Forum - View topicNEWS: Manga Aggregator Site Hosts Removed Scans Again
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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Yeah, that's the kind of nonsense I never understand. Especially since VIZ, Tokyopop, Vertical, Dark Horse and co. are all paying artists everytime you buy a book. Here's some stuff I pointed out from the recent ladywhouploadedanimeandwenttoprison thread regarding manga royalties- http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2010/08/surviving-in-the-manga-industry/ Ed Chavez of Vertical had this to offer "So while the comics do not need to be printed, there are still other costs that come into play (such as file fees, file conversion costs…) if there already is a print version. When there isn’t a print version there biggest costs –licensing, royalties, translation, file fees, lettering, editing, distribution and marketing — are still there. Printing is usually only 10% of a book’s costs; the rest of the fees make up more than 50%. (And with digital royalties alone tend to go up 5 to 10%)." http://www.japanator.com/talking-to-the-publishers-about-the-anti-piracy-coalition-15209.phtml Considering Ed points out here that manga licensing contracts are very beneficial towards creators- "I want to answer Sanori's question here cause I see this type of comment pop up here and there. Creators get up to 20% of the sale of each book and they often get advances in the form of license fees that cost publishers thousands of dollars per volume licensed. Publishers might get at most 10% of a books cover price to start. Now if a book becomes a hit (say more than 50,000 copies) then publishers start to see that percentage go up to 20% (as reprints begin to negate many of the overhead costs that are needed in manga licensing and production). So by not buying manga readers are definitely impacting the creators as much or more than the publishers." So yeah, basically, when you buy a licensed manga, about 20% of the sale goes to the manga creator. Out of that 10 bucks you pay for your manga, 2 bucks goes to the creator. You're also paying the publishers [japanese and domestic], translators, editors, distributors, printers, retailers and employees of those retail stores. You do a lot of good stuff when you consumer your manga legally. *hands lunitoonz 50 points for posting the Timm Batman Rogue's gallery art* |
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Sunday Silence
 Posts: 2047 |
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You could probably bribe some inexperenced otakus with some figurines or a few boxes of Pocky for a days work. Oh wait, thats what got the Mortgage Industry to get into trouble. Nevermind.
And they wonder why pirates are (CENSORED) them all the way to the bank? |
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yblees
 Posts: 165 Location: New Zealand |
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Mangafox's owner is based in China...?! *facepalm* Good luck anybody trying to sue them 
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Granamonkey
Posts: 10 |
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This is pure speculation, but China and Japan have really been going at it over the Senkaku/Diaoyu islands (or you can just go with Pinnacle...) lately, and China has held protests against Japan and has cut off mineral supply to Japan as well. I'm sure the company that owns Mangafox is thinking that the Chinese Gov. doesn't care what a coalition of mainly Japanese companies want or ask right now.
You can keep up on the whole ordeal if you wish on a number of sites, I use mdn.mainichi.jp . For those of you that don't know, A little over a month ago a Chinese fishing boat was near the Senkaku Islands. Japan is recognized to own the waters around the Senkaku Islands, though China has continually challenged this claim, but the fishing boat wrecked into the Japanese Life Guard/Navy boat. Both governments started pointing fingers and the debate over who owns the waters there heated up again, and now both countries are rather upset at one another. I'd go into the details, but I won't bore you all here unless someone's interested in hearing more hahaha. Long story short: Chinese gov. won't care what Mangafox does because right now they're pissed at Japan. |
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Greed1914
 Posts: 4470 |
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Gotta love the irony. "Don't steal our stuff and use it on your site, even though that's what we do constantly to other people." If any legal action does come of this, I hope that their legal disclaimer gets used against them. They flat out said that copyright law applies to them, so it's only fair that the rights holders get to use it against them.
Well done. Love that episode, too.
No kidding. Any Chinese anime fan that I've spoken to at my anime club has said that there is basically no concept of copyright infringement there. Legal action across borders is hard enough without dealing with that sort of problem. |
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Sunday Silence
Posts: 2047 |
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The problem is, if Mangafox is deviously smart, they could, in retrospect, trademark/copyright the stuff their pirating. It has happened. |
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agila61
 Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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That's part of the speculation that they are making hay while the sun shines: that they realize that a case is going to be brought, they can't afford to fight it, and if they fight it they are likely to lose, so they are going to generate the revenue they can now and if they have to start blocking US IP addresses down the track, well, cross that bridge when they come to it.
This is something that Erica Friedman discusses and that OpenManga has been working on for over a year, so it's probably easier said than done. For manga that are licensed for print publication, a growing amount of online viewable manga is already being done, but as already mentioned, its not as cheap to do it when you pay your workers as when you depend on site volunteers uploading work that's been ripped off. The kind of approach above is most likely for manga that are presently not able to be licensed in the US because of a too small market ... but then that means that the member-contributed subtitles will be for titles that have a small market, so its not automatic that individual mangaka in Japan will decide that its worth their while.
And even if China recognized the copyright, it doesn't make much difference, since they are not making money from the Chinese market. Last edited by agila61 on Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Guardsman Bass
 Posts: 158 |
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You act as if this has even a remote chance of succeeding. US companies have been bitching for years about Chinese infringement on intellectual property, and that's with companies that totally dwarf anything in the manga anti-piracy coalition. Moreover, how do you plan to collect? Seize their assets in the US, assuming they even have any? The truth is that Manga Fox is next to impossible to touch (unless you convince the Chinese government to crack down, and I suspect IP protection of manga is fairly low down on their priorities), and it was only a matter of time before they put the series they took down originally back up. |
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Sunday Silence
Posts: 2047 |
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If the IP holders play their cards right, they could use the Senkaku/Daiyo/Pinnacle Islands furor recently to their own advantage, granted their willing to lie and play extremely dirty. I leave it up to them to figure it out. |
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bayoab
Posts: 831 |
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agila61
Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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Most of their revenue originates in the US, most of their revenue originates due to views by people with US IP addresses, take the views and cash flow from the US out of the picture, and there's a lot less revenue available to pay a CDN and leave anything left over for the enterprise. They are a focus precisely because they were the biggest of these sites by a company domiciled in China ~ OneManga was easier, because it was domiciled in the US, but if they can take out or cripple MangaFox, most of the other thirty sites on their list seem likely to fold without a serious fight. |
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GeekyBlackGirl
 Posts: 52 |
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With paper money. |
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kensh1ro
Posts: 16 |
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Slightly Off-topic: What does that piracy coalition have against manga?! ... Wait. On-topic (should that be hyphenated?): Well, since I'm weaning myself off of pirated copies of licensed material (YouTube's not helping the anime aspect, though), this is good news for most of me, bad news for the part of me that irrationally refuses to buy anything online, yet has no booksellers in what he considers a "reasonable distance." In short, I wish there was some practical way that manga licensers could do what their anime counterparts are doing (Hulu, YouTube, their own sites). Maybe a static add between chapters, but that's for people who like to read an entire volume in one go (me). Or, that could work for chapter-by-chapter guys, too. But, I'm sure they've already considered that... |
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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The majority of manga pubs in the US are small business with small staffs- even giant VIZ has only around 100 employees and is categorized as a small business. Smaller pubs like Vertical have only about 10 or so staff members handling everything. Go Comi had just about 5 staff members. And in Japan, many of the publishers outside the big 3 [Kodansha, Shuiesha, Shogakukan] are also small companies. The vast majority of artists in Japan and in the US live check to check as freelancers, with only a small minority getting into bigger money with TV/Movie deals, and even then they're by no means living oppulently in many cases. They don't have the kind of money it takes to shut MangaFox down individually, which is why they formed the coalition, and even then it will take a lot of work. You seem pretty ignorant of the daily lives of artists and the realities of publishing [a constant reliance on continued sales, small staffs, continually paying fees and licenses etc.] if all you can reply is "with paper money". If publishers have paper money, it's mostly being used to pay artists, licensors, employees, printeres, distributors and possibly investors if it's a recent startup. Many comic publishers are literally a guy [or a lady] and a few employees [1 or 2 permanent/fulltime if they're lucky, with an assortment of freelancers] running out of the publishers house or a small office. The there's the self publishers out there just trying to make costs back on printing or webhosting for their comics. That's why it sucks so much that people cluelessly rip off artists and publishers such much. They are by no means mega corporations. I'm going to assume you're not saying this stuff to be spiteful, and honestly don't know how small an industry comics/manga are in North America. Or how much work is involved in making them . I'd suggest reading through http://www.adistantsoil.com Colleen Doran's blog to get a better sense what the business is like, warts and all, good and bad. Read other comic professionals feelings about these issues, and you might get a bit more insight into things, and why Yana Toboso animenewsnetwork.com/news/2010-08-16/black-butler-author-decries-illegal-videos-downloads was so pissed at fans for bootlegging her work recently. Or why manga pubs dislike mangafox http://www.comicsalliance.com/2010/08/20/the-manga-industry-speaks-taking-stock-in-tough-times/ Educate yourself. I'm sure like most fans you mean well, love your manga and your fave cartoonists, and don't mean them any ill will. Be a better fan :) Support your fave artists ^_^! Support the hardworking publishers! Support legit print and digital! Understand why MangaFox is scum, let your friends know, and make the world a better place :) Most fans aren't bad fans [though some seem to really try their darndest 0_O], they just don't know about all this stuff, and that ignorance can be pretty dangerous when they get their hands on something like Mangafox. Don't be taken advantage of by pirates who are ripping off your fave artists. They're abusing naive fans as much as they are the artists. Last edited by Paploo on Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:06 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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http://www.shonensunday.com/top.shtml That's why VIZ is doing with their Sigikii and Shonen Sunday sites http://sigikki.com/ If you want to see more offerings like it, keep visiting their sites and read the chapters. Buy the titles serialized on it too if possible. Show them there's a demand and help them make a profit. http://www.yenpress.com/yenplus/ Yen Press has the Yen Plus subscription too. Every pub has moved into digital in some way, but fans need to support it, and reject bootlegged sites, if it's going to grow. PS-- This is to everyone on the thread- being against piracy does not mean being against digital. I've been making webcomics for a decade- digital can be great if the artist is a part of it and open to it. When they're taken out of it though, and when their rights are abused, it's a big problem (this more then anythignelse is why many artists are skeptical of digital- and frankly, countless threads of people whinging on why they need scanlations does not make you feel like making webcomics). And being for digital isn't about defending piracy. If you want digital, support the real thing, not the poser looking to get rich quick or an internet ego stroke for something taht isn't even theirs. Don't make those mistakes. These are assumptions so many fans make in these sorts of threads. Last edited by Paploo on Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:26 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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