Forum - View topicI'm deeply disturbed by "Monster"
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Paranoia Phantom
 Posts: 33 |
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You cannto conclude such an irrational idea off of an hypothetical thought. Don't say "what if" Light didn't get the notebook. Hedid get the notebook. If you want to play that way, one would go as far as to say what if Tenma didn't save Johan? Johan only convinced some people that he never existed, but many others knew of him, mainly Tenma. Light was Kira, and not a soul could have proved it, or even thought of it outside of L. And even with his brilliance, Lights cunning persona derailed L's assumptions, thus declaring Light the absolute victor. So one again, Johan is trumped by Light. Well lets see, do randomly targeted murders consider and intellectual capability whatsoever? No. Simple as that. Anyone fool could go around killing the nameless innocent without justification. What Light did was different. His moral was shaped around the ideal of a Utopia; his killings came through pure wit and deception. Outsmarting the greatest detective in the world is no simple task. IN this, I correlate the difficulty of Light's actions to Johan's. You cannot compare the difference of the two. Johan had countless followers that would take a knee at his command. Light withheld Misa for the majority, whom was totally idiotic in every sense. Light did everything on his own, and almost brought a civilization to it's feet. |
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tebalith
Posts: 134 |
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Biological warfare is "not of this world"? Since when are bio weapons supernatural? We will have to disagree on "why" a person commits a crime being uninteresting - I think this is exactly what's fascinating and potentially disturbing about any crime, no matter what its nature or scale. You say only the method matters, it has to be big and unusual? |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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Way to completely miss the point. Johan is successful because of his own abilities, Light needs help. The only reason Johan was shot in the first place was spoiler[because he WANTED to be shot. It was part of his plan,] so you're what-if doesn't hold water.
Johan wasn't even trying, he hid in plain sight, so of course Light would "win". Also, spoiler[You can't take L's death as a victory for Light, since the events leading up to it were beyond Light's control. Rem killed L because L was about to figure out the Misa was the second Kira (which would lead to her trial and execution), and after catching Misa, it wouldn't take much longer to get Light. L was eliminated because it was too early for the to end, and there wasn't any way for him to not catch Light that early without eliminating him completely.]
Wit and deception? How full of crap are you? He saw the names of criminals in the paper and wrote them down. No trial, no definitive evidence, he just decided that they were probably guilty, that's no better than any other serial killer. You also keep claiming that Johan's accomplishments don't count because he had more followers, but you don't allow for Johan attaining those followers through his own charisma and intellect, while Light's has followers because they fear being killed if they do not fall in line with his will because he, by dumb luck, found an item that does not belong to the world in which he lives and grants the power of death. Furthermore, without Ryuk's assistance, Light would have had a much more difficult time evading the authorities. And spare me the argument about Ryuk claiming not to be on anyone's side; his goal was to entertain himself, and if Light was caught so easily, he'd be done with his fun and have to return to the boredom of the shinigami world. It was in Ryuk's interest to aid Light, whether the death god admitted it or not. |
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Paranoia Phantom
Posts: 33 |
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It becomes out of the realm of realism when the disease has no cure, something beyond explaintation. You've seen enough movies with this being evident. Does I Am Legend ring any bells? The warefare of sorts doesn't nessecarily mean between humans. It could be between nature and humanity, and in most cases, this is the precedent.
I disagree because most do not have motives, even if you want to believe so. Serial killer kill, in my opinion, out ofpleasure. Many do it for no reason whatsoever and will plead psychological distress in court as ample reason for parole. The "why" can never be discovered, and no matter what the killer himself says, they truly do not know. In my mind, It's the fact that a pre-meditated murder conducted in a gruesome fashion is what truly sticks out to people. Not the "why", for the public never really get a clear and concise answer. But once again, to each his own.
Johan was sucessful due to the events he witnessed at Kinderheim 511. For it not for that, and his unruly past, Johan would've been quite the lackluster fellow. I didn't miss the point, you just misunderstood.
Then what are you arguing? The cirumstances of said names death were not out of Light's control, and this is painfully obvious for anyone who has watched the anime or read the manga. Light sets everything up, Rem doesn't just act out of sheer randomness. How can one not take spoiler[L's death] as a victory for Light? L was the one and only barricade standing in Light's way to absolute tyranny, and he was taken down, by a plan Light himself set up. These events were not out of his control, Light withheld power over Rem throughout the entire scheme of things, mainly due to Misa's infatuation with his dashing persona. How can you argue this is not a victory? Sure it was cheap, sure he had an unfair advantage, but none the less, he won. Case closed.
For one, there's absolutly no need to jump the gun and throw a bad attitude my way. If you have problems, for God's sake take them eslewhere. I'm not here to start heated debates. Now in correlation to your remark; Light killed, but not aimlessly. He had access to the police database, and had a good idea of what crimes were being committed. Sure there was no just trial, and that may have been his flaw, but it was evident that most of the criminals he killed in the anime/manga were indeed guilty. And a serial killer kills out of pleasure, not self-gratification. So I guess one can label Light an "out of the box murderer".
Oh God, are you serious? Have you ever viewed Death Note in any way, shape, or form? Light did NOT obtain his loyal followers out of fear, the fear he harnessed was how he made enemies and drew the ICPL. So if I understand correctly, you are saying that Misa, Mikami, and Takada were all driven out of fear? That's ludicrous. They were driven out of sheer compassion for Light's ideals. Just as many do so for religion. However, you make a valid point that he found the Death Note out of dumb luck, but he found it none the less, and put it to sufficient use. I'm not saying his actions are justified, but clearly, the epilouge spoiler[depicts another individual finding the Death Note, and goig insanse due to incompetence.] Not any soul could have picked it up and did what Light did. Undertsand that, and you'll realize where I'm coming from with this arguement. You're arguement for Ryuk is flawed. Ryuk's actionsspoiler[ led to Light's eventual Death. ]He used Light. This is contradictory to actually helping him. Whether you mean it or not, you're implying that Light could not have survived on his own, when In sveral situations, Light outsmarts Ryuk. Johan obtained help through intellect and charisma. Now what you seem to not address is how Johan's followers aided him greatly. Light's flollowers were his downfall. Johan's followers were indeed competent in every way, while Light had nothing short of blinded fan boys. Johan, was a disturbed young man. He himself did not belive his actions, and is basically was lost within the confines of his own mind. At least, in this sense, Light had a set out plan, and knew what he was doing. Had he been surrounded by those of higher intelligence, things might have turned out different. Now, is it not logical to say that Light swayed Ryuk with his attractable persona? If Light was unintelligent, and utterly boring, Ryuk would've ultimatly gotten bored. It was Light's sheer brilliance, and cunning persona that led the shinigami to snap into attention. Whether that was a good or bad thing isn't up to us to decide. |
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driverstart
 Posts: 214 Location: America |
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Where do I begin to address all of this? Monster as silly as Naruto? No way. Monster isn't silly, it is very serious (If not a little hard to follow at some points) and deep serious. Of course people say this series is adult! Do you think little kids could understand any of this? Plus, I believe some of the nudity, violence, and dark tones would make this an adult series. Johan isn't a stupid name. The series is set in Germany, so Johan is a perfectly fine name for the setting. I agree with the fact that this series isn't perfect. The story line takes way too many twists and turns, focusing on some people that do not matter and introducing way too many characters. Plus, some of art work is kind of ugly in my view (Most of the female characters in this series are ugly). I also didn't like some of the questions left unanswered at the end and I sort of don't get what the reason why Johan did everything he did in final chapters. Perfect series? No. Great series. Yes. Do I dislike you for everything you said about this series? Not at all. Do I disagree with just about everything you said? You bet! |
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O-chan
 Posts: 78 Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan |
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I thought this would be the appropriate place to ask this but what's going on with the Monster manga's availability at bookstores? I live in Michigan and most of the local Borders barely keep it in stock and Barnes and Noble don't carry it at all. What's going on?
O-chan |
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Agoston
 Posts: 225 |
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The Xenos
 Posts: 1519 Location: Boston |
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Monster disturbed me... when Wilford Brimley showed up and stared telling me how Liberty Medical could help save me from the horrors of..
DIABEETUS!  
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arachneia
 Posts: 415 Location: On the wings of Bob Lennon |
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So, I thought this should be resurrected...
What I got from it is that Johan spoiler[had indeed inherited his mother's hate for Bonaparta/Poppe, and had decided to overturn and eradicate his life's work completely in revenge. Because Johann was, among others, a product of Bonaparta's experiment, he developed the idea of erasing himself from the world. Where this leaves Anna/Nina, I'm not sure. It could be that Johann was seeking vengeance for his monstrosity and not his existence in general, which I think is supported by several things, one of them being the story of the God of Peace.] |
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h2326q
Posts: 15 |
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The main problem I had with Monster is that Johan had the potential to be one of the best villains there is and his character wasn't developed.
Going into his inner conflict from his perspective would have helped a lot.
I would have been able to understand it as a child. [EDIT: In the future, edit your previous post rather than making a second consecutive post. With rare exceptions, this is required under forum rules. - Key] |
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tyciol
 Posts: 134 Location: Canada |
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I really liked Monster, only read about 5 or 6 volumes but it was cool up to that. I can understand if you like some other series better (I might or might not, I don't bother with favourites, too hard to figure out) but why is it disturbing?
Is it that you think something else deserves a top spot more that's disturbing, or the actual content? |
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1veedo
Posts: 1 |
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I don't mean to post something completely unrelated but when I searched animenewsnetwork for manga a while back I got the impression that the ratings weren't all that good (kind of like OP).
If I search in anime, by genre, I can find quite a few interesting animes but I have significantly less luck when it comes to manga. It seems like, overall, the ratings are less matured maybe because of a smaller fan base. Just because something is rated high doesn't mean everyone is going to enjoy it, of course, but if you narrow down by genre and start reading descriptions I would think you should be able to find stuff you'd like. Part of the problem is that manga can be a little confusing so people who read a lot of manga are going to appreciate different titles. There should be a site feature where you can select a few titles you enjoyed and have animenewsnetwork compare those against titles that other users enjoyed. |
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Maryohki
 Posts: 526 |
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Uh, OP, your opinion of something does not equate to a fact about the series. While I'm not a huge fan of Naoki Urasawa's art in general, the series of Monster itself is stunning in how it's written. Granted I'm only a few volumes in, but I'm completely addicted to it. Whether a show or manga is good or bad is entirely opinion-based, so kindly stop trying to pass off your opinion as fact.
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TC-man
 Posts: 118 |
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Well, I don't know how old the OP is, but for me this manga, Monster, is pretty a manga for the older audience; it is a seinen manga after all. In my opinion this manga is for adults, not because it's has gore, extreme violence or even sex etc. in it, but rather the psychological elements that are implemented throughout the manga. Also it really depends on the reader and what his/her frame of reference really are; you have to be able to link things that you know to or with the things that are happening in the manga. This is not a straight forward manga as Naruto or Bleach where you only follow the action page by page; in Monster you have to look for more, look deeper. Furthermore the manga pretty much refers to the spoiler[WWII (fascism, nazi, national-socialism) and its experiments with people and children], so if you already find spoiler[WWII and its history] boring, then this manga is not suitable for you.
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