Forum - View topicWolf's Rain (TV).
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Keonyn
 Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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I guess the way I saw it is that it was a cycle. spoiler[When the earth becomes overrun with corruption, it in a sense ends and cleanses itself and is reborn. The chance to begin anew is in a sense paradise. I guess I took the appearance of the wolves again in modern society at the end as sort of a sign of the times, as in our world now is heading on that path of corruption.]
I could be wrong, but that's how I interpreted the ending. |
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Iemander
 Posts: 443 |
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spoiler[This is actually what I've been wondering about. People call the whole thing being reset? What exactly is being repeated? Kiba and the rest simply don't know each other and seem to be well intergrated in society (which is a 180 from everything the entire series ever stood for), the moonflower just grows in the middle of town without anyone simply noticing it, and euh... the world doesn't look like it's on the brink of destruction.]
What wolves? I didn't see any wolves, did you? |
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Arkard
 Posts: 677 Location: Poland |
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spoiler[The world. What you see at the end of the series may well be taking place million of years after the Paradise didn't open, soiled by Darcia`s eye. the world started over. People appeared on Earth yet again, started a new culture but repeated their mistakes so a New Quest for Paradise will begin again. With Kiba, Tsume, Toboe and Hige in this modern age world, they will meet again and search together for Paradise to try and save mankind. But they will fail. Over and over again. This is how I see it.]
spoiler[I see it as a metaphor. The world we all saw at the end of the series was a modern age city. Even Tokyo if you will. The creators just try to say, that in the same way as before, our world is slowly sinking into destruction. Because come on, we, the mankind, are practically raping Mother Nature. It`s a matter of time before she starts to fight back.] |
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Iemander
Posts: 443 |
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spoiler[Paradise as was named was supposed to be a world of Wolves, not a place of pure goodness (As said in the illusion, perfection isn't real, it's just a dream, so it can never be paradise no matter how people would want to believe in it). The "problem" I have with your view is that I don't see any motive. I don't see the motive of why Kiba and the rest would meet up again, as I saw the ending, they all seemed perfectly happy with no problem at all. The previous motive was how Wolves couldn't fit into society, I don't see a trace of that, not even a hint in the outro.] Last edited by Iemander on Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Nani?
 Posts: 632 |
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First, thanks for the compliments everyone.
We just see them for a brief moment, how do we know they are well integrated into society. The only one who looks semi prosperous is Tsume. But he was a criminal last time also. The moonflower is a hint that the cycle is about to repeat. It seems to say that modern society is on the brink of cataclysm. If you read about oil supplies, enviromental problems, look at our culture and see how many of us are "entertained" you might come to that conclusion. The idea that this world is on the edge of destruction is not too farfetched, it is just not as visibly in decline as the last one.
How many people in the WR universe were aware of Kiba and Co as wolves? Answer, not many. Also consider that a Kami (Shinto spirit/diety) can take many forms, a person, an animal, the wind. Who says they are wolves this time (they might be). Consider the possiblity that Kiba is a kami who's purpose is tied the end of cycles/renewel, though he is not always consciously aware of that fact. Basically, the plot of the WR univerese is about to be repeated, but only the broad outline, not the particulars. For example, "Cher" may not be a biologist this time but is in a lab with Asimo (the robot the Japanese invented) and has just been given a book of "superstition" that include that the last mistake modern man will make is createing a machine mimicing a human. spoiler[Makes me think of a Cylon, oops wrong universe. ] Maybe she'll meet Hub for dinner, who she dated in college but didn't marry because of typical Japanese family pressure, in spite of thier enduring love. Or maybe spoiler[they did marry, have children and latter in the series realise their daughter is a "zombie". In fact, she looks just like that school girl lying dead, being licked by the cat in episode 27 in the past world.] This basically lets them come to the same kind of understanding they did in WR, just slightly differently. Or maybe, Kiba is spoiler[one of seven "Dragons of Earth" this time.] All the best, Nani? |
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Weazul-chan
 Posts: 625 Location: Michigan |
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it was left out of the Adult Swim airing, but, IIRC, at the begining of ep 27 (23 by the AS airing count) you hear the voice of spoiler[the owl/Darcia I (as opposed to Darcia III who we see thru the series) talking about Paradise and how it's connected to the renewal of the world. it's all pretty spiritual, makes you think... it lets you the viewer decide what Paradise really is supposed to be in the series. maybe the physical Paradise is the beginning point, when everything is pure and good... but in order for things to move there needs to be conflic and the place of Paradise is lost and we're left to find our own Paradise. you can see them finding that in the series... Kiba's Paradise was with Cheza, Hige's was with Blue, etc... Wolf's Rain is a series you sometimes have to forget the literal meanings and go with more spiritual/metaphysical meanings, especially at the end]
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littlejuliet
 Posts: 1 |
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Oke so I know most of this thread happened 4 years ago
 , but here's my two cents worth:
I think the ending fit, however it doesn't mean I have to like it! I'm definately a "disney-happily-ever-after" type, but I don't really see how else it could have ended. It reminded me of the ending of spoiler[The Dark Tower series by Stephen King (also a "reset-all" type thing)] It was also a case of one small change occuring in the "reset-ed" end that gave the lead character a fighting chance that this time maybe the end result will be different. Again his companions, however their "ends" where previously, would join him again in an atempt to meet a different end result (even if they're not all aware of that fact that it's a re-run of events). I believe that Kiba and the others have also been born again/reincarnated/recycled/whatever to relive their journey, hopefully with a different end result, maybe the eye won't fall in the water this time, thus not poisoning paradise again. I also think that the end takes place not in the future, but in a world like today, the cars, building etc all have a very here/now feeling, thus not some place in the future or past (where the story has been taking place). I also think that they will continue, like I think of the King novels, until one day they get it "just right", not knowing if they ever will in the end though. So yeah, loooved the series, almost cried in the office (watch the last 3 eps in office - don't ask), but yes I would have liked my disney-style ending (no I'm not from USA *see comment about the Americans and happy endings*), but it was a good ending, and still a little hopeful, well to me at least ^^ |
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rainbowcourage
 Posts: 1216 Location: what is commonly known as "hell week" |
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Funnily enough, the ending was poignant for me because it explained the OP. It explained why, in the OP (something we've been watching every episode), spoiler[all four pass each other in their human forms, but appear not to know each other; because they lose all their memories, or are reincarnated. It was such a beautiful, simple circle that I loved it-- something you'd been watching the whole time was explained.
The events leading up to the ending...maybe all of them dying was a bit much. I felt that Kiba and Tsume had to, but maybe one of them could have lived, gotten old, told the story, whatever, just to mix it up a little. But I do like the fact that they've all forgotten what they achieved; it's so sad and so touching. In the end, no pun intended, I was very satisfied. I also don't consider it a "reset" button ending since there is no proof that the four of them reconnect in the future, which is extremely sad in a gratifying way, since they became such good friends.] |
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Veoryn87
 Posts: 808 |
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I loved the ending because it was both sad, but hopeful at the same time. The characters learned what it was like to live for others rather than just for themselves, and they bettered themselves from it, and in the end, spoiler[Kiba still doesn't give up on paradise.]
But the thing is..... spoiler[I'm not sure about calling it a "reset ending myself. From what it looks like, the characters aren't even wolves anymore. I mean, Tsume was riding a motorcycle, Hige was holding a grocery bag, and Toboe was holding a cat. They never drove or held things a dogs mouth wouldn't be able to hold during the series (except Cheza, which I have a hard time explaining). I guess it's possible that Kiba is still a wolf, but we can only speculate from here] |
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JacobC
ANN Contributor
 Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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Yeah. That is THE biggest thing people fail to realize about the ending. Well, one out of two things, both of which hugely affect your understanding of the ending. First off, there's a lot of symbolism to it, it's not just there to make you sad. I would explain it but that takes a lot of typing. I'll just point out the two brain-benders and let people draw their own conclusions from those. First, spoiler[the wolves are unmistakably human. Maybe you could dismiss Hige carrying a grocery bag and eating at the same time, and if you REALLY stretched, you could excuse Toboe loving on a kitten. But Tsume can NOT drive a motorcycle if he's a wolf, and once that's out of the way, you realize the other two awkward actions were put there on purpose to help you draw that conclusion. Is Kiba human as well? We don't know. I kinda think he is, just for coherence, because...] Secondly, spoiler[the world reborn that we see at the end of the show is CLEARLY modern-day Japan. A famous city no less, so that the Japanese audience watching the show could make that connection much quicker than American viewers. You could say, "Oh, they just designed the future world to LOOK like ours, but it's not." However, in the special features for the DVDs, the director says that the Paradise the wolves create is modern-day *****. Yes, they blank it out. I guess they thought it was a spoiler. That's why I don't know the city's name myself One of the cast members laughs and asks if the wolves will be able to go swimming on their vacation in this place, but the director says, "It's not quite like that, I'm afraid." So the wolves are human, in our universe.] Hm. What do YOU think the creators were trying to say through that? 
Eventually, I'll come back to this thread and post a BIG explanation of the symbolism in Wolf's Rain, because it really is one of the most eerily allegorical anime fantasies I've ever seen and I loooove to talk about it. (For those of you who read crap I've posted in other in-depth kind of threads.) It's kind of like "How many metaphors for the spiritual journey/different versions of the apocalypse can we fit in one show?" Really, I don't know how they managed to squish three or so religions' beliefs about ze end of ze world into one show, add some extra fantasy, and make it coherent, but I think it's pretty shweet. |
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eldan
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I see the ending this way:
Darcia and Kiba fought against each other, the winner gets to open paradise, none of them won and they both opened paradise. Kiba representing the good in the world and Darcia representing the evil in the world and when paradise is opened the world is being reborn, it restarts and like that in the ending we got to the world of today. a world of good and evil, someone said that the flower in the ending was probably cheza (she said she'll always be near them) and I think Kiba is running in the end in his chase to open paradise again, this time with only good. basically it symbolizes that the world is chasing after a paradise of good and it will never stop until it will get there which will happen eventually. but it's not a complete restart Toboe, Hige and Tsume aren't wolves now, it's impossible because' you see them acting completely like humans and Tsume is even riding a bike. a very good ending indeed showing they pretty much opened our world at least thats what I think |
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andyos
ANN Associate Editor
Posts: 263 |
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I love the ending to Wolf's Rain, but I have another question. (Apologies if it's been answered here before.) If anyone here has got Susan Napier's book 'Anime from Akira to Howl's Moving Castle' to hand, then there's something that has always bugged me. Napier has a very strange description of the end of the series - basically it seems to be the ending of the OAV with the last four or five minutes cut out. spoiler[ That is, Napier describes the last battle and the death of the flower-maiden, then she claims that the 'final scene' is that of Kiba lying in the snow, saying 'There's no such thing as paradise.' ]
(If you have the Napier book, see p141; there's also a footnote on p314 but it doesn't clarify matters.) What I wondered if there was possibly an alternative version of the last episodes released in Japan? (I've heard that the last Evangelion TV episodes went through revisions from TV to video/DVD, but afaik the final Wolf's Rain episodes only ever appeared on video in Japan.) Did Napier somehow finish watching the show a few (crucial) minutes early? |
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BlooDrAgOn
 Posts: 156 |
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I actually liked the ending. I find it surprising that no one has mentioned the relationship between spoiler[death and paradise. I like to go for the fact that each wolf, each human, and even Darcia found paradise in death (and then reincarnation).]
However, I was unhappy with the entire series itself. Every wolf character was equally as annoying, whether it was Kiba's obsession over Cheza or...well everyone's bi*ching. Darcia made the anime for me, because as much as you may of hated him for spoiler[killing the characters off], he still was pretty badass. |
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JacobC
ANN Contributor
Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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That's the only explanation I can give you to that. There's no alternate version of that episode, it is what it is. Obviously, Napier has seen a lot of anime, so it could be that she simply forgot the details of the ending and identified a lot more with the recurrent image of the wolf giving up on life in the snow, both at the beginning and the end. That is the definitive image of Wolf's Rain in a lot of ways, but you're right in that she's missing a key element of the ending. The wolf lays down to die in the snow every time, convinced that he has to give up, but he never really does. He hears a voice, calling to him, some reason to believe the impossible, and tries again...and again...and again. The great question of the story is whether you believe that the cycle will stop someday as Cheza speculates in her last words, and the reason for Kiba's hope still remains in the final arrival of the real Paradise on earth...Or if you prefer to think of Paradise as nothing more than untainted innocence that will never last. There's also a lot of depth in the observation that the pursuit of Paradise itself was a kind of reward. Being willing to go the distance earned him the peace he receives in seeing the world reborn before he tries again. I like to think that he makes it in "our world," and that the creators are trying to say our apocalypse could be the last. After all, it's strongly implied that Kiba keeps getting closer and closer each time. He was sickeningly and tragically FEET away from dissolving the world into the real Paradise on his last attempt, so I think the "final world" we see is one that will have an end like a lot of religions prophesy. Or perhaps not, as the futility of trying to preserve the temporary Paradise is a recurring theme present but it's really up to your own beliefs...like the rest of the show. 
I'm inclined to agree and disagree with you on this one. The multiple implications of Toboe's "after death scene" with Granny and allusions to Quent finding peace in Paradise seem to imply that the wolves return to Paradise in death, but of course they have to reincarnate many years into the future on the new dying earth...as humans, the dominant, spiritual, soul-seeking "fallen species" of our world. But I honestly think Darcia was damned for his actions. Partways because of his violent death, a death caused by him trying to enter Paradise. He literally went up in aurora-flames. Gee. Wonder where they took him? Hamona's clearly in Paradise, though, as her soul escaping there without him is the whole basis for Darcia's mad quest. But Darcia? He (and all other Nobles, it is heavily implied) was a "fallen wolf," the demon archetype of the story who pines for Paradise and rails against those who cast him out, but hungers for the wrong reasons, selfish and arrogant dreams of domination. They make enough references to the existence of hell for us to posit that that's where he ended up, even if he was an understandable and fairly sympathetic villain: a villain nonetheless.
Personally, I really liked him just before he went crazy. After Jaguara's poison numbs his senses and his shock at the revelation that he is a fallen wolf drive him crazy and he starts savagely ripping apart my favorite characters...it's on. He gotta go, and in a horribly violent manner. But I guess if you didn't like the characters, it was just dandy watching them die, huh? I...was NOT in that camp. 
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andyos
ANN Associate Editor
Posts: 263 |
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[quote="JesuOtaku"]
Many thanks for the comments. I had leaned towards the 'eternal cycle' interpretation, but your post made me rewatch Cheza's last scene. As you say, her final words _seem_ to imply there might be a final ending NEXT time (i.e. at the end of the adventure that we see starting in the last seconds of the series). If so, it would put Wolf's Rain in line with another epic quest-fantasy that's already been referred to in this thread. However, I don't speak Japanese so I'm dependent on the subtitles, and it's always possible the original Japanese had a different implication. What Cheza says in the subs is: 'The world will close up for a while. So we will be apart for a while... This one [i.e. I] was able to meet you because the flowers protected you. Because you protected this one, the flowers will be able to bloom again. So when the next world opens up, when Paradise opens up, we will meet again. This one will be waiting for you. Find this one, and next time the Paradise you hoped for will...' I'd be grateful, though, if any Japanese speakers could confirm if this is a fair translation, or misleading. (The final sentence seems to be crucial.) |
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