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Answerman - Why Doesn't Yaoi Anime Get Dubbed?

Yeah, no, I somehow can't see any of that. At the beginning - maybe, but in general, no. I'm not saying the first impressions don't remind me of typical BL - they do, but that's why YOI is subversive - it starts off with the typical stuff we know and then flips it on its head. Also I cringe every time someone even as much as implies that Victor is the typical seme and Yuuri is the typical uke. Uke are pretty much 99% girls with a different set of genitals and that certainly can't be said about Yuuri. I'm not saying that Yuuri isn't less confident and in general less out there than Victor (although that shifts considerably later on), but that's not because he's the girl of the relationship but because of his anxiety. And Victor "I used to have really long hair and skated in a costume that suggested both male and female genders" Nikiforov is often coded in feminine ways as well. I'd say they end up equally masculine and feminine in the end, therefore not falling into the "seme-uke" stereotype. The illustration of that is actually the pair skate - in which they switch from male to female roles throughout the routine.

Victor's comments are ambiguous? How? How in denial must one be to consider that "ambiguous"? I know that some people prefer to shrug it off as a joke but there's no reason for it to be one and it's very clearly a denial tactic rather than an actual argument since it makes no sense in the context. In fact I'd say that claiming that Victor and Yuuri's relationship is only "implied" is more of a joke. I'll always point to the rings and to Victor's lines regarding them - that's great evidence, it's not my problem if someone wants to deny it. Apart from that there's my favorite scene - the airport scene which is a great depiction of their relationship. That's not how friends act, that's not how a coach and a skater acts - that's how a couple acts. No one can tell me otherwise.

And nah, I'd say my main argument is that: It's not officially labeled as BL so it's not BL, and you can't really argue with that. And it doesn't have the features that define a BL series so I think it's fair to say that it's not a BL series. Huge surprise here but gay relationship =/= BL.

I'm not saying it couldn't have been a BL or that it couldn't have been marketed as a BL - of course it could have, and it could have been done quite easily, just as you mentioned. But it's the fact that it was marketed as a sports anime with a gay romance on the side that makes the whole difference. It's the first of its genre that wasn't afraid to go that far, despite not officially being BL. It's what gives me hope, as a gay individual, that maybe we'll get more well-written gay relationships in non-BL anime which I would so desperately love to see? Especially in such well-made, popular anime? That's why it NOT being BL matters.

Maybe, you know, from the actual definition of BL? "Japanese genre of fictional media focusing on romantic or sexual relationships between male characters". In that case, calling yoi a BL does make it less of a sports anime because it implies that it focuses on the romance and not on the sport, which is just not true.

"Boy's Love (BL) is the usual term used by the Japanese publishing industry to categorize commercial works focusing on male/male relationships marketed at women. These now include not only manga but novels, CDs, games, and anime."

Except that yoi isn't called a BL. The only people calling it a BL are you guys - officially the anime is labeled sports and nothing more. So no, it's not "the truth", it's just you forcing your opinions on others. And no, of course they didn't write it with LGBT people in mind, but that doesn't mean that they couldn't present the gay relationship well and respectfully anyway? Which they did do, so what does the target demographic matter?

Well, no, the reason it brings negative connotations is because most BL works present some from of rape, dub-con or otherwise questionable sexual behavior as well as painful heteronormativity. I can't think of any of these as positive things and they are related to neither of the reasons you mentioned.

Of course the relationship was deliberately done to be vague, those things don't happen "accidentally" but that doesn't make it bait? Bait means that the relationships is at some point denied, which it never was. And no, not every interview. She's also said that the engagement rings are proof that Victor and Yuuri are soulmates (that's her actual wording) and that they had to rethink their plans for the future because Victor and Yuuri can't live without each other. Intentions aside, I think it's past the territory of baiting? And funnily enough, in the commentary for the volume 4 of the DVDs Kubo and a few of the seiyuu are commenting on ep 7 and on their roles live and when the kiss scene comes up, one of them goes "congratulations on your marriage", and Kubo just calmly corrects "not yet, that's still in the future". If that's "bait" then we don't need non-bait.

Well, no, the reason it brings negative connotations is because most BL works present some from of rape, dub-con or otherwise questionable sexual behavior as well as painful heteronormativity. I can't think of any of these as positive things and they are related to neither of the reasons you mentioned.

It matters because I dislike giving creators credit where it's not due. Don't praise creators for things they have not done or never intended. Especially not Kubo who has made homophobic comments in the past.

You do realize that lots of creators say this? That lots of seiyuu's, many who have dedicated fangirls themselves, like to tease about these things? The point is, Kubo/Yamamoto did not confirm the relationship. They left it ambiguous, which is only slightly better than outright denying it, and IMO not worthy of praise.

Oh this is a classic, If you're still not updated with the infamous Overcome Chihoko incident that happened during the YOI stage event(that's why it topped tumblr), this is the most official canonical proof that they're officially canon.

@BlueOla: Of course people change and of course people say dumb things. A lot of people also apologize for dumb things they have said instead of deleting the tweet and pretending it never existed, but hey. I'm not claiming Kubo is a homophobe who hates gay people, I don't think she is that, but she made a homophobic tweet and then tried to sweep it under the rug, which yoi fans are way too defensive about. And c'mon, she looks up to a gay director so she can't be homophobic? Are we using the "I have black friends" argument here now?

Look here. I'm not anti yoi. I'm not against people liking this show or its characters. I'm also not against people feeling represented by this show (even though sadly so few of them seems to actually be japanese). What I am against is yoi fans calling this show the second coming of anime jesus that has done something that no manga or anime has ever dared to do before, because it's not true.

Yoi has done nothing that No.6, Doukyuusei, Sailor Moon, Utena, Evangelion, Cardcaptor Sakura, Shinsekai Yori, Paradise Kiss, Nabari No Ou and Wandering Son haven't already done. Kubo/Yamamoto hasn't done anything Hagio Moto, Yasuko Aoike, Keiko Takemiya, Fumi Yoshinaga, Gengoroh Tagame, Kamatani Yuhki hasn't already done. All of them have done works with LGBT characters in non BL manga predating yoi by years.

It's what gives me hope, as a gay individual, that maybe we'll get more well-written gay relationships in non-BL anime which I would so desperately love to see? Especially in such well-made, popular anime? That's why it NOT being BL matters.

or Loveless is labeled only as fantasy.

The first Kizuna oav based on Kazuma Kodaka's work by the same name got dubbed (wanna hear Yugi from Yu-Gi-Oh get all hot for a guy?).

Basically i think it's pretty messed up that anything with a queer (in this case, M/M) relationship gets pigeonholed into BL(or Yuri, or whatever), no matter what. Like if Yuri (or Victor) were a woman, I don't feel like anyone would be arguing with me over whether or not YOI is sports anime. And it's really important for real live queers to have access to everything, you dig? All genres. It's important for EVERYBODY, really, but especially queer people. This isn't my only reason, but it's the most important one to me.

I'm also not against people feeling represented by this show (even though sadly so few of them seems to actually be japanese).

Maybe it has to do with the fact that this "representation" fetish you guys have is exclusively a Western thing and the Japanese people don't look for validation in cartoons?

missts wrote:

I'm also not against people feeling represented by this show (even though sadly so few of them seems to actually be japanese).

Maybe it has to do with the fact that this "representation" fetish you guys have is exclusively a Western thing and the Japanese people don't look for validation in cartoons?