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Mnemosyne - Mnemosyne no Musume-tachi.


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Luxa



Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 65
Location: Budapest/Érd, Hungary
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:56 pm Reply with quote
ShadowTrader wrote:
Most people who watch anime refuse to rate what they watch as bad because no one actually wants to admit they picked a bad show to watch, and have it reflect poorly on their tastes or choices, lets call it fear of criticism.

Hmm, there are plenty of badly rated shows in the Encyclopedia, so I don't think that people are afraid to show that their decision to watch was wrong.

ShadowTrader wrote:
Most of the positive ratings also come from hype, when a new show comes out it usually comes out with a blast and then finds its spot a few years later on, take for example The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, it was in the top 5 when it premiered and now its dropping back.

Yes, that's true, but remember that all of the aforementioned shows (especially TMoHS) had lots and lots of bad votes and not all of them was trolling. (Like the guy who gave TMoHS worst ever in every available language.) So I think that people genuinely like this show.

ShadowTrader wrote:

I'll also have to disagree with your criticism and say that it really had no positive side. For everything that it put out there I can find at least 2 anime that did that and this much better.

I admit that I could find anime which did this or that much better. But I don't think that seeing a perfect movie about say car-racing should lead me not able to appreciate worse yet enjoyable movies about car-racing. I think that Mnemosyne does have its merits, only they shrink next to its flaws. Shrink really-really small.

Dorcas_Aurelia wrote:
I'm inclined to think that a significant portion of the votes are from people rating on the enjoyment of the unusually high content of sex and gore. Personally, I found even the quality of this diminished quickly over the course of the series, to say nothing of the plot.

I tend to think that you are right regarding people enjoying the high sexual and violence content, but I'm still waiting for someone to own it up. Smile Once again, I'm not against these content in general, but was these here really good enough to overlook it flaws? Oh, and I haven't thought about that, but the quality of these content does diminish quickly. I can't say the same about the quantity though...
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Kruszer



Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 7986
Location: Minnesota, USA
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:43 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Now on the the dark side:
- If I anyone ever asks me to point him an anime with gratuitous nudity and sex, I won't have to think long. Mind you, I have nothing against sex and nudity as long as they have a sense in the story. (Neither am I against girls love, I even enjoyed Strawberry Panic!.) But spoiler[ nude piercing-torture, lesbian orgies with a girl who looks like she's 14 or angels who rape-eat their victims ] just for the hell of it felt contrived. And excessive clothing damage every other minute didn't help either.. .By the way spoiler[what did the angels exactly do to the dog]?
- And I had problems with the story as well, for example Rin spoiler[ reconstructing herself from little bits in the ocean and miraculously finding the egg during that time.] And I think that explanations that contain the word fate are invalid. Also if she could achieve that, why couldn't Laura (the red-haired one) spoiler[ reconstruct herself? If it is explained with only her head being immortal, what was the deal before she got a cybernetic body?] The rest was mostly thrown together just to shamelessly exploit the sometimes undeniable cool-factor.

So my overall opinion is not that bad as my present rating, but I'm really curious about why this show is rated that high.


Well all the violence and titulation was a plus not a negative in my book, animated violence doesn't really bother me at all since it's obviously not real and the nudity is just art. Plus all the violence was reduced to a less serious level since most of the characters could just regenerate the damage. I also liked the storylines and found them interesting, the main characters were very likable and I cared what happened to them, and production values were nice. All in all, it was fun, a campy and enjoyable little series that's so bad it's good like the Ikki Tousen series and Tenjho Tenge. I gave it a Very Good, only downside was the disturbing nature of a few scenes and the plot holes which kept it from getting higher rating.
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ShadowTrader



Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 231
Location: NJ
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:28 pm Reply with quote
Kruszer wrote:

Well all the violence and titulation was a plus not a negative in my book, animated violence doesn't really bother me at all since it's obviously not real and the nudity is just art. Plus all the violence was reduced to a less serious level since most of the characters could just regenerate the damage. I also liked the storylines and found them interesting, the main characters were very likable and I cared what happened to them, and production values were nice. All in all, it was fun, a campy and enjoyable little series that's so bad it's good like the Ikki Tousen series and Tenjho Tenge. I gave it a Very Good, only downside was the disturbing nature of a few scenes and the plot holes which kept it from getting higher rating.


Thats very surprising coming from someone who has seen more than 500 anime, I would think your tastes might be a bit more refined. Don't get me wrong I enjoy gore, sex, and action as much as the next guy but this series lacked tact and class. It felt incomplete, purposelessly graphic, and it just didn't have the right touch to put it all together. Another problem I have is that you compare to Ikki Tousen. Its completely unlike Ikki Tousen. Ikki Tousen's whole purpose was to make a plot so as to allow as many opportunities for fanservice, girls ripping girls clothing off, and lesbian kissing, almost every other frame angle was either of panties or cleavage. This show, although similarly grotesque in its completely unrelated and unwarranted nudity and sex scenes, at least tried to portray some kind of sci-fi plot and tie it all together. Do you see the difference? One build a plot around fanservice and sex and the other added it to get attention just so it wouldn't be another mediocre sci-fi anime.
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Kruszer



Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 7986
Location: Minnesota, USA
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:44 pm Reply with quote
Refined is another way of saying narrow or limited which I don't think is good. That leads to the darkside of the force, eliteism. I'd rather be open and optimistic, being able to see the good as well as the bad in things, it's a lot more fun.

I do know what I like and have a wide variety of tastes and watch pretty much anything that looks like it will entertain me in some fashion whether it's the half of me that likes girls, guns, violence and explosions or the half that loves mental stimulation like philosophy or psychology. Sure, I prefer the more sophisticated and thought provoking works which get better ratings from me but I see no problem getting unsophisticated and watching something that's entertaining on much simpler level too. Mnemosyne was rated as highly as it is because it entertains both halves of me. No it's not perfect there's better shows out there that do the same thing and it's got it's flaws but I enjoyed watching it and that's all that matters.

As for your complaint about my comparison as the sentence suggests they're alike in that they're both awful enough that they become entertaining to watch somehow, nothing more nothing less. I don't know how to explain it better than that.
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ShadowTrader



Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 231
Location: NJ
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:44 am Reply with quote
Kruszer wrote:
Mnemosyne was rated as highly as it is because it entertains both halves of me. No it's not perfect there's better shows out there that do the same thing and it's got it's flaws but I enjoyed watching it and that's all that matters.


I understand what you are saying, but its not "all that matters." Rating a bad anime 'very good' gives the perception that its entertainment value out weighs all its negatives. This kind of rating ruins the anime industry and just irritates me to no end. Creators start believing that as long as they put something entertaining out there, which could be a monkey jumping through hoops, people will be stupid enough to watch because they will see the ratings over inflated because people such as yourself rated it based on entertainment value rather then purpose, style, depth, or creativity. That kind of selfish thinking just ruins it for people like me who always try to ask for better.
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Kruszer



Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 7986
Location: Minnesota, USA
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:55 pm Reply with quote
Well, tough. Enjoyment factor is a large part of how I rate (about half) and very important to me, the other is the shows technical merits (story, characterization, animation quality, music, etc.)

IE: The Anatomy of the my Mnemosyne rating:

At least somewhat purposeful Violence = Automatic So So rating
Nudity/Sex = +1 to Decent
Story that kept me interested + 1 to Good
Characters I really liked and got attached to = +1 to Very Good
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ShadowTrader



Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 231
Location: NJ
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:05 pm Reply with quote
So you are honestly telling me that after 500 anime you are never bored with the same old anime, and don't give a shit what kind of crap will come out next as long as its mildly entertaining!? If thats true then I can come up with only two explanations: either you are mega otaku with no social life and hate all other people, thus your selfishness, or you lied and don't really have the experience you claim you do. I can not believe that anyone would always settle for 'very good' and not demand excellence, its just unnatural.
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Dorcas_Aurelia



Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 5344
Location: Philly
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:06 pm Reply with quote
You might want to dial it back a notch, ShadowTrader. What's so wrong about someone not being finicky in their choice of enjoyable anime? It certainly doesn't call for ad hominem attacks. I disagree with Kruszer's opinion that Mnemosyne's plot was anywhere near interesting enough to keep my attention, but I'm not dishing out insults because of it.
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Kruszer



Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 7986
Location: Minnesota, USA
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:12 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
So you are honestly telling me that after 500 anime you are never bored with the same old anime, and don't give a shit what kind of crap will come out next as long as its mildly entertaining!? If thats true then I can come up with only two explanations: either you are mega otaku with no social life and hate all other people, thus your selfishness, or you lied and don't really have the experience you claim you do. I can not believe that anyone would always settle for 'very good' and not demand excellence, its just unnatural.


I choose option 3: I like what I like and that's my opinion, which I'm allowed to have, and not be personally insulted for as stipulated by board rules, which I suggest you review. Rolling Eyes

Anyhow, yes even after I've seen 527 anime over the past 13 or so years that I still watch anime for what it is a form of entertainment. It's only a hobby, a way to pass the hours when I'm not working or at college, so chill.

As for the last sentence you totally lost me. A series is only worth the rating your opinion tells you it is and that's the only thing you can trust when rating series and film, yourself. Even if you rate on the technical merits like you do someone else can still disagree with you and turn your view of things into your opinion. It's not called My Anime for nothing, everyone rates selfishly whether they want to admit it or not because an opinion should be selfish or it defeats the point of having one.

A thousand people may tell you that Titanic was a great movie and it even won awards but you might watch it and hate it, and those same people might loathe Black Lagoon, however, you and I obviously liked it. "One man's trash is another man's treasure" as the saying goes. It's a universal concept that there are always dissenters out there; people that absolutely hate things that you think are absolutely un-hatable and people who like things that you deem to be unlikable. It's crazy but that's just how the world works and there's nothing you can do about it. it drives me nuts sometimes too.


Last edited by Kruszer on Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:28 pm; edited 2 times in total
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ShadowTrader



Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 231
Location: NJ
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:31 pm Reply with quote
Dorcas_Aurelia wrote:
You might want to dial it back a notch, ShadowTrader. What's so wrong about someone not being finicky in their choice of enjoyable anime? It certainly doesn't call for ad hominem attacks. I disagree with Kruszer's opinion that Mnemosyne's plot was anywhere near interesting enough to keep my attention, but I'm not dishing out insults because of it.


That wasn't my intention. I have no need for ad hominem attacks, because I have no enemies here, I'm only trying to find an answer to my frustration and confusion. In my endless quest on these forums for the unification of fans to ask for better from the industry I often run into these roadblocks but I never resort to attacking individuals.
Kruszer is entitled to his/her opinion, and I am entitled to disagree, its just the way it is, nothing personal.
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Dorcas_Aurelia



Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 5344
Location: Philly
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:42 pm Reply with quote
If it's not personal, than there's no need to use words like liar or imply someone's lack of social life. Maybe some posts should be re-read and their content reconsidered before posting, so as not to give the wrong impression.
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ShadowTrader



Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 231
Location: NJ
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:34 pm Reply with quote
And who made you the forum police? Maybe someone should just shut up and mind their own business.
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Keonyn
Subscriber



Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 5567
Location: Coon Rapids, MN
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:08 pm Reply with quote
Well, here you go, now the "forum police" are on site; and now I'm cranky since this interrupted the consumption of my forum donut.

Dorcas makes a valid point, accusing someone of being a liar or someone with no life because they disagree with you is uncalled for. There are plenty of ways to have a discussion in a civil manner, and it's also part of the rules to do so. It is your right to disagree, but that doesn't mean you can call them names or fire off personal attacks. So let's all play nice or I'll have to be the bad guy and lock this and ruin it for everyone, and I hate being the villain, I'm just no good at it.
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Dorcas_Aurelia



Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 5344
Location: Philly
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:24 pm Reply with quote
My apologies Shadow Trader.
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ShadowTrader



Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 231
Location: NJ
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:02 pm Reply with quote
Same. Thank you.
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