Forum - View topicSword Art Online II (TV).
|
Goto page Previous Next |
| Author | Message | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Bugnin
Posts: 575 |
|
|||
I don't think it was expertly implemented either, but this is for all intents and purposes a pretty talented but green writer learning from his mistakes early on. You can tell as the chapters go by, the quality of the work picks up. Maybe that's why I'm a little more forgiving of his early stuff (except for ALO which was an abortion IMO). |
||||
|
||||
|
Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11416 |
|
|||
Max's previous comments have made it clear that he does not understand that people who died in SAO also died in real life, and several attempts to apprise him of this have clearly failed, so I think we can safely ignore portions of his critique that hinge on that understanding. |
||||
|
||||
jl07045
 Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
|
|||
PTSD creates real biochemical changes in the brain. If it were handling PTSD with maturity, people would need therapy and medication. People with that disorder frequently relive the traumatic memory, they can have nightmares, bouts of anxiety seemingly unrelated with the traumatic event. Triggers for the memory can be the most basic things, not just guns or meeting someone from spoiler[Laughing Coffin]. Even a simple action like cutting bread could trigger a re-experience for someone like Kirito, let alone all the people-cutting he does in ALO. Shinon would be much more likely to avoid guns, virtual or real, and anything connected with them than try to overcome her fear by playing a gun-centred VR. And that's after 5 minutes in google on PTSD. Suddenly introducing PTSD in the plot is not mature handling. It doesn't actually explore PTSD. Instead a often crippling illness is used as a tool for heightening drama (and will likely be overcome in a typically anime fashion) when it is needed and the strings are again easily seen. Maybe less so for Shinon, but definitely for Kirito. |
||||
|
||||
Vaisaga
 Posts: 13230 |
|
|||
|
The thing with these conditions is that symptoms are not completely universal. People are affected by it in different ways to differing degrees. There's no single 'correct' way to portray it.
Also as a culture Japan doesn't really see such disorders as an actual thing. We might see it as a sickness requiring treatment, while they see it as just the way a person is. |
||||
|
||||
|
jl07045
Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
|
|||
I don't know about Japan as a culture, but a number of anime certainly has a tendency to deal with psychological issues as something that people can "snap out of", which is a prime sign that a disorder is not handled maturely. PTSD is a diagnose, not a way a person "is". It means a medical practitioner has deemed it that someone's problems are bad enough to need treatment. |
||||
|
||||
|
Bugnin
Posts: 575 |
|
|||
That isn't exactly what's going on, and the disorder is hardly being made light of. Saying "the only way for this to be handled correctly is for them to be seeing therapists" is just wrong. Every person is affected by it differently. As Vaisaga noted, Japan doesn't even have readily accessible treatment for that sort of thing. As for how it is dealt with, that also varies from person to person. While it isn't something that can be "snapped" out of, it's something that with the right approach can be more easily managed by re-wiring the brain. The trick is finding out what works and what doesn't. Sinon is trying to self-medicate through GGO, which seems to work for her, and finding another human being she really connects with seems to have alleviated some of the trauma. One common way for people to deal with severe stress is to join support groups where they can meet others with similar problems and not feel so heavily burdened. Sinon's improvement after meeting Kirito wasn't to show that she had "snapped" out of it; it was to show that she had found the best solution to her problem. |
||||
|
||||
|
jl07045
Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
|
|||
"Every person is affected differently" is neither here nor there. There is a range of symptoms that allows a professional to say "Yes, this is PTSD", and I hardly think someone would diagnose it based on only one symptom. As for the ways to combat it, not seeking professional help for at least counsel if not therapy would be among the more unwise ways, because, PTSD entails changes in the brain and the professional would be the one to advise treatment based on each individual case. My point is that in SAO post-traumatic stress disorder is not handled maturely, because a 5-minute trip to wikipedia or any online psychology journal can tell you that the portrayal of this issue is too limited in scope and purpose to call it that way. Imo mature handling would mean educating the audience about PTSD beyond saying: "Look, these two characters had a trauma and now they can't function in certain situations, when the plot requires it." Also I don't think Sinon would play GGO. VRs work by fooling the brain into thinking that what happens is real. You can consciously know that it's not, which helps you to adjust your reasoning and voluntary actions, but trauma flashbacks are entirely involuntary. One was triggered even when that girl-bully mimicked a gun with her hand. Guns in the VR should affect her the same way as far as I can tell. |
||||
|
||||
HaruhiToy
 Posts: 4118 |
|
|||
A simulation that you are consciously aware of can also affect your involuntary and sub-conscious reactions. This has been demonstrated many times not only in peer-reviewed science but also many videos on YouTube. The basis for Sinon's character is perfectly supportable. |
||||
|
||||
|
Bugnin
Posts: 575 |
|
|||
And this is where your argument falls apart. First off, VR games do not "fool the brain into thinking it's real." Nobody playing GGO really believes they're actually shooting real bullets at each other. Come on, now. Second, google "immersion therapy" and get back to me if you think playing GGO was not a viable idea for Sinon's treatment. The trick is to find stimuli close enough to the edge to her root problem, but not past the line where her anxiety attacks are triggered. Sinon's brain knows nothing in GGO is real, and therefore she can exist in that world, where anything remotely resembling a gun in the real world can trigger a panic attack. This is her solution to finding a happy medium in the hopes that she can re-wire her brain to function more normally. I won't say hers was a textbook solution, as I'm not a professional. However, this is exactly the type of solution I'd expect a teenager to come up with. You're trying way too hard to argue this. It's a losing battle. GGO certainly has flaws, albeit fewer than its predecessors. Its handling of PTSD is really one of its strengths. Your example of PTSD done wrong would be Tsunade in Naruto, where she basically eliminates her problem through willpower and no form of therapy whatsoever. |
||||
|
||||
|
Bugnin
Posts: 575 |
|
|||
|
Wiki actually has some input on this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersion_therapy
Pretty neat. Last edited by Bugnin on Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
||||
|
||||
|
jl07045
Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
|
|||
I think this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_reality_therapy, helps your case much better. I guess that's enough to suspend my disbelief then, even though that's an actual therapy that gets monitored by a specialist. I doesn't much affect what I said about PTSD being handled maturely though. My problem is about how and to what extent the disorder is used in the story. As an example where PTSD is handled maturely, I'm rewatching West Wing so this is the first that comes to my mind http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noël_(The_West_Wing). I'm talking about the episode only though. After that PTSD is just dropped altogether. |
||||
|
||||
|
Vaisaga
Posts: 13230 |
|
|||
Right, but that's where the cultural significance comes in. A Japanese medical practitioner might not see these problems as something in need of treatment, because in their country it's not considered an actual disorder. Just because the American Psychiatric Association labels something as a disorder doesn't make it a universal truth. Did you know that homosexuality used to be considered a mental illness? It's not anymore. Notice how the term PTSD isn't used once in the show. I don't recall any other anime ever using the term either. The writers don't treat it as a serious mental disorder because to them, it isn't. I'm not going to fault them for that since that's just how their culture is. In the first place, we should probably check to make sure they'd actually be diagnosed with PTSD. PTSD has become one of those buzz words people sometimes throw around incorrectly (people still think Schizophrenia and Dissociative Identity Disorder are the same thing). |
||||
|
||||
|
HaruhiToy
Posts: 4118 |
|
|||
I think more than one anime has revealed any number of times just how backward Japan is when it comes to dealing with mental illness. Kirito's frisky nurse did as good a job on it as I have ever seen in an anime. I am pretty sure they have and will improve things but that culture of which you speak runs pretty deep. |
||||
|
||||
|
Vaisaga
Posts: 13230 |
|
|||
|
I'm not entirely convinced their way is all bad, though. Granted people might not get the treatment they need, but they also don't need to suffer from the stigma that comes with having a label. My brother has a disorder, but I couldn't tell you which one. My parents never had him formally diagnosed because they don't want to limit him to some label. He is himself rather than some one with a disorder. He still gets the help he needs, of course, but the mentality is "he's not as smart as everyone else so he needs extra help," not "he has a disorder and needs treatment."
Also, human will power can be a formidable thing. If they believe their problems are something they can overcome, they just might do so. But tell them it's impossible without proper treatment and they'll resign themselves to that. It's like that one guy who solved an unsolvable math problem because he was unaware that it was unsolvable. |
||||
|
||||
Lain'sHairline
 Posts: 158 Location: Dallas, TX |
|
|||
|
Somebody stop Nerf Gun, he's mad I tell you. Mad!
|
||||
|
||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group