Forum - View topicNEWS: Manga Aggregator Site Hosts Removed Scans Again
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Kyaa the Catlord
Posts: 300 |
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The final, and only, solution is for the manga companies to pony up and do it better than the pirates. Unfortunately, so far the industry is failing. Now if they used their "coalition" to build a one-stop-shop like Mangafox but official, high res and current to Japan with an unlimited back catalogue... we'd have news. But for now, we can only dream. |
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Charred Knight
 Posts: 3085 |
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Not feasible, the pirating companies are making a fraction of what the American companies, but where as American companies have to deal with licenses, and paying the Japanese money the Pirates are operating on nearly pure profit. |
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Kyaa the Catlord
Posts: 300 |
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And since its so impossible, nothing is resolved and the industry continues tilting windmills. Meanwhile, the pirates laugh all the way to the bank. |
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Sunday Silence
 Posts: 2047 |
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Guess then i'll spend my money on Pizza then. At least THEY deliver......and with a Guarantee!! |
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Charred Knight
Posts: 3085 |
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and you wonder why we laughed at the idea of you ever supporting manga.
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Guardsman Bass
 Posts: 158 |
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The same things were said about iTunes and streaming services versus pirated music. True, the pirates can operate on a fraction of the cost, but a legal provider can offer several things: 1)They may be able to offer it faster than the pirates, if they do a simultaneous release. That alone would kill off a bunch of the aggregator sites. 2)They can offer reliability of release. The big series with multiple scanlation groups (like Naruto) get most of the attention, but there are a whole bunch of smaller series where issues with "bottlenecking" are a major problem for fans trying to follow the series. Think about the long period when Liar Game didn't have people able and willing to do the translation and scanlation, so the raw chapters were piling up over at Mangahelpers. |
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agila61
 Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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And they are entitled to either create or increase the difference in reliability of release by taking legal action against those sites that serve bootlegs and trample the rights of the creators of the work. Its not a simple problem, so no one tactic or strategy will suffice. However, in the mix will be: (1) For the highest profile, highest traffic titles, professional translators get art and text in proof stage, to be able to finish professional translated overlays within a short time window of Japanese release. 2) For the mid-range titles, professionally translated overlays for finished work available with a week or two delay, on a regular release schedule. 3) For marginal and fringe titles, communities networking sites making member contributed overlays available to community subscribers, with the right to release the overlays as "permitted volunteer-contributed translations". The leg plays a dual role of expanding the variety of content available, and since volunteer contributors must affirm that they do not engage in copyright piracy of that or any other work, drain the supply of scanlation translators. 4) One or more legit aggregators, that provides a wide variety of legit content via a range of ad-supported, pay per view, pay to own, and subscriber options. 5) Legal pursuit of the open and brazen copyright piracy, to force it back into the shadow, reduce the reliability of bootleg release channels, and push the legit content to the top of internet search engines. |
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Guardsman Bass
Posts: 158 |
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Sounds okay, as long as "short" is the key word.
More than a week would be risky in some of the borderline titles (like Mahou Sensei Negima, which had a bottleneck issue in terms of translation for a long time). If it's any consolation, it's not just the manga/anime business that's suffering with the "shrinking window" problem. The same thing is happening to the film industry in the US.
Subscribers presumably would get access to back chapters, as well possibly the chapter earlier on (Crunchyroll does this with anime). Free viewers would basically get the most current chapter, plus maybe the previous 3-4. I wonder if you could keep your translation costs down by buying off some of the existing translation/scanlation groups for cheap. I doubt they're making much in the way of money right now (although some of the aggregator sites were), and it wouldn't be the first time that pirates went legit. |
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agila61
Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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The way Yen Plus Online does it is that subscribers get access at all, for a two month window, but for that to work on its own (Yen Plus has always been a marketing strategy for the volumes), you need a real wide selection. The "comfort zone" pitch to Japanese publishers would be "the international subscription access is like an electronic copy of a manga serial, except without the page limits imposed by publishing costs". Two questions are whether operating within that comfort zone is (1) viable or (2) ideal. I don't think its ideal, but if its viable, it might be a way to get the ball rolling and then work toward something more ideal. So: (1) Ad-supported, rolling access chapters, subscribers get ad-free access, and at a minimum a longer access window ~ preferably the full chapter list. (for publishers leery of ongoing full access to a deep chapter list, there may be a middle ground, like rotating "catch-up" special events with a volume of chapters released each week, & each volume up for 30 days) (2) $1 ($0.50, whatever the price point is) rent to view chapters, subscribers get a rolling window access to chapters on release. (3) For the subscriber-supported member-contributed translation overlay site(s), members of those sites get to contribute overlays, get access to the overlays as they are contributed, get to vote on their favorite versions and discuss them and etc. and etc. ~ all the stuff that a crowdsource community site runs on ... For that material, subscribers to the aggregator get access to the chapters with author-approved overlays. For (1) and (2), its a matter of access deals to the digital content rights owners. (3) is the one that requires establishing a new infrastructure, but its also the one that could have the biggest impact in reducing the range of material available on the bootleg sites, by wooing translators into a system where they are providing a direct material benefit to the creators and where they do not have to worry about getting the RAWs or any of the technical details and can just focus on the translation. And for the aggregator, it allows the aggregator to offer a broad tent of content in a broad range of genres, which is a principle weakness of many of the legit offerings from the print publishers. So if that kind of member-contributed translation site does not get rolling on its own, it might be worthwhile for a site that aspires to be a legit aggregator site to try to launch the member-contributed translation site as a premium area, so its a three-tier freemium model: (1) Free ad-supported chapters, with the option to extend with per chapter rentals (2) A base subscription, with expanded access as above (3) A premium workshop subscription, which is the member contributed arm of the site. Keeping a clear distinction between the professionally translated work and the volunteer-contributed overlays, the rewards to the translators that generate the most income to the creators of the original work would be along the lines of earning free subscriptions for themselves and earning free passes that they can hand out to friends, with monthly "gold, silver and bronze medal" winners in terms of income generated to their favorite artist (by genre) being prizes like original art signed by the artist and such.w |
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Guardsman Bass
Posts: 158 |
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Sounds good, for the most part.
I'm skeptical that you'll see any large sum of money coming from per-chapter purchases. They've tried that with books and newspaper articles (in terms of per-chapter and per-article purchases), and it doesn't seem to do well. The rest of it, though, sounds good, particularly the ability of subscribers to get access to the latest chapters*, and access to some of the backlist**. * My concern has largely been time-of-release. If the legit chapter can't beat the fan-scan, then the whole thing will be for naught. **I personally don't tend to re-read chapters, but I can see the appeal to people who do.
I thought something like that might be going on - that the Japanese rights-holders are wedded to the paperback model. |
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Sunday Silence
Posts: 2047 |
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So, all those companies that make manga are doing it for what, shits and giggles? Cause I thought they were in it to make money? Simple concept; I have money. If the companies don't want to/can't offer me the service/goods that I am satisfied with, I take my money elsewhere. It's called consumerism. Sure I can lodge a complaint, but then again, very rarely do some companies take you seriously. |
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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Why not go check out the Manga forum?
Looks like VIZ and Digital manga just made major digital announcements. Stuff takes time, but things have been moving a lot faster since the coalition formed. Enjoy and support what's here and what's coming soon rather then complaining about what's not. Appreciate what's given to you, ask politely for what isn't, and be patient when it doesn't appear instantly. Japan's not opposed to digital- there's lots of legit digital rental/purchase services in Japan, and CellPhone manga is a big market, which is why NTTSolmare's moved into that. They're just cautious of the current Apple Ipad stuff due to content issues, and cautious of the international market due to piracy issues. Not every artist will authorize their works for digital, but some have, and if you want a legit market to grow, support those who do. |
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Sunday Silence
Posts: 2047 |
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They had years to nip the problem in the butt, and only recently they figured it out that "herp derp, we're loosing money, let's do something about it!!" They had advance warning, and they didn't bother to act.
So, why can't I got to Amazon or B&N or Borders and download the latest chapter (not the current USA release point BTW) of Naruto or Bleach to my e-reader? That kinda shows to me that Japan is opposed to Digital. |
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Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10430 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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Although I don't particularly like Kyaa, I sadly have to agree with him (I'm not sad that I have to agree with him, but rather what I have to agree about). The anime & manga industries face the exact same challenge. They need to learn how to compete with free. They need to figure out how to make it feasible. Explaining to consumers why it is so hard to compete with MangaFoX won't change the fact that MangaFox is there and consumers are downloading free manga scans from that site instead of some monetizable source. While I do hope someone does manage to shut down MangaFox, a replacement will pop-up. The industry needs to figure out a way to make their offering more compelling. Of course, as fans, we need to understand that this will take time, and we should be as supportive of the industry (and therefore the creators) as we can in the meantime. But in the meantime companies will shut down, and people will lose their jobs. -t |
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Fellistowe
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You know, I was just sitting here thinking "how do you compete with free!?" Just stepping back from it all and looking from a business viewpoint it all sounds completely suicidal, especially when the free product is of almost comparable quality. It's an impossible problem, and I'm actually kind of amazed the industry has survived this long :/ So it occured to me to shift my viewpoint slightly, and instead ask the question as "what level of product do I have to supply to make the scanlators/fansubbers stop?". That question is probably more answerable, since ultimately you're not competing with free then, just looking for a laziness threshold instead 
I'm probably just stating the obvious there, but it may be a lot of people keep looking at the problem the wrong way too...
Sad to say it, but I still keep on feeling in some ways it all needs to come tumbling down, just so we can hit some kind of big 'reset' button. Maybe small independent publishers and doujinshi artists running on shoestring budgets is the way; I've certainly been following the reports on Shuho Sato with interest, but unless I'm reading the numbers wrong even he can't generate the kind of income necessary to equal what his team gets from the big magazine publishers, let alone balance his books. Got to hope it all works out for the best I suppose... |
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