Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! [2009-11-20]
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TheVok
Posts: 613 Location: North York, Ontario, Canada |
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Whoa, you're bringing up a bunch of opposing points there. I certainly didn't espouse all of them. What I said is that a Japanese perspective of German culture isn't going to be the same as a North American perspective and, indeed, there's no 'delicate situation' between Japan and Germany. (One of the reasons I mentioned Japanese beer at the end is, from what I recall, it's based on German beer.) I then brought up the relationship between Canada and Britain. From an outside perspective, one can say that Britain invaded, colonized and exploited Canada. But as I then very clearly pointed out, that does NOT mean Canadians (of any type) resent Britain en masse today. When the royals visited the other week, we mostly just ignored them; it's not the love they used to get, but it's certainly not anti-British rioting, either. Reading your posts, I'm surprised you'd think I misstated all that. More likely you misread it! |
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dizzon
 Posts: 338 |
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I know I'm going to regret getting involved in this pointless bickering but, racial attitudes were different everywhere, not just in the US. The Germans thought they were superior, the US and Britain thought they were superior and the Japanese considered themselves superior to everyone else as well. No-one was innocent of racial and cultural persecution at the time(the context of WWII).
Propaganda was quite prevalent at the time, everyone used it. The Japanese characterized Americans as demons and cannibalistic ogres that would threaten the Japanese way of life. There are two sides of every coin for better or worse.
There is a huge difference between having a few people within a government that would consider it and the government as a whole actually thinking it to be a viable option as a part of policy. |
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MonkeyFunk
 Posts: 93 |
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I'm disappointed that everyone in Answerfans is using the terms "American" and "Western" to mean the same thing. I mean:
Er, no, because the Comic Book Code only exsts in America. Saying that the entire Western world was affected by it seems a bit culturally myopic. To pick just one other Western country, consider the UK. British television has produced adult animation about mental illness, the holocaust, atomic warfare and problems with the British legal system amongst many other things. Doesn't any of that deserve to be discussed at least as much as kids' fantasy stuff like Avatar? |
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pparker
 Posts: 1185 Location: Florida |
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To those who've cross-posted... sorry. Maybe later...
No, I had Vashfanatic in mind. It's obvious Pandadice was being juvenile, or at best was misinformed.
Yes it is... oh, sorry, your time is up. You'll have to pay more if you want to continue the argument  .
Yes, I'm being snarky with you. I'm not sure why you reacted so snarkily to what I wrote. I gave you the genocide bit, even though technically the definition fits (lit. "killing a tribe"). If we had exterminated the Japanese, history would have said we committed genocide, regardless of the reason. Well, not our history books, but that's the next point... My quote of Mohawk52's statement wasn't directed at you personally. The convention in this forum is to not double-post. I included that remark to underline the basic idea behind my statements--as I mentioned--and as a general one to those with excessive faith in school history books and the History Channel. My intention is to promote deeper inspection of history. Yes, the victors do quite literally write the history that most people get, certainly through secondary education levels, and for the most part at university level unless they specialize in it. What you read in school texts may not be "untrue", but it's highly selective, and generally leaves out the bits that would reflect negatively on the authoring nation (unless it can be used to support the author's political agenda). Ironically for this discussion, after the war Japanese educators and students were required to literally black out many passages in existing text books until new "revised" books approved by the U.S. could be delivered to schools. It's only a few dedicated, professional historians who strive to stay unbiased and present the set of facts that come closest to a "true" picture, fairly representing all parties involved. I enjoy the History Channel. I own most documentary series produced about WW II. But they are not my source for getting a thorough understanding of historical events. Far less information can be conveyed via video and a spoken script than can be via a professionally-researched and documented history book focused on a specific aspect or event. The sheer volume of data alone in some cases ensures a more balanced account. If you want a truly misleading platitude, here you go: "A picture is worth a thousand words."
Nothing, except that thinking has evolved on race in some areas of the world and modern technology has enabled proliferation of better ideas as well as force prevention of extreme racial violence. Have the Earth undergo a cataclysmic event that destroys our technological infrastructure, and it's back to the Middle Ages in three generations. |
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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dizzon
Posts: 338 |
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That's OK, I wouldn't worry about it. I'm not concerned with whether or not you reply.
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leafy sea dragon
 Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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Among shonen shows and their reluctance to kill off good guys, at least we got Death Note, where it happens so often that it seems to want to make up for the other series' not doing it.
I get the feeling that popularity polls have something to do with it too. The feedback shows the authors and the publishers that every character has some sort of group of fans, and I'd bet most don't want to risk alienating that group by killing that character off. I mean, with the case of Death Note being that wildly different case, people STILL can't get over some of the characters' deaths. I guess some of them would be spoilers so I won't mention them, but this is a consequence of going in the other direction: You suddenly get people saying, "This series sucks!" because their favorite character has been permanently eliminated. To Deadwing: As of late, we DO have at least one adult-oriented aniamted drama on American television, which is the later seasons of Moral Orel. It began as a comedy (though a satirical one), but from the last parts of the second season and onward, it became a serial drama. It was pulled off of Adult Swim Comedy for this reason: It was no longer very comedic. Still, it was a great strategy, to attract in the audience with comedy and hook them with drama. And yes, Moral Orel DID get a sizable audience. To Daniel: While anime is not usually episodic, it IS very often disposable and merchandise-driven. Merchandise is where the lion's share of profits come from. You can't have $80 figurines or UFO catchers being common sights without the subject being merchandise-driven. There are more dramatic animated programs out there right now, both daytime and late-night, that are getting good ratings. I can think of Star Wars: The Clone Wars, The Spectacular Spider-Man, and Ben 10: Alien Force. Avatar: The Last Airbender and Danny Phantom have come to their ends so they don't count. (You can also argue that Codename: Kids Next Door also grew into a serial drama from its episodic comedy roots, but that, too, has aired its final episode.) American serial animated drama does exist on TV. You just need to know where to look. There should be another Answerfans column after this asking people if they prefer Japanese live-action or American live-action. The reason for this is because Japanese live-action TV is mostly news and cooking shows--that is, on the flip side of things, we do have many high quality live-action stuff for adults that the Japanese aren't doing. |
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Zin5ki
 Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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Although Monkey Dust and When the Wind Blows come to mind instantly, which other examples were you considering when you wrote this, out of interest? |
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Ryo Hazuki
Posts: 363 Location: Finland |
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I think American animation has more glorious past than Japanese but since the 60's the Japanese have made animation that interests me more.
It's pretty ironic that around the same time that American mainstream animation was deteriorating Japanese animation really was becoming much more than just an imitation of American cartoons, not to say there weren't some good Japanese cartoons made in the 50's and earlier and in my opinion the Japanese adapted better to low budgets than for example Filmation. |
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MonkeyFunk
Posts: 93 |
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The In Justice series Last edited by MonkeyFunk on Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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American Cartoons don't really seem to deal with too many nationalities outside of our own. Maybe the Brittish & our neighbors to the north & south. Anime also has a tendancy to focus on Japan, but because anime isn't just focused on children, it has the ability to deal with subjects not just for children and that also means including a more world-view on the inhabitants of the planet. Go back into the 90's and you will find that Japan Uber Alles attitude that's been ref'd about America & England. Blue Seed comes to mind for promoting that Japan is superior. In Steel Angel the USA bot was trashed pretty easily.
I really don't believe one can set out to conquor the world as Japan and Germany did without believing one is superior to the rest of the world. I know America wouldn't have made to where it did without a huge ego that it was a world leader. However, I do feel it's more a case anime uses European characters more than American cartoons do so they stand out. |
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LordRedhand
 Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
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Ummm I don't know what shows you've been watching but really the child subject vs. Adult subject is actually a very small gap as a child could watch (or even read in the case of books) a show and come out with experience A while an Adult would get experience B watching or reading the same work. So for example Ed, Edd, and Eddy can be seen as a story of life in suburbia and good fun (a) or as a commentary on Capitalism and Friendship and the wrong that evil and good intentioned people can do to the common man. (b) It's all a matter of perspective really. In some instance anime gets some where a child well won't like it would be the best way to put it as it's has more concepts that are harder to "digest" like say Paranoia Agent or Lain, not one that a child could grasp easily like other anime series like Pokemon or Naruto as examples. But American Adult animation is mostly focused on satire like The Simpsons or Futurama or The Venture Brothers, they are showing messages too, all it takes is one to listen. |
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ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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Okay well, I understand that you're not saying Canadians do hold some kind of resentment towards Britain but rather that some people might perceive it that way. It just seems like a really odd analogy to me. Regardless of the perspective I really don't know why it would be seen that way. Unless of course the person has actually misunderstood the facts of Canadian history which has really ceased to be an issue of perspective and is just them being incorrect.
My comment can hardly be called snarky when you don't snip out the rest of it where I explain my view.
Yeah but Mohawk's comment itself did appear to be directed at me. I was going to just leave it but then you agreed so I decided to address it. Again, the issue I take with it is that regardless of whether it's true, it is a lazy and abstract straw man criticism. All it contributes is a vague implication that the history as we know it is somehow wrong and thereby I am too. It never actually suggests any particular thing I've said is wrong or gives anything in particular to which I may offer a counter point. If there is any particular and relevant point which you or Mohawk feel I am incorrect about then by all means point it out. If you're just trying to generally say that things aren't black and white and some things are often forgotten then I've already made it clear I agree. As to the saying itself, I would agree it has some bit of truth to it. However, it's also vastly over dramatic. If you look at the actual event in question, yes the winners do influence how history is perceived by some. However, it's hardly to the extent where you can say they 'write history'. The extent to which they can reasonably influence things is fairly limited and it's merely some sources that are affected. |
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teh*darkness
 Posts: 901 |
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I agree on that last bit. I loved Family Guy... on Adult Swim. But then Fox brought it back, and McFarlane decided to go all extreme with it, and I lost interest about halfway through the first new season. Every episode became a series of flashbacks and side-story one-liners. And the actual plot of each episode was maybe 5-6 minutes. And the "political and religious" stuff is why I can't stand American Dad. I know it's supposed to be satire and mockery, but I just don't find it funny. Some of it can be, but it seems to me to be more demeaning of an entire branch of the US populace, rather than satirical of the barrel-bottom of the same branch. So trying to watch American Dad, for me, is like watching a show based around the worst stereotypes possible of my religious/political leanings, and therefore, quite difficult to swallow. Maybe if his next show did the same for Liberals/Democrats, I might feel bad about missing out on it.
I think with the advent of actual 3D technology, we need to differentiate between the two. CG animation != 3D animation. It gets kind of confusing when one person says 3D animation and is referring to the actual image technology, and someone else says 3D and is simply referring to the perceived depth of the 2D image. There is quite a difference. And it makes debates a little clearer.
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Ai no Kareshi
 Posts: 561 Location: South Africa |
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Good point. Well, I'm talking about stuff like Toy Story, Monsters Inc and Wall-E. That would be the CG crowd, right? I just can't put it in the same category as anime. It's about as different a concept to me as live action. Disregarding the CG backgrounds often used in anime, of course. I'm mostly concerned with character art here. |
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