of Organo members that were walking down the street.

*One of the men is left alive, unmanned, and the scene cuts to the leaders of the Organo who are discussing the attack. They joke about whether or not it would be a good idea to Texhnolyze his manhood. Though it is a joke to them, as we have seen it is no laughing matter for the person affected (like the pimp from episode 5). The old men mention a Spectacle as the means to get the lower ranks back under control.

*Onishi maintains that it is not time for a Spectacle, and the other heads of the organization are obviously disappointed with his decision. This scene, and the way that Ishii disobeyed Onishi's orders in the last episode give a sense that the Organo is not as unified as it seems.

*Yoshii continues to spread chaos, and Onishi receives visions of him. Though it is clear to Onishi that someone is trying to cause a fight between the Organo and the Union, it appears that the events are beginning to spiral out of Onishi's control.

*Though the episode revolves around Yoshii, we also see Shinji's attempt to persuade Ichise to join the Rakan. Though he seems to be friendly, it is shown that he's just looking for another weapon to further the Rakan's interests. Again, we're given a look at other people's designs for Ichise, but we don't really see any expression of his own will besides his attempts to come to terms with himself.

---------

I know that a lot of this is summary, rather than opinion, but I wanted to point out the things/images that I felt will be important for the rest of the series.
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