Forum - View topicNEWS: Newsweek on Youtube and Haruhi Suzumiya
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
Author | Message | |||
---|---|---|---|---|
mufurc
Posts: 612 |
|
|||
No real evidence, but it's kind of logical, and I don't believe that a show's current popularity has no influence on the US companies' decisions. Show starts airing -> is fansubbed -> becomes insanely popular. Which company wouldn't want to make money out of that popularity? I may personally think that Honey & Clover is much more worthwhile than say, Naruto, but if I had to choose which one to license and distribute then I'd definitely choose Naruto.
In the US. Not everywhere else. (Not going into the rest, I'm really tired of repeating the same arguments over and over.) |
||||
Steventheeunuch
|
|
|||
I guess it could make sense, but for something that'd have a wide audience appeal (or moreso something aimed at younger audiences, Naruto, for example) you'd be relying mostly on a market that doesn't even know what the hell torrents are, or even that theres a Japanese version of Naruto to begin with. Something like Gits:sac would also be a shoe-in that doesn't require fansub exposure because while there are creative differences between it and the movie, there's going to be a large carryover from the people who've watched the GitS movie. So something like Azumanga or what not (I keep saying this, sorry) I can definantly see being licensed on online buzz, but for larger shows, I can see licensing desicions being made on something that is a lot more stable than the Internet. |
||||
wao
Posts: 224 |
|
|||
For anyone who hasn't seen the picture of the print version this is probably it...
Also from the looks of it, the Japanese have already started moving to s****6 which lets you put up any length (I've seen a 25 minute video!), has better quality, AND lets you download. (It's easy to report copyright infringement - but so far I haven't seen much taken down... yet.) But once that gets well known, it'll probably end up going the same way as Youtube. It's less "easy" than Youtube though, I think it was intended less for viral videos and generally fun stuff, but more for higher quality and downloadability... probably aimed at people who want to put their personal film shorts on or something. |
||||
mufurc
Posts: 612 |
|
|||
True, but that's where word of mouth comes into the picture. My country has a TV channel devoted mostly to anime (it's only a few hours every day, it's started not too long ago), and people's requests for new anime include both "X & Y that I've seen fansubbed and thought they were great" and "X & Y - I haven't seen them or know what they're about, but people keep talking about them so I'm curious." With anime getting more popular and appearing in not directly related places (rpg/sci-fi/cartoon forums, classrooms, etc.) people who are not anime fans or who don't even know what "anime" is, also get interested for a variety of reasons. I'm not saying of course that this covers a whole lot of people, but add heavy advertising to the mix (something our anime channel can't afford yet but US companies & anime/cartoon channels can), and even casual watchers are bound to get interested. Besides, it's almost always the more mainstream shows that get insanely popular in the online community. There are exceptions, of course, but those are exceptions and not the rule. Also, I'm not saying that companies decide what to license based purely on its online popularity. Of course there must be more to that, but I believe that existing popularity is an important factor in their decisions. It may not have been so years ago when the online community was significantly smaller and less well-informed and had more restricted access to anime, but by today it's grown too big to ignore (at least I don't think it's wise to ignore it). |
||||
bayoab
Posts: 831 |
|
|||
It's likely the company is just saying "We own everything under this search result, remove it." The only thing that remained after Zegapain got cleared out is stuff for the game. They appear to have no problems with trailers and some promotion videos. AMVs being cleared out is kinda "bad" but if you really want people to see your video, you upload it to AMV.org, not youtube. |
||||
Kouji
Posts: 978 |
|
|||
I just had to rant about this but while I normally feel sympathy for the companies involved in all this legal mess, I feel no such sympathy for Japan because they really had it coming to them. I mean, what kind of retarded company charges $50 for a DVD that has only two episodes of a CARTOON with little to no extra features in a country where anime is as big as Disney and expects customers to be happy about it? Then, the Japanese turn around and allow American companies to sell anime DVDs at a much cheaper price in a country where anime is a niche market and they pitch a little fit everytime someone from Japan imports the R1 DVDs just because they're at a price a normal person can actually afford to buy. And in some cases, the quality of R1 anime DVDs has had to suffer because of the over-priced R2 DVDs in order to prevent the Japanese from importing the R1 DVDs (for example, removing next episode previews on some R1 anime DVDs). This isn't to say that I approve of the Japanese watching anime illegaly but Japan really had it to coming to them and the Japanese anime companies' karma just came back and bit them in the ass and they deserve every bit of it.
|
||||
Zeiram
Posts: 317 |
|
|||
Is a person allowed to take a liscensed imported novel and make a new work of art by rearranging the cut out exerpts of the story in today's society? That is why and it is also why I despise the DMCA. we are allowed to parody a movie, but we are not allowed to circumvent protection or download a copy of it because it is illegal to do so under DMCA. we are not allowed to express artistic expression which can only act as further free advertising for said used products. We have the right to make new art from old art. |
||||
writerpatrick
Posts: 672 Location: Canada |
|
|||
I'm a little surprised that YouTube hasn't either been shut down already or become a pay service. Those people at YouTube could make a fortune if they charged even a five dollar monthly fee. I would be really surprised if they are still around next year, or at least operating for free.
There are a couple sites like YouTube, but all of them need to monitor their content. If they did work on a fee system it would be easier for them to shut down posters who put up illegal material. The Japanese producers have been getting greedy lately and trying to make a lot off of liscencing rights, which do get hurt if someone can get the material for free from the Internet. But lately it's gone from just fansubbing to outright DVD rips being posted. All the production studios should be going after Internet distribution but they seem to treat it as something they can't do anything about, when in fact they just aren't technically savvy enough to do anything. It's like weed control; it's not possible to get all of it, but if you don't keep it under control the weeds will take over. We'll have to see if Youtube as well as all the Bittorrent sites such as ">This is a Known Bootleg Site are still around next year. |
||||
Tempest
I Run this place.
ANN Publisher Posts: 10429 Location: Do not message me for support. |
|
|||
You forget about the music. ALthough you're re-arranging the video, AMV's are wholesale re-using the music. There's no parody in that portion. I love AMV's, and I consider them harmless and hope that rights holders would allow them to continue unabated. But I respect that the musicians and music rights holders have every right to stop people from reproducing their art in that way.
We do? I never saw that in the constitution... I think what you want to say is "I believe we should have the right to make new art from old art." But I could be wrong... -t |
||||
PantsGoblin
Subscriber
Encyclopedia Editor Posts: 2969 Location: L.A. |
|
|||
Hmm, looking through this thread, and then looking at the thread about Bandai's "stop fansubbing" announcement thread...
Why is it that in this thread, people seem to be against the Japanese producers protecting their copyrights, but in the other thread, everybody's all like "Go Bandai!". Haven't heard a single person say "Go Fuji TV!"... doesn't make sense to me. |
||||
Tempest
I Run this place.
ANN Publisher Posts: 10429 Location: Do not message me for support. |
|
|||
Although I readilly agree that this is one of the biggest pro-fansub arguements, there are 2 points that should still be understood to contradict it. 1) The same English fansubs that foreign fans download, are the same ones that are believed to be sometimes harming the North American & Japanese industries. Should 1 party be allowed to benefit (illegally) at the expense of another ? 2) Anyone who can read the subtitles in fansubs can read the english subs in an R1 DVD. Region free players and R1 imports are easy to get in most countries, although it would cost a bit more than in the USA, but no more than what a Japanese person pays for it. (Don't forget: Watching a fansub to avoid spending money is no different than priacy/bootlegging/ip theft/etc...) Paraphrasing Chris Beveridge, Entertainment Media (ie: anime) is a luxury, not a right. Just because you can't buy it (or have it bought for you in ad-sponsored form), doesn't mean you have a right to get it for free. Personally, I agree that the whole fansub arguement is too R1 focussed and that foreign fans should be allowed to view anime in some manner if it isn't available to them commercially. I just wanted to point out that the "foreign" arguement for fansubs isn't anywhere being water-tight, regardless of how often you repeat it. -t |
||||
Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
|
|||
Uh... Ghibli movies are "as big as Disney" in Japan but it's not like all anime is as popular as that. They charge more because that's how the economy works there, but most anime series aren't as "big as Disney", minus Miyazaki stuff and maybe some of the more ubiquitous Shonen Jump stuff. As for the "we have the right to make new art out of old art", you're right, we do, but you have to pay licensing fees for the music and the images. That's how it works. Check out the film Moulin Rouge for a great example of a pastiche, which is basically a collection of "old" art turned into a work of "new" art... but Baz Luhrman still paid licensing rights to use all those recognizable songs. Your "right" to use someone else's copyrighted property ends when you start demanding it for free. While I think AMV's are harmless, like tempest said, I really don't think anyone has a leg to stand on if the band says they don't want people using their songs that way. I mean, a song is a creative expression, it has a specific meaning and many bands don't want their expression muddled or tainted or used in a way they didn't approve. It'd be like if I took your blog posts and read them aloud over images you didn't understand or appreciate; those are your words, it's your expression, what gives me the "right" to use it however I want? Is it because I don't know you? Because I don't think you have any right to protect your expression or your property once you've floated it out there into public? I don't really get why everyone seems to think they're entitled to free entertainment and they're entitled to do whatever they like all the time with whatever video or audio comes their way. It isn't YOUR music, it isn't YOUR TV show. Liking a cartoon or a song no more entitles you to rearranging that show or that song or distributing either of them for free any more than liking Porsches entitles you to a free Porsche. |
||||
mufurc
Posts: 612 |
|
|||
*sigh* Here we go again. FYI, I'm not saying that fansubs are legal or anything. They're not, piracy, blah blah. Still, they're needed and without them anime fandom/market would never develop/have developed past a rudimentary form in many countries, mine included.
1) To turn the question around: should one party be depraved of something just because it's available for another? I agree that anime is a luxury not a right, but sadly(?) few people are above enjoying a luxury service if it's provided for free, even if it's theoretically illegal. If someone started handing out Porsches in the town for free, without any legal consequences who wouldn't want one, even if they're stolen from the factory? (Okay, this may not be the best analogy since a car is a car, after all.) Since only a few anime are legally available in my country, people are not hurting local companies or even Japanese ones (since if we didn't have fansubs we wouldn't buy more DVDs, we'd just stop watching anime) by watching fansubs, and while I understand that the same fansubs may be hurting US anime industry, frankly, I'm not losing any sleep over that. It's not very nice of me, I know, but to balance it, I do buy my share of R1 DVDs (even though I live in a R2 area) whenever I can afford them which is not often. This leads us to point two... 2) There are two problems with importing R1 DVDs. One is the price - R1 DVDs may be cheap for Americans but unfortunately not all currencies are the same. Not everyone in my country can afford importing R1 stuff (unless anime becomes their only hobby which is a bit absurd), and it's small consolation that we can afford them more than Japanese DVDs. The other problem is previewing. In many countries people have no legal opportunities for previewing anime, save for those few series that may happen to be airing on some TV channel somewhere. My country is a bit better off in this aspect because of the anime channel (but even that airs only four or so "big name" shows and more B and C category stuff). I hope no-one expects anyone to shell out considerable amounts of money for something they've only heard about or have seen a one-minute trailer for. Again: I'm not defending fansubs, at least not from a legal standpoint. I'm just pro-fansub. I have my own ethics when it comes to fansubs, and that's enough for me. |
||||
hikaru004
Posts: 2306 |
|
|||
Since you asked... Go Fuji TV!!!!! It doesn't matter if you're pro-fansub or not. Reality is reality and they could be loosing income because of YouTube. There was already a report published that stated the anime DVD sales are not enough to make a profit for most titles. Report was on the Anime News Service.
Fuji TV has every right to take them out since Japan and the US are both parties to the Berne Convention. This is probably going to be another Napster. Last edited by hikaru004 on Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:46 pm; edited 3 times in total |
||||
momomochi
Posts: 16 |
|
|||
I can understand where companies are loosing money because people are watching the stuff on youtube instead of turning on the tv or buying the dvd, but for American consumers (including myself) Youtube has become a haven to watch an anime first hand before spending 30 or more dollars for something that will only be a disappointment. This also includes for Japanese dramas that are not distributed with english subtittles on the DVDs (unless they are fansubbed).
Speaking of fansubs, they are technically illegal, but yet in a way not. I feel that if it's not licensed in America it should be allowed to be fansubbed. |
||||
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
||
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group