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Is The Lost Village Actually A Comedy?


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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:04 pm Reply with quote
The immediate problem to me with the claim that Lost Village is comedy is that all of this stuff is explained just as well by another much simpler hypothesis: The Lost Village is a bad show. I mean, maybe this is where I am just more pessimistic but not a ton of the stuff in Lost Village struck me as so absurd or unbelievably bad that it must be intentional. I've seen plenty of anime shows just as poorly structured, tonally inconsistent, and divorced from how humans actually act. It's terrible and ridiculous and maybe sometimes even a little head-shakingly funny but I see little reason to think it intentional. I don't doubt that there is some attempted subversion going on here but it amounts to little more than introducing a bunch of horrible people and then subverting the expectation that they're all gonna die horribly by giving them tragic back-stories that "explain" why they're horrible. I don't see this show's larger trend toward what could be broadly called terrible creative decisions as any sort of deliberate attempt to subvert our expectations that they will make good creative decisions.

I guess too I just have to ask, does it even matter? I'll admit that at the end of the day, none of us know the minds of the creators of Lost Village. Maybe they did make this show as deliberately terrible as possible in some misguided attempt to subvert expectations. But so what? What, fundamentally is the difference between an accidentally bad show and a deliberately bad one? Virtually nothing if, as this article posits, Lost Village plays its "badness" entirely straight. That being the case, a better question I think isn't so much "Is this comedy?" but rather "Is this effective comedy?" and I don't see how it is.

I'll admit that I'm not a big fan of "so bad it's good" to begin with so maybe that's part of it. But still, I think the problem with Lost Village even as just that is that it really isn't that exceptionally, absurdly bad. A lot of what it does "wrong" is actually fairly common of "legitimately" bad anime. Hence, a lot of it isn't really that unexpected or absurd. It's just kinda typical, intentional or not. Hence, my reaction was only rarely to laugh but rather mostly just to sigh. Actually, this is precisely the issue I have with a lot of "so bad it's good" comedy in general. There is the odd thing that actually manages to cross that barrier of sheer unexpected absurdity and be hilarious but mostly you're just watching a show that is bad in pretty bland and uninteresting ways.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 11424
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:16 pm Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:
I've seen plenty of anime shows just as ... divorced from how humans actually act.

The dead-on depiction of how humans actually act in unfamiliar circumstances out of their normal routine was about the only thing I genuinely liked about the series.
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EricJ2



Joined: 01 Feb 2014
Posts: 4016
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:20 pm Reply with quote
Edl01 wrote:
A campy B-Movie style horror anime from the director of Squid Girl and Girls und Panzer.
Where is the argument coming from that this isn't a comedy again?


Then again, you could ask the same question about Akitaroh Daichi going from Kodocha and Elf Princess Rane to Now and Then, Here and There--
Which was unquestionably his "serious" Art piece, but because he was trying too hard to Challenge Himself, ended up as an unholy over-the-top mess. It's not meant to be "parody", but whatever he thought it was supposed to be, it wasn't that either.

Mizushima may have been trying to Challenge Himself with horror, but if the humor was intentional, he didn't succeed at his challenge of breaking out of his style, and if it was unintentional, well, then...
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DrunkAyanami
Get off my lawn



Joined: 27 Feb 2015
Posts: 88
Location: The great state of Vermont
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:02 pm Reply with quote
Josu1362 wrote:
do you know the difference between a myth and a folklore?


No, I'll be honest here. I do not know the difference between a myth and a folklore. But frankly, I would be very interested to hear about ANY myth, folklore/folktale, legend, or fairy tale about silicone boob monsters.

Josu1362 wrote:

and do you know the writer's intent on this show because every watcher that try to explain or do a review fail to understand the writer.


Nope, I totally don't! Which is why I would absolutely love to see more translated interviews with any of the staff from this project! I don't know whether or not I 100% agree with Nick's assessment, but I do see glimpses of awareness/irony/satire from this production that I don't usually see in japanese media.

For me personally, it was that flashback episode to Mitsumune's childhood that clinched it for me. The prominent background synth music that was playing was a dead ringer for the stuff you hear in many 70-80s B horror movies. I've honestly never heard that sort of music in anime (or practically ANYWHERE else for that matter), so it's REALLY hard for me to think that it was unintentional.

Josu1362 wrote:
also it is sad that people care for fan service.


I... don't think I said anything about fanservice? Or did anyone else in this thread? I'm honestly not a big proponent of it myself, unless it adds something to the narrative. You're giving me a run for my money in terms of drunken incoherence here.
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JustinTaco



Joined: 06 Jul 2016
Posts: 118
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:48 pm Reply with quote
Honestly I'm having trouble seeing how people don't think it's a parody.

When they're discovering what Nanakis are and why Masaki doesn't have one, one of them literally says "Oh, so she doesn't have a tragic past?"

The villagers agree on absolutely nothing until they all make the totally rational decision that Masaki is a goddamn ghost. Prior to this they can't even agree on what to call Rock Paper Scissors.

It's been mentioned before, but Lovepon calling for violent executions and even attempting to drown Mitsumune but receiving not even a single ounce of suspicion. In fact, Mikage even invites her to his secret cabal meeting with Nyanta and Hellfire. You even expect Lovepon's flashback to explain why she's so crazy but it's written to specifically not do that.

Mitsumune. Mitsumune. If he's not a parody of himself nothing in this world is real. After probably one of the biggest verbal conflicts between the villagers up to that point his only thought is "Wow I talked to a lot of girls today". Without batting an eyelid he asks Masaki if she wants him to come with her to go to the bathroom, presumably in a bush or some ruins. Not to mention his backstory involves him casually impersonating his brother for half his life because he doesn't want to rock the boat. He's trying to get through the tunnel with Masaki and gets ready to face his fear incarnate... right before it punches him in the stomach and he more or less says "Screw this I'm out of here!". Lovepon is drowning him but the reason he overpowers her is not because he's going to die, it's because he saw her bra through her shirt. That is art.

The bus is this unstoppable force of nature that the bus driver can wield with complete impunity. Several scenes are devoted to the hawks of the group devising ways to hunt a goddamn bus. When it first bursts in to capture Masaki, Mikage orders them to attack a speeding bus. It never runs out of gas and never gets stuck after the first time.

The villagers are literally too tired to care about flaming arrows being shot at them. They're just loafing around as Hellfire handwaves the entire assault while an intense electronic beat plays in the background.

It was implied for a while that Yottsun, ostensibly a black-coded character, was the only actual casualty when "the black guy dies first" trope is basically a joke in itself because of how ridiculously often it happens. To top it all off, he was not only alive, he was reaching personal enlightenment almost 8 episodes ahead of everyone else while they were staging actual witch hunts.

In a 12 episode anime, where time is extremely limited from a production standpoint, groups of characters trail off into totally meaningless tangents with no connection to the plot during important moments. This happens constantly. Certain characters are highlighted in the unique ED sequences with unusual facial expressions that imply they'll play a role in the next episode but it all means absolutely nothing. The next episode previews are pretending to foreshadow events next week, but actually serve no purpose. The episode titles are equally irrelevant to anything that happens in the episode. The sheer amount of clearly and intentionally wasted effort would never fly during modern fast-paced anime production unless it was exactly the point.

The show ends with them happily driving away in the bus while Lovepon jokingly yells out "Execute him, I say!" and they all laugh in unison like the end of an episode of a dorky family sitcom.

Believe me, I've watched some terrible shows. You can tell when someone's trying and failing miserably. It's not funny, it's painful. Mayoiga is comedic genius.
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DrunkAyanami
Get off my lawn



Joined: 27 Feb 2015
Posts: 88
Location: The great state of Vermont
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:23 am Reply with quote
JustinTaco wrote:
It was implied for a while that Yottsun, ostensibly a black-coded character, was the only actual casualty when "the black guy dies first" trope is basically a joke in itself because of how ridiculously often it happens.


That's a interesting cultural trope that you've brought up there. Would a Japanese national actually recognize a "black guy dies first" horror movie cliche? Their media tends to skew sooooo homogeneously Japanese that I feel that this was completely unintentional on their part. I read that plot line more as the "creepy potential rapist and bad guy" dies first, which seems like a more universal trope.

The rest of your points... many of them individually just seem like "just bad writing", but I agree, when you put them all together, it's hard to argue that everything in Lost Village is simply unintentionally bad. Especially with a staff who SEEMS to know what they are doing.

On the other hand, this makes me wonder if maybe I need to go back and rewatch Another. Maybe that was also intended as a comedy and I just completely, totally missed it. And now I feel kind of ill thinking that.
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JustinTaco



Joined: 06 Jul 2016
Posts: 118
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:29 am Reply with quote
DrunkAyanami wrote:
JustinTaco wrote:
It was implied for a while that Yottsun, ostensibly a black-coded character, was the only actual casualty when "the black guy dies first" trope is basically a joke in itself because of how ridiculously often it happens.


That's a interesting cultural trope that you've brought up there. Would a Japanese national actually recognize a "black guy dies first" horror movie cliche? Their media tends to skew sooooo homogeneously Japanese that I feel that this was completely unintentional on their part. I read that plot line more as the "creepy potential rapist and bad guy" dies first, which seems like a more universal trope.

The rest of your points... many of them individually just seem like "just bad writing", but I agree, when you put them all together, it's hard to argue that everything in Lost Village is simply unintentionally bad. Especially with a staff who SEEMS to know what they are doing.

On the other hand, this makes me wonder if maybe I need to go back and rewatch Another. Maybe that was also intended as a comedy and I just completely, totally missed it. And now I feel kind of ill thinking that.


American culture is the most heavily exported worldwide and many of your favorite Japanese VAs have huge lists of dubbing credits for American movies and games. I'm not saying it's a definite but I don't think it's unlikely for people from other countries to understand American tropes. Especially Japan which engages in a great deal of cultural exchange with the U.S.

That's my point. And there were tons and tons of items I left out. A lot of them were covered in the article. The rest were just a constant bombardment during every episode. It'd be hard to actually list them all. Few shows have ever made me laugh so hard.
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relyat08



Joined: 20 Mar 2013
Posts: 4125
Location: Northern Virginia
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:06 am Reply with quote
JustinTaco wrote:
Honestly I'm having trouble seeing how people don't think it's a parody.

When they're discovering what Nanakis are and why Masaki doesn't have one, one of them literally says "Oh, so she doesn't have a tragic past?"

The villagers agree on absolutely nothing until they all make the totally rational decision that Masaki is a goddamn ghost. Prior to this they can't even agree on what to call Rock Paper Scissors.

It's been mentioned before, but Lovepon calling for violent executions and even attempting to drown Mitsumune but receiving not even a single ounce of suspicion. In fact, Mikage even invites her to his secret cabal meeting with Nyanta and Hellfire. You even expect Lovepon's flashback to explain why she's so crazy but it's written to specifically not do that.

Mitsumune. Mitsumune. If he's not a parody of himself nothing in this world is real. After probably one of the biggest verbal conflicts between the villagers up to that point his only thought is "Wow I talked to a lot of girls today". Without batting an eyelid he asks Masaki if she wants him to come with her to go to the bathroom, presumably in a bush or some ruins. Not to mention his backstory involves him casually impersonating his brother for half his life because he doesn't want to rock the boat. He's trying to get through the tunnel with Masaki and gets ready to face his fear incarnate... right before it punches him in the stomach and he more or less says "Screw this I'm out of here!". Lovepon is drowning him but the reason he overpowers her is not because he's going to die, it's because he saw her bra through her shirt. That is art.

The bus is this unstoppable force of nature that the bus driver can wield with complete impunity. Several scenes are devoted to the hawks of the group devising ways to hunt a goddamn bus. When it first bursts in to capture Masaki, Mikage orders them to attack a speeding bus. It never runs out of gas and never gets stuck after the first time.

The villagers are literally too tired to care about flaming arrows being shot at them. They're just loafing around as Hellfire handwaves the entire assault while an intense electronic beat plays in the background.

It was implied for a while that Yottsun, ostensibly a black-coded character, was the only actual casualty when "the black guy dies first" trope is basically a joke in itself because of how ridiculously often it happens. To top it all off, he was not only alive, he was reaching personal enlightenment almost 8 episodes ahead of everyone else while they were staging actual witch hunts.

In a 12 episode anime, where time is extremely limited from a production standpoint, groups of characters trail off into totally meaningless tangents with no connection to the plot during important moments. This happens constantly. Certain characters are highlighted in the unique ED sequences with unusual facial expressions that imply they'll play a role in the next episode but it all means absolutely nothing. The next episode previews are pretending to foreshadow events next week, but actually serve no purpose. The episode titles are equally irrelevant to anything that happens in the episode. The sheer amount of clearly and intentionally wasted effort would never fly during modern fast-paced anime production unless it was exactly the point.

The show ends with them happily driving away in the bus while Lovepon jokingly yells out "Execute him, I say!" and they all laugh in unison like the end of an episode of a dorky family sitcom.

Believe me, I've watched some terrible shows. You can tell when someone's trying and failing miserably. It's not funny, it's painful. Mayoiga is comedic genius.


+100

I would like to think this post might clear things up for more people, but if they made it all the way through Nick's post already and still don't think it's an intentional comedy, it's unlikely they ever will.
I literally do not understand how you could possibly think otherwise.
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#838774



Joined: 27 May 2015
Posts: 158
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:53 am Reply with quote
I thought it was pretty obvious that it was a deadpan comedy/commentary on anime and its tropes. I didn't particularly care for the show or delivery, but that much seemed clear from the beginning. I'm guessing that the same people who don't "get" this are the same people who didn't get "The Cabin in the Woods".
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Herald Of JOJO



Joined: 16 Oct 2015
Posts: 144
Location: Malaysia
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 4:43 am Reply with quote
This article was interesting, particularly concerning what humour is. I can see where Nick's coming from. Though, I'd believe that The Lost Village's "sense of humour" would've pushed me away from it. Just not for me, that's all.
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Galap
Moderator


Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 2354
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 4:47 am Reply with quote
I think that the question of comedy/not comedy and parody/serious story is a bit of a false dichotomy.

In the case of this anime, I think it's a little of all of that. I personally did find a lot of the absurd elements and timing funny (like the hippopotamus song and puking on the bus driver), in addition to the way that it violated a lot of expectations (like you seem to expect that after going to this remote village, all these characters will start dying one by one, but that's not what happens. Or that once what's going on is revealed, everyone will end up having to learn from their experiences and go back to society, but some of them leave and some of them stay.

Sure, a lot of the monsters' appearences and what happened to the people to create them were silly, but you can still see that the events that gave the Nanaki their forms were things that were genuinely distressing for that person and you can feel for them.

But there's more to it than that. If I were to try to boil down what I think this show is doing to something simple, I think the best answer is something like as follows:

Taking shots at the kind of symbolic and overwrought capital L 'Literature' that is often praised as being the 'great works' and taught in school and the like. These shots are supposed to be funny, but at the same time the show is also intentionally trying to tell (and in my opinion succeeding) a more heartfelt and meaningful narrative than those things do.

Take Lovepon for example. Look at her backstory of her and her mother getting beat by the priest. It's pretty terrible and doesn't pull punches about the kind of things that can happen, and it serves the classical role in these kind of stories as "oh man, look at what happened in her past. This explains her current behavior." But, does it really explain her obsession with execution and torture?... not really. Nor does it justify it in the slightest. But in a lot of these self-important works, this kind of thing in a character's backstory is used to try to explain or justify them making poor choices (i.e. something bad happened to them, and that's why they're behaving inappropriately. So let's smugly say that it's all just so.)

Or for another example take Nyanta. It's really saddening to see the bullying that she puts up with, and I can't help but somewhat cheer for her when she gets the air pistol to defend herself with, while simultaneously faceplaming and saying 'oh man, bad move'. Part of me laughs with her as her tormentors get their comeuppance by getting struck in the head by plastic ball bearings, but there is something a bit disturbing about the way she giggles with self-righteous glee. You see that it's taking her to a bit of a bad place, bringing out the worst in her. It's one of those things where you see and understand the motivations as to why certain decisions are getting taken, while at the same time recognizing that they are mistakes.

Ultimately, what makes the comedy so funny for me in this that it's also serious enough that I actually care about and engage with what's happening. The most common reason that comedy falls flat for me is when everything is a farce and nothing serious happens, and the characters are all incompetent and only exist as joke vehicles. Comedy done like this (which to me seems to be most of it) always makes me disengage and stop caring about what's happening, so I don't find it funny. On the other hand when I care about the characters, events and setting, and when there are some serious themes and weight being thrown around, the unexpected and jokes pack a lot more punch.
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Hameyadea



Joined: 23 Jun 2014
Posts: 3679
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 7:51 am Reply with quote
I couldn't view the story as a serious horror/thriller/drama show, but more of a dark comedy/borderline satire.
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yurihellsing





PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:06 am Reply with quote
To me the whole show felt like a filler episode from the X-files.
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Hiroki not Takuya



Joined: 17 Apr 2012
Posts: 2542
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:44 am Reply with quote
Galap wrote:
I think that the question of comedy/not comedy and parody/serious story is a bit of a false dichotomy...If I were to try to boil down, what I think this show is...Taking shots at the kind of symbolic and overwrought capital L 'Literature' that is often praised as being the 'great works' and taught in school and the like. These shots are supposed to be funny, but at the same time the show is also intentionally trying to tell (and in my opinion succeeding) a more heartfelt and meaningful narrative than those things do...

Ultimately, what makes the comedy so funny for me in this that it's also serious enough that I actually care about and engage with what's happening. The most common reason that comedy falls flat for me is when everything is a farce and nothing serious happens, and the characters are all incompetent and only exist as joke vehicles. Comedy done like this (which to me seems to be most of it) always makes me disengage and stop caring about what's happening, so I don't find it funny. On the other hand when I care about the characters, events and setting, and when there are some serious themes and weight being thrown around, the unexpected and jokes pack a lot more punch.
I think I am approaching enlightenment! Well said sir. What I think may be happening with opinions is that the reasons you gave for finding this funny are the very reasons why I don't. I think I can say I see the elements you and The Creamer see as "funny" and evidence of comedy, but they strike me as unfinished statements. Like, the statement "This statement is a joke" to me conveys no humor and is non-sequitur (dare I say absurdist?), but you would think "thats so funny, of course is not a joke!" Example "Wow I talked to a lot of girls today", comparatively it was a truthful statement and so conveys no humor. Some of the Nanaki would be ridiculous were it not for the facts revealed in the backstories which makes me relate to the reasons they would be terrifying to the individual, and so aren't funny. And I especially don't find the fact that the backstories are constructed to render these otherwise humorous events unfunny, as funny. But at least now I understand.

Justin Taco wrote:
If you had to think for minutes at a time about why what was happening was funny then you were probably watching on autopilot.
Oh I didn't have to think for a second about anything in Mayoiga and I'm never on autopilot. I recognized all the things you and Galap and The Creamer mentioned instantly and thought "funny I Guess???" Although I think anyone who found this actually funny probably did so after some time thinking because it wasn't immediately recognizable. I did like the absurdity of the Bus, but thought it might have been a continuity fail and so didn't register as solidly funny. Also, Lovepon was the only actually funny character. The absurd joke about the announced follow-on manga series is that it doesn't include her or Nyanta.
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Spleen



Joined: 29 Jun 2012
Posts: 56
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:15 pm Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:
The immediate problem to me with the claim that Lost Village is comedy is that all of this stuff is explained just as well by another much simpler hypothesis: The Lost Village is a bad show.


An interesting variant on Hanlon's razor: Never ascribe to parody that which can be adequately be explained by incompetence.
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