Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Yūki Yūna wa Yūsha de Aru
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everydaygamer
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This is pretty much a no win situation. Either the world ends or they continue to be sacrificed. I don't care how they do it, I just want a happy ending.
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Gewürtztraminer
 Posts: 1028 Location: Texas - Its like whole other country. |
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I thought Togo herself stated that it was not pain and suffering driving what she was doing, but spoiler[She could not bear the thought of any member of the Hero club losing the memories they had shared]. Better for all to die with them intact than end up a log with nothing .
Wasn't the episode title Passion? I thought that emotion fit every characters action in the episode. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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The girls were brave to face the prospect of dying, but they rightly feel cheated at not being told about how they would suffer a fate worse than death. They didn't know about the hidden clauses in the spiritual contract, the extra sacrifices they would have to make. There was no informed consent. Therefore, expecting the girls to be content with society's praise even as that very society throws them to the wolves is unfair and unreasonable. I can actually see what Togo is saying. Shinju - i.e. society - has betrayed them, treated them not as people or even heroes but as mere tools that get replaced when they are worn out. What do the girls owe society? Nothing, that's what. It's not betrayal because you can't betray something that has already betrayed you. And if they're going to suffer a fate worse than death anyway then dying and ending the cycle of suffering is a better outcome. Add to that the fact that the universe has already died and only exists because of a spiritual shield, and it's easy to see it as not a home but a purgatory (I'm getting flashbacks of Zegapain here). And as we all know, death is better than purgatory. There is a saying "as long as there's life there's hope". But Togo has seen the outside of the universe, and she knows that it has effectively died, only continuing to exist because of a shield that prevents its complete destruction. So if there's no life in the first place (because everyone is in purgatory, just a really nice one), then how can hope exist? It is a philosophical question that doesn't have a correct answer, and therefore it is easy to get lost in despair. I'm not saying I agree with Togo; I'm a fighter and I would only go down kicking and screaming. Just because it is purgatory, just because the cycle of sacrificing girls must continue for goodness only knows how many more centuries, it doesn't mean that someone at some point won't eventually find a proper way to save the universe. But I can understand Togo's reasoning and I do believe that her logic is internally consistent with her ideals and what she knows. No doubt Yuki is going to change her mind, but I don't think Togo is being foolish right now. |
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mangamuscle
Posts: 2658 Location: Mexico |
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Stop right there with the false equivalences. The shinju is NOT society. The taisha is NOT society. Society is the bunch of people (just like the Hero club was) unaware they are literally the last island still populated by humans and living their lives the best they can. You also fail to understand that a Hero does not act out of desire to be acknowledged, that is a what poser would do. The reason for a hero actions IS the common good. Give heroes the option of being acknowledged of something they did not do and doing the greater good unknown to most, their choice will always be the second., That is the hero club choice, they have always known that their deeds will be unknown to society (even if the Taisha reveres them and the amorphous Shinju considers them worthy). They were betrayed and used by the Taisha, but that does not change the fact that their fight is worthy and their actions entail the common good (for mankind as we know it). In the end Togo's action are powered by a desire to not suffer anymore, she did not asked for her comrades input and has already blasted two of them (yeah, you will be better once I destroy the Shinju, you lose your powerup and are therefore devoured by the vertex) to achieve her goal, it is egoism at its worst (even if she does not think that). |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18226 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Interesting discussion points, particularly the one about how the episode title is applied here. Clearly I need to consider Mimori's behavior a bit more. Think I'll rewatch the episode next week, right before the final episode streams. (Yes, Christmas is a dead day for me this year since my family's holiday stuff is all going to be on the 26th instead.) If I change my mind on what I said in the review based on the rewatch, I'll be sure to note that in the final review.
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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You're missing the point. Shinju is revered as a god - which it kind of is - and its minions the taisha are obviously very powerful politically if not outright runs the entire place. So there's no false equivalence if it is compared to society, because they basically are. For example, if the government betrays you then it is no stretch at all to equivocate that with your entire country betraying you. You also overlook the fact that even Togo's own parents kept the truth from her. She's been betrayed by her family, her doctors, her teachers, and the government. The only people who haven't betrayed her are her friends, which is why she wants to "save" them.
That's not what I said. In fact it's the opposite. I didn't say they wanted to be acknowledged, I said what they wanted above all else was informed consent so that they knew what it was that they were getting into. Don't put words in my mouth, troll.
She only blasted her friends because they were in the way of her "saving" them. Under her logic hurting them is bad but letting them suffer forever is infinitely worse. |
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Gattix
Posts: 36 |
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It also flies completely in the face of her being so big on nationalism (something rather essential for the latest episode, in my eyes), at least superficially, which the show then just somewhat deconstructs. Going to war for your country isn’t all that nice and flowers. But if you rewatch the first episodes, you’ll notice that Tougou was actually the most cautious one from the beginning, she already doesn’t want her friends to fight and risk their lives with little regard as to what would happen to the world due to that as early as episode one, way before the mankai revelation. Her idea of nationalism comes from the idea that it protects her friends, so she is completely fine with choosing her friends over the world in the end. It does make a lot of sense, the thought of your health reducing your quality of life so heavily is so frightening to a lot of people that they choose euthanasia even while they’re still arguably rather healthy. Being forced to mankai over and over again is a lot worse than most if not all disabilities in reality on top of that, and they aren’t even allowed to commit suicide when their body has essentially become a living log. It’s now or never. I don’t know if I had made the same decision as Tougou, but I would have seriously considered it. (And Tougou already did try to off herself, multiple times) |
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mangamuscle
Posts: 2658 Location: Mexico |
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Again, false equivalncies all over the place. No matter how powerful the Taisha is, they are NOT society (unless of course, each and every human being is a member of the Taisha, which is outright ridiculous thinking that only these five girls were out of the loop). Without much thinking I can say my actual government has betrayed me, but that does not mean I think society as a whole has done that, that would be preposterous to say the least. AFAIK togo's parents betrayed her, dunno about her whole family (aunts, uncles, cousins, etc). Her doctors did no wrong, the ones telling them they would get fine were the taisha (no doctor will tell you you will get ok without good reason, since you can always ask for a second or third opinion). Her teachers and the goverment are out of the loop, remember the taisha discloses their secrets in a need to know basis, why should they tell everybody when they do not tell their own heroes?
This is what you said, name calling is boring as an argument.
Take that "logic" only a step forward and she could have killed them all (while depowered) before goint against the Taisha, since she would be saving them. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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I just don't even know where to start with you. Okay. I explicitly said that the girls didn't want to be praised and worshipped by the taisha, that if given the choice they would rather have had informed consent instead. How you got from there to this baffling notion that I believe that heroes should always be praised I have no bloody clue. |
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kotomikun
Posts: 1205 |
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This doesn't really have anything to do with desire to be acknowledged or the common good; the show has never really focused on either of those things. Not sure how we ended up in an argument about that.
At this point in the game, what the heroes have discovered is that they aren't really heroes at all; they're just pawns in a secret, desperate scheme to keep humanity around, and have effectively already been sacrificed against their will to a "fate worse than death." Togo decided that this unstable world can't last forever anyway, and is making an equally desperate attempt to at least prevent herself and her friends from becoming trapped in lifeless meatsacks. Sure, it sucks that all the innocent civilians have to die, but if they didn't, lots of them would probably be recruited to the hero program and end up even worse off... and eventually the Vertexes will win anyway, because they're immortal and attack continuously. It seems unlikely that ultra-suicide will really be the finale's "solution" to their plight, but I can't really blame her for not seeing a better option because I can't think of one either. Karin tried to be a badass hero despite their circumstances and we all saw how that turned out. Yuna had better have a good plan to deal with all this if we don't want a very depressing ending. On a lighter note: anyone else notice the secret things in the OP? spoiler[Besides the Mankai gauges, the horrid hellsphere of the Earth appears at least twice. The weird yellow-and-red thing in the very beginning is a closeup of the last refuge of humanity (as seen in episode 10). And that big red fireball you probably assumed was the Sun? That's... that's not the Sun, is it? Oh dear...] |
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ChibiKangaroo
 Posts: 2941 |
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Anyone who thinks that it is better to destroy the entire world than let her friends suffer is clearly insane and making poor decisions. It's one thing to say we can sympathize with her emotional suffering, but "I don't want my four friends to suffer anymore so I will kill millions!!!" is simply not a rational thought process and it is clearly the absolute worst decision possible. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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As I pointed out she considers their deaths to be a release, and under warped but internally consistent logic she has a point. If I re-word the quote: I don't want my four friends to suffer anymore so I will kill them. There, that's more accurate. |
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ChibiKangaroo
Posts: 2941 |
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Well, it seems like "them" means everyone still alive. So, still not rational or correct decision making. |
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Blanchimont
 Posts: 3459 Location: Finland |
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Only today found out this has the same creator as Akame ga Kill. That...explains a lot.
Been following up to a few episodes back, but will wait for next week's episode and conclusion to decide whether to undrop... |
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natchu96
Posts: 189 |
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Well, if she just murders her friends and leaves it at that then the Taisha will just find some other girls to screw over right? It'll never stop until the belated apocalypse finally kicks in. |
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