Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! - Touchy Subjects
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Megiddo
 Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
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But you can buy a full bookcase's worth of yaoi.
And I think that's great. You do a great job for your hobby of choice. But that does not give you any permission whatsoever to deride yuri fans who have simply been not-as-fortunate as the yaoi fans have. What this amounts to is thinking that because you purchase a ton of product you can preach to others that do not have as much product available that the sole reason we're so short-changed is because we don't buy stuff. And that is just 100% false. It's because, even in Japan, there is very, very little yuri. In manga, anime, or hentai. There's just not that much of it, so in turn, there isn't much to bring to the States. Now that you understand, can you stop your ignorance in saying it's only because the yuri fans didn't support their hobby unlike yaoi fans? |
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agila61
 Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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I think the Answerman hit the nail on the whole yuri v yaoi thing, and the whole use of ANN forums to investigate the buying proclivities of different "fandoms" is a bit suspect ...
... when the simple explanation is that its a smaller and less coherent market, even in Japan, and if yaoi is over the threshold of being able to support print runs, its still a small microniche in the US, and a smaller microniche will struggle to cover costs. |
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Keichitsu0305
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When I went to Otakon 2010, I had a great time spoiler[despite that dam fire alarm] without worrying about raves, shouting memes (I will never understand them), or trying to get laid by some random cosplayer. spoiler[ I'm asexual anyways :/]
But I did cosplay as Mikoto from My-Hime ^^ I could go into exact detail as to what I did, but I'll just mention a few highlights. I watched the ANN panel "Dubs that time forgot" BTW (for the ANN staff) what was the name of the anime that took place in Silicon Valley where the main 'hero' bitch slapped the head of a thug?, viewed the "Anime Intro's & Closing Theme music" panel, and worked at a anime booth to get a DVD for $40 off. spoiler[ I also got Mr. Mignogna's Autograph (totally worth 4 hours :-D) but sadly not Mr. Jewell nor Mr. Haberkorn :-(] Basically, I think you can have fun at conventions without worrying about other people's experiences or the popular stuff and just go at your own pace. ...Now, onto the yuri/GL topic. Sadly, the only thing I purchased that has yuri in it is Maria Watches Over Us from Right Stuf.com. Honestly, I'm a yaoi fangirl but I also like yuri (if I can find any good ones; I'm a very picky person). I, personally, don't like ANY romantic anime/manga (regardless of gender) where it's only about sex (aka Hentai); I enjoy a well-developed story w/ memorable characters.
I wish Mr. Edward-sparkle-butt would just vanish!! >_< But it's true that most teen females (and my best male friend) are what keeps yaoi/BL anime/manga popular & in business. I agree with CCSYueh:
Ever since the dubbing of Gravitation, I never watch to hear a English dubbed yaoi/BL anime (again) or even some yuri/GL!! I can't ask for realism cause most yaoi/yuri/BL/GL anime/manga are made for entertainment purposes (i.e. giant robots in Kannazuki no Miko, etc.); not to paint a realistic portrayal of actual gay/lesbian couples. |
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LordByronius
ANN Columnist
 Posts: 861 Location: Philippe for America! He is five. |
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the hell? yes, yes. if a child hurts his or herself, make sure not to help the poor kid off the ground or anything, BECAUSE AMERICA'S BACKWARDS MORALS WOULD SEE YOU AS A SICK YUCKY PEDO. sometimes the self-victimization of the loli defenders reaches astoundingly weird new heights. |
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vashfanatic
 Posts: 3491 Location: Back stateside |
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Why are you putting words in my mouth???? When have I ever said that this was some conspiracy???? That this was even yaoi vs yuri??? You're the one whose making this into a competition between the two groups. I don't know where this anger is coming from. I never said a bad word against yaoi or BL fans, nor has anyone in this thread (until a few posts ago). Do you want me to pat ou on the back for buying 3500 volumes of mana over the year? Congratulations -- but I can't have bought that many volumes of yuri. Know why? Nowhere near that amount has been released in English!!! I have indeed purchased lots of manga I loved, but none of it has been yuri, because there are about a half a dozen true yuri titles to chose from in English and not a one is appealing to me. Not all yuri is the same (I think you said the same about yaoi/BL, if you recall), and save for a handful of one-shot arthouse releases, all of it is of the "schoolgirl lesbian" variety. As I said, some of those are fine, but buying them all won't lead to different kinds being brought over, just more of the same. Brian hit the nail on the head here: there's not conspiracy, there's just not an audience. Not because we're all ungrateful swine who never buy the (imaginary) copious amount of yuri that somehow floods onto the market every year, which seems to be your implication, but because there aren't that many of us. Even if all of us bought every awful semi-yuri series out there, it would be a drop in the bucket compared to yaoi or BL fans who are far pickier in what they buy. We are few, you are legion, that's why your stuff gets licensed and ours doesn't. You began this non-argument by saying "silly me," and you're right: your arguments are silly, and based on (as near as I can tell) a few random comments on message boards from which you extrapolate an entire demographic's supposed attitude. It's very, very silly. |
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wandering-dreamer
 Posts: 1733 |
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A little off-topic but can I ask, who is the author of Honey & Honey? It sounded interesting but I couldn't find it after a quick search (so I suppose my next question should be if it's avaliable in English). And I was actually happy to see some of the yuri lists here (but wouldn't most of that stuff be shojo-ai since there's no sex?) since it is harder to find. That being said I was sad to see that I have heard of most of them, I was hoping that I'd never heard of a few gems over the years. |
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Kyokat
Posts: 50 |
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BL fans do not have a number of titles stateside to choose from because they are "lucky." They have them because they buy them. Junjo actually cracked the NY Best Sellers. Show me a yuri title that's done as well. I don't think it has anything to do with age - Dark Horse does just fine cranking out seinen, thank you.
I've said it before on these forums and I'll say it again: until the day when it seems like the majority of fans asking for yuri are asking for it because they actually want the titles and not just because they want to see "equal" representation without expending any money or effor themselves, BL will continue to get licensed while yuri will continue to sit on the sidelines. Here's a rather famous post on the topic (though it's about comics and not manga) if anyone's interested in learning more about why most girls aren't especially concerned about boys and their yuri: http://cereta.livejournal.com/189901.html I'd also suggest considering the fact that the balance is not as unequal as it looks if you consider anime together with manga. Most adult manga titles are BL in the US, but far and away most adult DVD titles are het-for-guys/lesbian. Now, if you want to complain about a lack of josei (or het-for-girls) along with the lack of yuri, then I'm with you all the way. |
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Megiddo
Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
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Okay, let's roll with this. When you say het-for-guys/lesbian you mean that it features both hetersexual intercourse as well as lesbian correct? Well, that ain't yuri. As far as I know, there has been zero yuri hentai titles ever released in America. I think I only know of a handful of them that have even been made in Japan. Last edited by Megiddo on Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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TarsTarkas
 Posts: 5865 Location: Virginia, United States |
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I am going to have to call a foul on that one LordByronius. While purplepolecat may have been a little extreme on his statement, that statement has very little to do with anime, and much to do with American society as it is now. While I would not turn away from helping a child, the fear of misunderstandings and the possible reprecussions that would surely follow would color my thinking and my responses. A child who has fallen down and scrapped themselves can wait for a man to get a woman to help, while a child who is drowning would require immediate help irregardless of any fears. The reprecussions of any accusation of this sort would be life changing and irreversable. You are immediately guilty until proven innocent. If found innocent your life would not come back to normal. The accusation itself is judge, jury, and punishment. What about the man's family also, the man that doesn't take the proper risk assessment fails to protect himself and his family, who will also take society's wrath. We are told to take risk assessments for many things in our life and our jobs; this is just another thing for it and for peace of mind. You want to turn a blind eye to what is plain to many a man, go ahead and tempt fate, just don't belittle those that see the world for what it is. |
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Kyokat
Posts: 50 |
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What, in that the lesbians in hentai are a very certain kind of lesbian designed to appeal to men? Why, we should then also complain about how there're no gay titles, because BL only features a very certain kind of gay designed to appeal to women! Look, I don't care if you want more yuri. I'm all for people being able to read and write what they want. I only care that there seems to be an assumption that it is unfair that girls have their BL while guys are ever so woefully bereft and there is nothing they can do about it but whine on the internet. When we can have a yuri discussion without comparing it to BL, I will be happy. |
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darkchibi07
 Posts: 5475 |
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What's even more egregious is that the number of yuri titles before 2004 and after 2004, whether they're anime or manga, is flat out staggering. Seriously, there has been a small, steady stream of yuri made in Japan after 2004 than before ever since the epitome of Class S series Marimite became really popular to a point a lot of yuri titles nowadays pretty much used a lot of building blocks of tropes Marimite has established. I guess it peeves me it took Japan THIS long to realize that yuri has some marketable potential, and nowadays we have yuri manga titles scattered on other magazines and have like, I believe, 4 or 5 yuri-themed magazines. In other words, Japan has just freakin' STARTED on this and slowly carving a niche which I think it's safe to say it's going to be a mix of male and female audiences. |
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gingi789
 Posts: 56 |
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Oddly enough, i could never find any loli subtext in Gunslinger Girls. I mean, yes, they are middle school age (i think), but not every show that has middle school girls in it is loli-con fodder. And they do explain why they're so young.
(though i have to agree-a dojinshi with Henrietta and Jose getting it on? ..........ugh)
It might be naive. I won't sit here and say "most people have a computer....." because I'd probably be wrong. However, that being said, broadcast TV needs to do something differently. To be honest, i'm the same: my first foray into anime was the Tenchi Muyo-DBZ-Outlaw Star block of toonami. And i loved it. And then it seemed like the only time to watch would be really late at night-and the shows were either out of order, or would skip.....take Toonami's treatment of DBZ for example. They would get to the end of a major arc-and then give you repeats for 2 months or so. Or it would replace it with a different show.
Even though i like streaming, i agree. But the streaming quality has gotten a lot better....though i still prefer to watch it on DVD. Though most streaming sites, like Crunchyroll, and Hulu (unless you mean the commercials) don't have the anime shows divided into segments. And they offer full screen  . If you mean youtube.....well, that's what you're going to get with youtube. Though i think a lot of the series on youtube you can find streaming on other sites as well.
Though, i have to say, i'm kinda nervous that anime liscensors will scale back the amount of shows that they release on DVD. My tastes are a bit eclectic. An example; Funimation liscensed Baka to Test a few months back-and put it on their streaming site. That's cool-except i like having a hard copy too . (besides, most distributors-Bandai, Sentai, Anime Works, etc-still release really cool artboxes and extras with the series)
As for conventions.....i'm 25. I realize this might be ancient here, but I went to AX this year, and honestly had no time to notice anyone bouncing off the walls. (though the vuvuzelas were really, really, really, really, really, really, really annoying) There were enough panels and guests for me to see and try to get autographs from that I felt it was a really fun weekend. (and i'm sorry i missed the ANN panel-i wanted to go) It was actually the first convention where i did more than wander the exhibition hall. And i had a lot of fun. Of course....we had a convention where i live (Ikki-con) where there was a lot more people seemingly bouncing off the walls, but none of them were being destructive, or roughhousing. (maybe i'm just going to the wrong cons )
It's kind of funny-because at some point it's going to look like the older conventioneers are going to be like the guy saying "you young whippersnappers! Get off my lawn!" And besides, we were all young once, weren't we? Bringing this full circle....I'm suprised when people mention loli-con that they don't mention "Ultimate Girls". spoiler[A series where middle school (or elementary school) girls have to grab what is essentially a giant phallus, have something liquid shoot on them, and then transform into giants.....and then they fight monsters (who conveniately have tentacles)-only their clothes disappear as they fight.] That sounds just a teensy bit more loli to me. Gunslinger girls..........not so much. Last edited by gingi789 on Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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vashfanatic
Posts: 3491 Location: Back stateside |
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It's written by Takeuchi Sachiko, and sadly it is only available via online scans.  Most of the good yuri out there is only available via online scans. As someone who hates reading on her computer, I wish this would get English releases.
Shoujo-ai is an American term, in Japan it's all yuri, from the BFF schoolgirls to the hardcore pornography. I tend to prefer stuff in between; I don't mind if there's sex, just so long as it's not the point of the work.
Which could be due to having a small fanbase, not just leaching. You're assuming that there is a large yuri audience and we just haven't bought anything, as opposed to there being a small yuri audience to begin with. I repeat: all of us could buy every title, and we wouldn't make a dent, because we aren't that numerous.
Yeah, basically you're just repeating CCSYueh's claims about yuri fans. I don't care about equal representation; I will buy the series should they become available. But they are not, because the audience is small enough no one thinks that they will sell enough, and perhaps they are right. We are few, yaoi fans are legion.
I'm not a dude. Some of the people who wants yuri titles licensed are women, some of them are straight women, some just like the damn titles.
Which brings me back to what I keep repeating: not all yuri is the same. The titles I want to buy the most, the titles which not enough people want to make companies feel obliged to buy them, are not the pornographic titles for guys. And yes, I will also complain about the lack of smutty romance josei, but also acknowledge that, along with my mature yuri series, publishers do not believe there is an audience for them and do not provide titles for anyone to buy, ergo ensuring that their initial claim is confirmed. WE CANNOT BUY TITLES IF NONE ARE AVAILABLE TO BUY!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Megiddo
Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
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Would like you yaoi if it featured 10 male/female sex acts for every one male/male sex act? |
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RestLessone
 Posts: 1426 Location: New York |
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I already know our group is small, but we aren't asking for what's currently on the market. All I ever see is the schoolgirl romances which, to be honest, aren't GL in a romantic or realistic way. Many of them are for pandering or depict it as a phase. Other than that, there are a handful--or maybe a bucketful, I don't really know--of pornographic titles. I'm asking for a series that depicts relationships with taste and realism, and I'm under the impression the others would like that as well. The titles I'm looking for do not necessarily have to be sexual, either. When I look at what is available in Japan, there're not many series that truthfully show a romance. Then we get almost none of that over here. The few titles that do seem to go by relatively unnoticed; I never actually here an announcement for them, though who knows when the last was actually brought over. I'm not saying we would be able to create some good sales alone. However, I'm not buying because I have no interest in these false GL series. We haven't had much of a chance to show our support because there is barely anything we can use.
I'm not a guy, though. I'm a straight female interested in a deep romance between two people who must face society's hurdles. We were discussing the licensing of series that don't pander and throw in random sex scenes, but truly observe a romance between two females. We weren't complaining that so much BL is brought over--we understand why it is--but we don't like how few GL titles there are. Also...These types of stories don't hold appeal to just males. They're the type that can attract a wide variety of people if they look past their initial reaction of "Oh, two girls, must be for guys". |
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