Forum - View topicGhost Stories and the legacy of Steven Foster.
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mdo7
 Posts: 6280 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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Transformers was both a Japanese and a American properties. But too bad the Japanese dub of Beast Wars first episode has been taken down on Youtube (it was the only one that backed up the Japanese doing gag dub), so it's going to be hard to show you the gag dub from Japan since that has been removed. You might like the theme song, but I didn't like Beast Wars: Transformer maybe a cartoon, but it was a bit darker if you watch it, the Japanese dub turned it into a complete goofball thanks to the dub. |
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Hitokiri Kenshin
Posts: 291 |
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It also turned the female Airazor into a dude. No clue why. Maybe they thought boys over there wouldn't want to buy a female figure. Though guessing that changed the dynamic of her and Tigatron's relationship.
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Touma
 Posts: 2651 Location: Colorado, USA |
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You mean the Japanese licensor? They got paid. Why would they complain?
But not all of the paying fans complained. Many of us cheered, and asked for more. And the money that was paid probably spoke much louder than our voices. One other thing that I think is worth mentioning about Ghost Stories. I never saw anything to indicate that there was ever a chance of a faithful dub being made. It seems to me that the choice was always between no release at all or the gag dub, which does also have the original Japanese audio and faithful subtitles. Last edited by Touma on Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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SquadmemberRitsu
 Posts: 1391 |
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@gloverrandal
I don't know why you're acting as if Bamboo Blade is some forgotten obscure classic that no one who watches anime knows about unless they were among a select few who were around when it came out. Especially when I, the person you're directly adressing saying stuff like 'I'm one of the only people in the world who cares about Bamboo Blade', knows well and truly of the show's existence and also owns the god damn show on DVD. I see the cover of Bamboo Blade and I think 'These girls are kind of cute. This looks like it could be a bit of lighthearted fun'. I'm fully aware that a good amount of anime fans in the west would think 'moeshit' or something along those lines but there is a healthy niche audience who will see something like Bamboo Blade on a store shelf and react the same way. A gag dub for Bamboo Blade just wouldn't make sense. If I look at the front cover of Ghost Stories without knowledge of the gag dub (Hypothetical because I literally did not know of the show's existence until JesuOtaku talked about the gag dub in her HOTD Review) I see the elementary school aged cast, the artstyle that screams 'Generic early 2000s anime', the title 'Ghost Stories' and I'd barely give it a passing glance before deciding it isn't worth my time. The number of people who would willingly pick up a copy of the show without any knowledge of the dub would be very low. Remember, not everyone thinks the same way as you. Oh, and to address what someone said earlier in the comment thread I have to say even though I'm a huge fan of the Precure franchise I personally would pay good money to see a profesionally made gag dub like what Ghost Stories got. Actually scratch that. I'd love to see a company give Precure a gag dub BECAUSE I love the show. |
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Guile
Posts: 595 |
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I've never seen this English Ghost Stories dub... from what I've read though I think it might be for the best?
As a PreCure fan myself, I would hate that immensely. But I've accepted that at this point PreCure is only going to come out in America either as a horrendous 4Kids-style dub or possibly as a gag dub. Shoujo anime just doesn't sell in America, and chances are even a 4Kids dub would fail because girls simply don't watch cartoons in America. So that just leaves gag dub territory to hope to try to turn it into some kind of "cute girls with foul mouths and making pop culture jokes" show to hook the "stoner" audience. What a waste for such a massive and wonderful franchise in the west. You mentioned Sailor Moon being memorable, but it's only memorable because of nostalgia in America and people refusing to let it die. Japan moved on from it and Pretty Cure has eclipsed it in Japan, but it wont ever make a dent in America. It seems like a lot of shows are like that. You get one show and everything else doesn't come over. Yu-Gi-Oh is popular, so Duel Masters, Battle Spirits, Vanguard, and all the other card game anime either fail to get put on TV or don't come over at all. Sailor Moon was popular, and all the shoujo anime since then has ended in failure. Super Sentai became Power Rangers, and that's all that exists anymore and no more attempts at adapting Kamen Rider have happened, nor Garo, Space Sherrif, or anything else. It's some kind of monopoly epidemic in pop culture. |
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EricJ2
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Nor--for some of us judging from our own experience with a certain alien squadron--would we want it to be the ONLY English-audio option available to curious fans who didn't like subtitles, just because the company owner was a little too dictatorial in what did and didn't "deserve" to be treated well on disk.
I was only using that as an example of a series that Japanese marketers would be happy--about as much as they ever are, ie., to see the marketing extended--about seeing exported to the west, but NOT if they discovered they were the butt of the joke. I suspect future deals with the company would go south rather quickly. They don't care how much you like the licensed show, just so long as you're liking it on their terms, and the terms in this isolated case would be positive marketing. I could say, "Remember, tomorrow it could be your show...", but I have the feeling Ritsu would take even that as some sort of dream compliment-- Since he seems to be under some sort of happy, goofy fan-celebratory MST3K fantasy that gag dubs are done out of "love" for the original show. That's NOT the cult-love vibe I was getting from Foster, nosir, that I wasn't. And to join him in happy emotionally-uninvested counter-culture anarchy and say "Who cares, they all deserve it!" is to basically join in the same crime. Last edited by EricJ2 on Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:32 am; edited 1 time in total |
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leafy sea dragon
 Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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I forget--have I mentioned the various Abridged Series in this topic? Because I'm pretty sure that for stuff like None Piece or Abridged on Titan, they get a lot of fans of the source material. These are fans who are poking fun at their own work for other fans.
Their version of South Park is like that, though it is already a surreal comedy to begin with, so not much is lost. Their dub of The Simpsons plays very fast and loose, though it's borne out of necessity due to the huge amount of references to American culture that would be lost on most Japanese viewers. I don't really know of a case of a non-comedic series, however, as there isn't a lot of western television that gets dubbed to Japanese TV--they produce enough of their own stuff. |
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PurpleWarrior13
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The Ghost Stories dub still makes the material work as a series. It's not like everything the characters say is a joke. They actually keep some of the plot intact while making it entertaining and yes, poking fun at the source material (nothing wrong with that when the source material was pretty bland and forgettable in the first place). I assure you we would not be talking about Ghost Stories nearly as much were it not for it's infamous dub. That's all people ever seem to talk about in relation to the show! I have never once seen a discussion about the series itself, and I'm pretty sure it would have long fallen into obscurity far worse than it already has if it had a "straight" dub. I'm not saying every series needs a dub like that. Very few series need that. But when the source material is that forgettable and so few few care about it, then I see no problem in it. For the people that do care about the series itself, there is the Japanese audio with subs.
Also, according to Monica Rial, the Japanese approved of the idea to give it a gag dub since the show tanked hard in Japan and they needed US sales to make their money back and let ADV do whatever it took for it to make money. It's not like Shin Chan, which was pretty much a total rewrite and the DVDs were dub-only. The series is also really popular in Japan. FUNimation also changed the order of the episodes and edited visuals. They were basically making a brand new show from the source material. The end result? Funny, but really annoying. Then again, all the Shin Chan characters were pretty obnoxious in the first place. There's a reason Kath Soucie and Grey DeLisle both openly hated working on the 90s dub of the show. I wouldn't even consider Sgt. Frog's dub to be a "gag" dub. Does it take liberties? Sure it does, many of them (usually just added one-liners). However, it keeps the show's premise and story perfectly intact, and the changes it makes to some episodes' tone isn't any more than other liberally written dubs. The writers did what it took to keep the show legitimately funny (the show IS a comedy after all), and it's still highly enjoyable, much more so than a literal translated dub would've been. There were also no changes to the episode order or the footage itself, and the DVDs have the Japanese audio with English subs. While I'm not sure I'd call it's dub a "straight" dub, I'm not sure it's extreme enough to be a "gag" dub, and it's far closer to it's source material than Ghost Stories and Shin Chan's dubs. I've never seen Duel Masters, but if it's dub pokes fun at the anime card game genre, I just might check it out.  Heck, Yu-Gi-Oh!'s dub is so unbelievably campy and cheesy (almost on purpose), it could almost be considered a gag dub in it's own right.
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Guile
Posts: 595 |
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That probably has more to do with being an internet nerd culture than anything else. I can't stand Abridged series myself, I find them unfunny and terrible, filled with nothing but internet memes or trying to start new internet memes. I treat those things less anime related and more internet meme related, feeding into internet nerd culture like YouTube personalities like GameGrumps or Annoying Orange. And the less often I can discuss Dragonball or Yu-Gi-Oh with a forum without having to hear someone chime in with a joke or line from the Abridged series and think they're being so witty and funny, I only consider that a plus. That's why I tend to favor forums with an older age demographic, as those types of things appeal mainly to the younger crowd. I certainly don't see why the people behind these creations are considered important enough to be considered guests at American anime conventions. That just baffles my mind, really. Them being treated the same as people who worked on the actual show? Amazing time period we live in. Though remember, abridged series are not dubs. Imagine if the Attack on Titan abridged series was used in place of the actual English dub, even airing on TV rather than given a proper dub. Would it still be popular with all those people? Considering how many people were looking forward to the dub and wanting it on TV, I'm sure those people would be very upset.
No series "needs" a parody dub. That's a personal opinion. Like Eric said, "Tomorrow, it might be your show". If a show you liked was called forgettable and bland by certain people so they decided it to be massacred, you might change your views on the issue. If you feel any show you don't personally approve of is perfectly find to be mistreated, then by all means that is your right. Just understand that not everyone is that callous and uncaring. I would never wish that upon any show, even if I didn't like it. |
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gloverrandal
Posts: 406 Location: Oita |
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The fans of the show first and foremost.
Finding an expression or changing a word to convey meaning, such as changing softcream to ice cream to get the point across is translating. Changing a line about getting ice cream to joking about American politics or religion is writing, however. I don't get a lot of gag dubs. Sgt Frog's dub made no sense to me. Why would you replace jokes about anime with American shows in an anime? It's a safe bet to assume people who are watching an anime also watch anime, like Gundam, but to assume they watch Battlestar Galactica or play Halo? That just sounds like not knowing the audience for a show. Were they trying to aim the show at non-anime fans? That sounds like an odd thing to do for an anime.
I find the idea of wanting a proper release as entitlement to be a very absurd, no offense. As a consumer we are within our right to demand the best product possible.
But that's the point, no one talks about Bamboo Blade anymore so using your logic it should have been given a joke dub so that we'd still be talking about it to this day. The fact you got so defensive over that example just shows that it's okay to do it to a show you may not like, but the idea of doing it to one you do is unacceptable. Your attempts at trying to say a joke dub of Bamboo Blade wouldn't work because of the cover is absurd though and make no sense and seem to be fueled by your own personal attachment or lack thereof to these series. Reverse the series and you can see how other people feel. Consider every gag dub out there someone's Bamboo Blade and that is how they feel about it. |
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6874 Location: Kazune City |
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(The following is from a post by bs3311 that also contained content relevant to the original thread.)
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mdo7
Posts: 6280 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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Whoa OK, I didn't expect most of the off topic ranting of Steven Foster from the List thread to end up here. I don't mind that, but I hope it doesn't turn into a heated one.
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18227 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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I own all of the Ghost Stories DVDs, entirely because I found the English dub immensely entertaining. (And these weren't freebie review copies, either, because ADV wasn't doing that at that point. I purchased them all myself.) I have watched several of the episodes with the direct-translation subtitles, and with the exception of one episode, I can assure you that I never would have bothered with the series if it was dubbed straight.
People who are still to this day pitching a fit about the gag dub was "disrespectful" can complain all they want, but the gag dub was immensely more popular in the U.S. than the base series, which had only a tiny loyal following, ever was. I saw some of the earliest episodes premier dubbed at a 'con, and that very big room was not only packed, but the dub also generated raucously positive reactions - and anime conventions aren't exactly known as bastions for dub-adoring crowds. I strongly believe that the series would have sold only a tenth as much as it did if it had been dubbed straight. And let's not continue to try to use this as an example of what's wrong with anime dubbing or something like that. What ADV did with GS is not something that could have been done successfully with more than a small handful of other series that have come out over the past couple of decades. (Although, frankly, I've seen a few series so lame that I wish that they had been gag-dubbed.) And concerning Foster, I did like a fair amount of his directorial work and agree that he was hardly the only one who got sloppy with some of the rushed dub jobs that they turned out at Sentai. He's been demonized way more than he deserves. |
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dragonrider_cody
Posts: 2541 |
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Key beat me to the punch, with just about everything I was going to say. I would add one more thing though. Making a gag-dub doesn't take anything away from The original. It still exists and you are still able to enjoy it in its true form. In the case of Ghost Stories, ADV didn't edit the video and made the original Japanese audio available with subtitles on the release. That's more than we got for Shin-Chan and the 4Kids shows.
There is some truth to the belief that most people are only still talking about Ghost Stories because of its dub. It did have a small, loyal fan base, but the show only seems to come up in discussion when gag dubs are brought up. That should tell you something. As for Steven Foster, I think the man gets far more hate than he deserves. He did some not so great work, though most of it was as a writer and not a director. He's also directed some amazing dubs, and few that are among the best that have come out. He was also responsible for recruiting a lot of the talent you now hear in Sentai and Funimation dubs, as well as training several of the current directors in Texas. Also, he wasn't fired from Seraphim. He left because Sentai prefers their dubs to be far more accurate to the Japanese version and he wasn't given the liberty he was during the ADV days. |
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Animegomaniac
Posts: 4099 |
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The dub is the only reason the series got a license rescue. Discotek even uses as a selling point, calling it "the hilarious English dub" and as an afterthought they also have "the original Japanese with English subtitles". To the Probashers credit, the company felt they had to clarify that the original version is also there.
Oh, but the case's plot description is 100% about the dub. Yea, it's not Ghost Stories that's the problem as it's kind of a classic because of the dub it's the, right, leopard headed guy's fault. What was that show... Had to look it up, Guin Saga. I myself couldn't make it past the first episode, dubbed or subbed, because I was asking too many questions from the start, from "Is that a mask because cat necks don't work like that?", to "played the game Tekken, now I have to watch the anime?" to "can't have either a prince or a princess but it has to be both and they have to twins? Oh, and useless?" The fans, uh, of that series couldn't take the fact that Foster couldn't see the seriousness of it. I don't know how the argument migrated from Guin Saga to Ghost Stories, maybe people took a really good look at it and saw that it was kind of stupid. "Nah, it's got to be the one about Japanese folklore and Ring adaptations... how does he even talk anyway?" |
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