Forum - View topicNEWS: Retailer to Stop Imports of Funimation BD/DVDs into Japan
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configspace
Posts: 3717 |
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But that doesn't make sense though. If it were only that issue of another retailer reselling the imported discs then they, presumably the JP licensors, can just request the local retailer in Japan to stop carrying them, and it would have nothing to with DVD Fantasium since people could still legally buy directly from them, or anyone else in general like amazon, other etailers, etc as Hikaru and I mentioned previously. And based on what samuelp stated above, since they're located in the US and ship those discs directly to JP buyers, it seems like they are well within their rights to do so here at least (see my post above about first sale doctrine), so they didn't actually have to comply with the request. The only way this complying with removal would make sense is if the Japanese government creates some kind of blanket ban, which would be ridiculous.. but this delisting only applies to Funimation, so there's even less legal rationale. |
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samuelp
Industry Insider
Posts: 2233 Location: San Antonio, USA |
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Exactly. But we're not really talking about legal rights here, we're talking about internal pressure. Japanese companies see DVD Fantasium selling cheap versions of their shows to their local customers, and they complain to Funimation, and funimation halts all sales to that retailer. Remember, Funimation is stuck in a very tight place, too... They're trying to get Japan to sell them Blu-ray rights to series, but Japan is wary of killing their own market's inflated prices. If FUnimation ignores a place like DVD Fantasium for too long, then it could be a real problem for Funimation. It doesn't matter if Funi sells an extra 1000 discs to Japan if they can't get the rights to the shows in the first place because of it. Heck, I'm sure Crunchyroll would get 100,000 new subscribers if they allowed Japanese IPs to view all the shows on their sight, but if they did that they'd never license a show again. |
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luffypirate
Posts: 3186 |
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LOL. I was wondering the same thiing... |
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hikaru004
Posts: 2306 |
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So basically DVD Fantasium was within their legal rights to sell those DVDs/BDs to R2 and could have just told FUNi to shove off if they didn't perceive pressure also coming from Japan to shut them down if they didn't comply. So what we have here is R2 distributors pressuring a retailer located in R1 that sells things to R2 to do business in a manner that benefits them and pressuring an R1 distributor (FUNi) to tow the party line so to speak. Hopefully for cooperating with R2 and ignoring an R1 retailer's rights, FUNi should at least give us better audio and video soon. Wasn't there an incident regarding FMA and FUNi? The retailer was selling legit R2 CDs in R1 and FUNi pressured them to stop. *searches internet* Yep, the retailer was Akadot and here's the article. |
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Sakagami Tomoyo
Posts: 940 Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia |
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But not Australia, which I'm rather bitter about. |
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animalia555
Posts: 467 |
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samuelp
Industry Insider
Posts: 2233 Location: San Antonio, USA |
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Just to point out proof of what I said:
The copyright on DVD Fantasium's webpage is: "Copyright (c) 2000-2010 by The Fantasium Projects Corp. All rights reserved." the fact that it's in english (the only thing on the page) and explicitly states "Corporation" implies the company is incorporated in the US. A Japanese company would use one of the Japanese business terms like kabushikigaisha (K.K.), etc... and here's their company info off their website: 名称:The Fantasium Projects Corp. 設立:1990年 所在地:1133 Broadway, Suite 1004, New York, NY 10010, USA I don't know about you, but the concept of a US retailer being forced to stop selling a product they have every right to (since they're shipped out of the US... in fact they're all shipped using USPS, EMS, or Fedex and I believe shipping is "free" (the price is included in the base price essentially.)) is a bit irking to me. I'm afraid that ironically this will be great publicity for the website (it's all over 2ch), and they might end up making up the loss of funi blu-ray sales on sales of other anime/hollywood movies. |
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Mr. sickVisionz
Posts: 2173 |
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I'm all for this if the end result is that US buyers don't have to wait like 2 years to get a show in the US. I've always heard that the fear of reverse importation was a major reason for huge delays in anime coming over. If they can at least stop major retailers from doing it, that should put some big wigs at ease.
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hikaru004
Posts: 2306 |
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We're in the same blu-ray region. The only thing that's going to stop reverse importation fears is a severely crippled BD or a BD released with the same price as R2 imo. Obviously, video and audio quality wasn't that important to DVD Fantasium's clientele. |
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OLady
Posts: 163 Location: Texas |
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I obviously haven't been paying attention for a good long while, immersed as I have been in manga. But I have wondered why some things are released here and others are not. I also wish to thank configspace for one's concise and cogent explanation of the law. Thanks to you all for an informative discussion of what seems to be a rather confusing and thorny issue.
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teh*darkness
Posts: 901 |
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Okay, please someone tell me where you all are getting this information that a Japanese publisher twisted Funimation's arm into forcing DVD Fantasium to stop selling Funimation's releases to Japan? Nowhere in the article is this said, and to state it, then start basing arguments off of it, is pure fallacy. While it's a possibility, to act as if it's fact and argue based on that supposed "fact", is incorrect. Now as that is the case, my earlier argument is also only a theory, but based on the use of the phrase "sold at retail overseas", it sounds like my guess was the most likely to be close to the actual circumstances. So please, quit with all the damn Funi hate. It's old, and has been for a while. |
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samuelp
Industry Insider
Posts: 2233 Location: San Antonio, USA |
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There's a very simple and convincing reason, if you think about it logically. Only Funimation products are affected. Funimation licenses from a very large number of different Japanese companies. So there are two different possibilities: 1. A great number of different, competing Japanese companies all came to DVD Fantasium and told them to stop reverse importing JUST the shows they had licensed to funimation (but media blasters and section 23 and nozomi products are okay). 2. One or two companies pressured funi to stop selling any of their products to DVD Fantasium. Clearly option number 2 is far far more likely. Secondly, DVD Fantasium has no reason to listen to Japanese companies as it is a US company located in the US... So considering it is ONLY funimation products that are affected it's almost for sure that it was Funimation that delivered the message. There's no Funi-hate as you say in what I'm saying. I'm quite sure they had little choice in the matter. |
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Mohawk52
Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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All this would be completely unnecessary if the Japanese slapped a hefty import tax on top. But still just how much importation was there to warrent such a reaction? If there is that much, in the land that is awash with it, and the source of all Japanese animation round the world, then something is drastically wrong with their way of selling in their own market that they need to sort out. Their indigenous customers must now be too aware of the bad deal they get compared to overseas fans, and are obviously not willing to tolerate it anymore. The genie is out of the bottle, and they can try to force it back, but it's too late to be successful. Again it is their relucance to move with the times that is stifling their own industry.
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la_contessa
Posts: 200 Location: Pennsylvania |
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The first sale doctrine only comes into play as a defense to copyright infringement ("Hey, you don't have the right to distribute that DVD on half.com!" "No, I own this copy, so the first sale has already happened and now I can sell my copy as I see fit."). It protects retailers like DVD Fantasium from copyright infringement suits, since they have already purchased the copies from someone else (there was some mention earlier in the thread that DVD Fantasium may have been selling wholesale to Japan-based retailers as well, but is there evidence of that? At any rate, it doesn't matter, because wholesalers would be equally protected from infringement suits). Unless there is some deception going on, the DVD Fantasium announcement specifically mentions licensing agreements, so we're likely outside the realm of copyright law and into contract law, which is an entirely different situation.
(what follows is pure conjecture based on the assumption that a reasonable, contract-based explanation probably exists--I have no clue what the licensing and distribution agreements actually say, I am only making educated guesses) Funimation has NA distribution rights as per its contracts with the Japanese companies. I would bet those contracts prohibit Funimation from distributing their releases outside NA (they may have separate agreements for other regions, but here we're talking specifically the agreement that gives NA distribution rights). I would be surprised if that agreement did not also charge Funimation with monitoring the exportation from NA to Japan of its R1 releases, or at least prohibit tacitly allowing the importation into Japan of gray markey goods (i.e. selling to a wholesaler or retailer that Funimation knows to be in the business of importing R1 releases into R2). Further, Funimation may (and probably should, because it wants to maintain goodwill with the Japanese companies) request that its distributors, wholesalers, and retailers sign similar agreements. For example, Funimation may pass on its prohibition against distributing outside of NA to its retailers: "I will not sell you copies of my NA releases unless you promise to only sell them in NA." Such a clause may in fact be required by the original licensing agreement. If the distribution agreement does not have a prohibition on passively allowing the copies to be exported to Japan, only on direct sales to Japan, DVD Fantasium might be able to get away with buying the DVDs from another retailer, but think about the mark-up there. DVD Fantasium would have to raise its prices to maintain the same profit margin, etc. I'm only qualified to talk about the law, though, not the economics aspect. As for why it is only Funimation--I have no clue. Maybe they were the first company to get concerned, maybe one of their Japanese contacts came to them first, who knows? Well, Funimation would know, but they aren't really obligated to tell us. |
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hikaru004
Posts: 2306 |
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But exports should be covered by first-sale as they were purchased in this country. Even with a markup, it still will be less than Japanese prices. Imports are not covered. |
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