Forum - View topicCross Ange: Rondo of Angels and Dragons (TV).
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Vaisaga
 Posts: 13230 |
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One that doesn't particularly care about high survival rates. |
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15505 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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But it was not a day of training, I thought that it was implied that she was showing spoiler[strength in things from combat riding, to physical prowess, to war theory], something that would probably take a while to get a good handle if she was. |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23858 |
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You are correct, DP. Sadly, HaruhiToy is a sloppy, poopy-head viewer who smells bad and cheats on his taxes.
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Cptn_Taylor
Posts: 925 |
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Normas are treated like objects. To use as you please and dispose of them as you wish. Do you care for the well being of an object ? No. There's no reason to, and since the supply of normas is neverending no problem sending them into battle. I just can't get around how shit of a character Ange really is. If there is to be somekind of redemption in this story it better be long and hard. |
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DuskyPredator
Posts: 15505 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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Giggity |
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HaruhiToy
 Posts: 4118 |
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Well that ended up in the gutter really fast. Personally I think it was good that they stretched Ange's stage of denial out over at least two episodes. Less than that would have felt really unconvincing, and everyone here would have been posting about things being "rushed." Also, who will not admit to liking the scene that starts out "Royalty doesn't take orders from ..." and then she ends up naked in the hallway for a behavior (if not attitude) change. Whether it was one day or a narrative time skip the so-called training was rushed. But they had to set up some sort of impetus for Ange to finally realize shit is real, her actions have consequences, and Norma isn't just things after all. And it was time for that to happen and that was the method they chose and that was the setting they needed. |
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walw6pK4Alo
 Posts: 9322 |
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I think they'd be concerned about the cost of military equipment they're losing. Human lives are cheap, vehicles are not. |
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leatherhead333
 Posts: 1187 Location: Kansas |
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I wouldn't have called it rushed. Especially if they just keep raping her every episode since she isn't conforming (seems like it's going to happen next episode too). I don't have a problem with the bad things that have happened to Ange since they are reasonable within internal logic. But when these things have NO prevalence to the development of the character is it really necessary to put it in the story? Let's think about this for a second. Ange went through a pretty horrible experience. Witnessed her mother die in front of her, found out she's the very thing she's hated for so long and got fisted in the ass. An experience like that would break most people. Yet at the beginning of this episode she is back to her old bitchy self. She was not traumatized by what happened to her. So in the grand scheme of things why is it necessary to have her raped if said sexual assault isn't going to be taken in a serious matter? People don't just walk that shit off. It's something that can torment a person their entire lives. Yet I'm supposed to believe she's unfazed by all of this sexual assaulting/beatings being done to her? Calling BS on that I'm afraid. I can make a story about killing but that doesn't mean it's usage holds any contextual value if it isn't treated properly. I see Ange's stubbornness being dragged out as a way to drag out the lesbian fanservice not something that's actually supposed to make her realize how screwed up her head has been this whole time. I do think she needs to be smacked around a bit but with almost nothing that's happened to her so far having an effect it feels rather unnatural to me personally. |
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HaruhiToy
Posts: 4118 |
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Ange wasn't raped. Not last episode not this one. First episode she was stripped and roughed up by an admittedly sadistic and perverted minded prison maven and what happened to her hurt (maybe a lot) but didn't involve sexual penetration in either orifice. This episode she was going to be spoiler[yuri raped but was saved by the bell.] Your entire premise is based on false impressions. And Blood- calls me a sloppy viewer. Jeez. Anyway it is perfectly believable she could still stand up and push back against the experiences she has had so far. At this point it is the single redeeming personality trait she has even though a big part of it involves massive denial about her present situation. I am actually rooting for her because of course we all have seen this story before in one form or another and we know where it is going. |
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leatherhead333
Posts: 1187 Location: Kansas |
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Haruhi are being serious with this? Rape is the act of sexual assault/penetration without consent of the victim. She had someones hand forcefully stuck inside of her. That is indeed rape.
Assaulting someone against their will is also rape. If you want to be technical about it when it's two girls it would probably only count as sexual assault. But honestly not calling what the other girl was doing to her rape is stretching things. Just because it's two women doesn't mean you can sexual assault someone and say "oh it ain't rape if there is no penetration!". Jesus..... But that aside do you remember her status after the first episode? She was in the fettle position truly shocked by everything that had just happened to her. That response is entirely reasonable. But I guess the writers forgot what happened in the first episode as she still retains her feeble pride as if she never went through anything. Such good development that is eh? I guess they can just keep assaulting her since she'll never learn her lesson unless she's given a good traumatic experience every damn episode. This is horrible development only for the fact it's just exploitation of assault for fanserivce not an understandable way someone would change their views on something. And why the hell would her denial be a GOOD thing about her? The fact she is denying that the people around her are ACTUALLY people isn't a good thing. It's understandable given her background but not a redeemable trait of her personality. She is unwilling to understand why anyone around her while flaunting her superiority over them as they were mere pigs. I'm pretty damn sure that's the reason people hate her character bro. |
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Bugnin
Posts: 575 |
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At the risk of taking this too seriously, by your definition every cavity search ever performed is technically rape.
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Vaisaga
Posts: 13230 |
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Perhaps I'm interpreting your comments wrong but it sounds like you're treating rape and sexual assault as two different things. They are the same, although the word "rape" isn't used in official contexts anymore. If we're going to be mature about this, we really should be using "sexual assault" instead. In regards to episode 1, no, it wasn't sexual assault. As Bugnin said, that means cops sexually assault criminals all the time when searching for contraband up their rears. In the first place, the anus is not a sex organ, even if it's often used as such. Ange's state and the end of episode one doesn't contradict her attitude in episode two. She obviously pulled herself together and it's not like she became super obediant. Of course she'd resent what was done to her and as such she's acting all difficult and defiant. In the first place, there's no "right" way to respond to such trauma. Everyone is different. Her denial and other aspects of her attitude doesn't make her a good person but it does make her a good character. She's handling the situation in a pretty believable manner and it leaves her open for plenty of growth in the future. |
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leatherhead333
Posts: 1187 Location: Kansas |
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It's quite obvious to see the difference in such a situation.
Ange was forced into this position. She did nothing that we as the audience anyway have seen to warrant it. If a prisoner is brought is subject to a cavity search he/she has done something to allow such a thing to happen. Now yes the ladies doing the search were merely following protocol but that does not change that it was forced on an innocent person without consent which would still make it rape in my opinion..............god saying rape so much makes me feel so weird....... Besides I'm pretty sure cavity searches have been protested HIGHLY due to the fact it's highly deeming and not a fool proof way to search for such things when there lies the possibility of any illegal substances being out of reach. |
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leatherhead333
Posts: 1187 Location: Kansas |
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[quote="Vaisaga"]
But nothing about her attitude has changed...........AT ALL. Given what has happened to her it is incredibly hard for me to believe that she hasn't developed in any significant fashion. Whatever pull the "people are different" line again. However, I'm simply judging her behavior by what I've been shown on watching the screen. This show is obviously appealing to some lesbian assault fetish fuel with this setting. So having a character who will continue to talk shit against her oppressors so they can continue to violate her sounds like a good setup for such a thing. That's what makes her a bad character. Because the dragging out of her development is not contextually accurate in my opinion. Making her stay like this for so long gives her more time to be violated I suppose but a character developing through such means over a long period is just plain trashy. Nobody said she didn't have to be resentful but the complete "reset" of how the first episode ended was horribly depicted of a person who went through such a thing which makes most of what happened to her in this lesbian prison before and now rather pointless. |
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Vaisaga
Posts: 13230 |
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That's exactly what happened. However you may view it by our world's standards, it was entirely justified in-universe. It was a warden dealing with an unruley prisoner.
It's only been two episodes. And if it was supposed to be some sort of fetish fuel, then it wouldn't have been portrayed as something bad, which is how both cases with Ange were handled. This is even more apparent since it's juxtaposed next to scenes of consentual lesbian shenanigans. So how should Ange have been in episode two? Because to me defiance + something bad happening = more defiance is perfectly logical to me. |
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