Forum - View topicChicks On Anime - Copyright Enforcement
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LordRedhand
 Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
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Wishful thinking on your part as that was release number 2 that your talking about but his first one? Failed. Hard. Also some food for thought.
Industry responding to illegal downloading http://www.elon.edu/pendulum/Story.aspx?id=830 Artists responding against Illegal Downloading http://www.thelocal.se/1295/20050418/ http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1445111/20010712/metallica.jhtml Personal favorite part of latter article
Which is why I ask what's stopping fansubbers from obtaining the license to do what they do, you know ask the studios and creators permission and prove their model instead of stealing it. Response we don't have the money, well gues what fans find a way to support what they like, they could find a way to make money to make their model work to, we see it happening on some of their sites to, asking people to donate, but none of that money goes back to the artist. So it's all about respect, if a creator wants to release his work for free I have no problem, it is their right to do so, but saying well they aren't releasing it the way I want so I'll take it is selfish. |
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Seljuk
 Posts: 139 |
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I have never bought a series that I have not watched in its entirety, whether downloading or streaming. While I watch a lot of media online, I do buy back and own quite a bit of media. I don't feel like what I'm doing is wrong at all. I watch, and them if I deem my enjoyment of it high enough, I buy. Especially if it can be enjoyed by my peers, as watching anime with people is usually always better.
That being said, one of my favorite series of all time, Higurashi, I do not own. I place the value of this show very high on my scale, I had a lot of fun watching it unfold with one of my good friends. I then look at the full price of owning it- market price for all the DVDs hovers around $180. Reduce it through sales, and its still $120. I'm in college. Paying for other things comes first. I feel no obligation to pay what I feel is a ridiculous price, despite my value for the series being so high. Not all of us have money coming out of our ears. Also, do any of you feel it was wrong for me to download Ever 17? While I suppose it is still copyrighted, but the parent company and US distributor are both defunct. Should I have grilled the online market for a used copy? It would not have helped those businesses which have already failed. |
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edzieba
Posts: 704 |
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And let's talk about Napster for a moment. They created a centralised, billable distribution system for music. They accrued a huge base of users. They then approached the recording industry with 'hey, we have all these people who want to pay for this music, but it won't cost you a thing to distribute, will you take their money"? Response: you are KILLING TEH INDUSTRY, lawsuitservicekill. And now music sharing is split amongst several services and distributed trackers, impossible to shut down, impossible to bill. |
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Yuki_Kun45
Exempt from Grammar Rules
 Posts: 725 Location: U.S.A. |
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When the argument of "isn't ANIME FREE IN JAPAN?" He should have mentioned the Japanese pay a TV tax for NHK. So no Anime isn't free for them either. Not exactly free here either unless all you do is watch Bleach or Naruto.
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Dante80
 Posts: 218 Location: Athens Greece |
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You actually don't have to pay for the NHK tax...its not mandatory, no fine there...moot point. Also, it doesn't have anything to do with anime anyway. All people pay the tax, so that Japan can have a state owned public channel(s, thats 6 TV and 3 radio channels). That aside (and the fact that your remote can kill any ad thrusted into you), in Japan people get hundrends of hours of anime every week at free high definition television. And then go pay for sattelite or cable channels (if they want reruns, no ads, or the schedules are more to your liking), DVDs etc etc. The Japanese model is completely different from the us one. In R1land, you are obliged to pay to gain access and view the content. In Japan, you pay to buy merchandise, media and products for content you have already seen for free (or for a...very small fee if you think it as per eps). Legal streaming is starting to change that, hopefully...^^ |
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Daizo
Posts: 139 |
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So in your personal opinion you think it's wrong, and that somehow people think of artists and whatnot as "tools" when they get their products for free even if they pay for them afterwards resulting in the same profit as might have happened otherwise. Sure, whatever, although your "logic" sounds completely silly to my ears.
And there you go again to say "it's bad because it's illegal!" Do I still need to remind you that laws can change and that they aren't set into stone? How would you react if non-profit file-sharing was made legal, making fansubbing completely legal? |
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LordRedhand
Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
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Yeah when you have a group that is considering buying an island so that they can continue their activities or with Napster not asking the artists whose work they were using to make that moneyuddenly I don't think "I can't afford to license it!" becomes a screen to hide behind over actual challenge because again it more of I don't want to work with the system I want to stick it to the "man". @ Daizo: Philosophy it's fun! You want to know why my arguement sounds like "It's illegal!" is bacause my philosophy that I ascribe to is used not ony here but Latin America, Europe and parts of Asia so my "looney" theroy of treating people like people with respectm, not treting them as a means to an end. Here is a short primer http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/20668/the_ethical_theory_of_kantianism.html?cat=47 So when you have someone objectifying a group of people this leads to the question what can you do with an object? You can break them, you can throw it away, you can trade it for something else. So when you start down that road with people you can break them, you can throw them away, you can trade them for something else. So when an action does that to someone it's wrong regardless of what you do afterwards because you have now objectified the people in the process and are treating them as something less than human, I don't think that sounds silly or illogical either |
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Dante80
Posts: 218 Location: Athens Greece |
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Actually, it does even more now...you were better off (but still dead wrong) with the copyright infringement=theft stuff. You are now indirectly saying that the fansubbing community is actively enslaving people in the media industry... 
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bayoab
Posts: 831 |
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Another myth fansubs have created. Let's just say nobody in Japan knows how many shows are airing in HD but consensus is that it is maybe half. Also, a handful of new shows only air on premium (pay) stations.
*"Free" meaning things like Netflix.
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LordRedhand
Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
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See this is the thing why is their a fear of if fansubs went away there would be anime fans that would leave? or that if anime went away they wouldn't care? That is objectification and fansub enable it the fact that we have people who believe that buying a figure gives them the right to steal a show, or that because it is not released how they want it to they can continue to take it without permission because it is their right to do so. So when I say the anime industry, I believe what some fans see is a building but they don't see the people and disrespect them in doing so as they treat them as a means to an end (for entertainment) so are treating them as something less than human, and disregarding their wishes, the industry, the Japanese Government, Artist and creators of series have asked you to stop and have shown that while it is not the end al be all of the industry woes it's a cause of them, and fansubbers disrespect that.
So really it boils down to the ends don't justify the means. In this case I've bought anime products because I took the series without permission. |
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Dante80
Posts: 218 Location: Athens Greece |
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Thats true. I haven't seen though many people saying that they chose not to buy a show because the end was bad. And I'm willing to bet that most of them wouldn't buy it anyway, so they are completely irrelevant anyway... I used the fundamental differences in the distribution model to explain why the need for simulcasting and legal streaming is dire. There must be a change in the distribution industry, moving the focus from restricting the access to content from the fans to capitalizing on the value the content gives to fans. The consumer will not continue to buy from guilt, will not buy to support a wrong system. At least that is my view. Dto and simulcasting is the future in this business. Physical media as the main way to distribute the content must die and will die. They are costly, inefficient, cumbersome and outdated. Physical media can and should be used though to add more value to the content. There will always be a market for them. But the industry must refocus. And the scary part, is that some people here (and inside the industry) see the long needed steps towards digital distribution as "a favor" that the distributors unwillingly have to grant to "bad" consumers. 
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MisterH
Posts: 30 |
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I record TV using my computer and a tuner card, and then use software to remove the ads.
Is this a different crime in comparison to watching a fansub instead of a Crunchyroll stream? |
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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This argument only works in context when you've given these reasons yourself for copyright, which I think you have failed to do. The reasons you give are simply insufficient to anyone who doesn't have your axiom, namely, that we should seek "permission to copy" before we can. Once you remove that your entire argument is based on nothing more than "I told you so." There isn't a "shark" in your scenario, there's you telling them "I don't want you to swim." They ask why and you say "because...I said so."
This type of argument depends on resources that are scarce. They can't see a sky without you unless you aren't there, because there is only one sky, only one sunset in that direction. This argument simply doesn't apply because if the sunset could be copied in the way these things can be you both could have what you wanted without any agreement.
So every instance of downloading a fansub causes harm now? Please explain exactly what the harm is for those who are not only downloading but buying what they view? If your explanation relies on what other people are doing I'll call that epic fail, because it's not what I've asked. You need to prove that every instance of downloading or copying illegally is harmful. You are talking about "sharks" but I don't see the "shark" in the situation, because you keep talking about harm that you can't validate exists.
When did I say "you can do something means you should"? If you read my prior statements in full you'd be flat out dishonest to suggest that I meant this in my post. I made it clear I do believe people should care about what they are doing, why they are doing it, and the effects it has on other people. The problem with your position is it's against copying without permission in all cases, not just those that are harmful.
You have utterly failed at this point to describe the "harm" you are referring to here. I'm sorry, but you just aren't making the grade on supporting your argument. |
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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Corey Smith was a high school teacher, doing weekend music gigs. Then, apparently, his manager had a revelation and started giving all of his music away for free: and last year Corey brought in $4.2 million. Raise your hand if you heard of this artist. $4.2 million. I don't know about you, but I believe many would be quite happy with this income. Please don't narrow your definition of change to "popularity", as it doesn't apply. We're discussing the models in use, and anyone can use them. Question is: What the hell is stopping them from using them? Oh, yeah. Giving things away for $0 is just wrong. As I've said before, I've done this model (and am about to do it again). While I may not be rich or popular, the income was enough to pay the bills or spend it on shiny objects. All this while working at a *ahem* real job. Oh, and Zac, certainly you know how well this this model works when there's a clear distinction between a subscriber and non-subscriber while giving information (valuable, I might add) for free, all the while your popularity is non-existent outside the anime world. 
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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Couldn't the same question be asked when artists get anywhere between $0.08-$0.12 per download? The percentage still remains. So, that one hit wonder artist, who sells one song on iTunes, is relying on that check for $0.08? I don't think so. Remember, increased value increases sales. At $0.10 per song, I guarantee iTunes membership will explode, and given how much songs are downloaded, I'd even speculate a 50% increase of buyers in just 7 days. Now go back and do the math I exampled, but change the "100" to "150" in the new proposal idea and drop "100" to "75" in the current (as that's what's happening now at iTunes due to the $1.30 song). Anyone willing to step past that model is a complete idiot. But then again, we are talking about Apple and the record labels.
LRH, maybe you should post the interview done with Lars last year, who stated he regretted taking the approach he did with Napster. Why? Because the damage done to Metallica was so overwhelming, it affects sales to this day. Metallica will never again be as popular as it was prior to the Napster incident. I, for one, am no longer a fan. And believe me, there are many more out there who agree with me. Lars opened his mouth, inserted his foot, and for what? To protect revenue? Well, here's a perfect example of what happens when a group pisses of its fans. Revenues dropped anyway.
Earn a living. Wow, where the hell to begin with this statement. Never mind. It speaks volumes all on its own to everyday people who struggle to make their living. |
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