Forum - View topicNEWS: Manga Aggregator Site Hosts Removed Scans Again
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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I'd have to say Rin-ne's simulataneous publication format is a great way to compete with the aggregators- and stuff like Digital Manga's iniative is yet another way to offer material that those sites may not have access to. Vertical's also often said in interviews they purposely choose books that haven't been scanlated to entice readers with something they can't get for free online. I imagine their plan is to continue rolling out digital [I don't doubt VIZ's Ipad titles will make their way to Kindle and other readers once those readers develop enough to better support reading comics on them], while shutting down sites like MangaFox- given it took an entire year to shutdown htmlcomics, it's going to take time.
And yeah, doing digital properly is not cheap, and with Rin-ne editors worked around the clock, so I hope people are patient. It probably took a ton of hard work to get Naruto on the Ipad for that matter- I think fans shrugging at the Ipad announcement are overlooking just how big it is to have ALL their topselling series available digitally, let alone Death Note 1 for free. It's a major step. I suppose it's underwhelming compared to illegal sites contents, but when you consider this is VIZ's cream of the crop their stepping out with, versus the random older/obscure series you tend to see with folks like NTTSolmare, it's very impressive. "Of course, as fans, we need to understand that this will take time, and we should be as supportive of the industry (and therefore the creators) as we can in the meantime. But in the meantime companies will shut down, and people will lose their jobs." I think Tempest's point is very honest- companies have to compete with these sites, have to try to shut them down and cope with new startups, but fans also have to keep in mind that they are a part of it, and that their actions have consequences for those making the manga. |
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Drunk_Samurai
Posts: 133 |
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They'll just keep shutting down the sites while more keep popping up. What does that even accomplish? They can never stop piracy completely.
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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And again, and again, and again, and.............
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gartholamundi
 Posts: 316 Location: Gainesville, FL |
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@ Drunk Samurai ... i always love that argument.
"there will always be crime, so not much point in trying to stop criminals." way to think that through. |
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Drunk_Samurai
Posts: 133 |
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It may be a crime but its not THAT bad of a crime. |
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gartholamundi
Posts: 316 Location: Gainesville, FL |
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Theft is theft. Scans steal money from the artists (who are often described as near poverty-level) who try and make this material. Someone is trying to make a living producing this entertaining art for their customers, and they're getting ripped off in a huge way.
And it is a crime where the criminals involved don't have to see their victims up close. With intellectual property theft online stealing can probably feel very clean and easy, which makes it simpler to imagine no one really suffered any consequences. Which is clearly wrong. Just because the criminal doesn't see the person they're stealing from doesn't mean no one was hurt. It's not significantly different from hacking into the bank accounts of dozens of very poor people every month and taking 20 or 30 bucks here and there from each and then pretending the criminal didn't really do all that much. But blah, blah, blah. Better thinkers and writers than me have addressed this point more eloquently than I could here. And I'm not trying to jump down your throat, Drunk Samurai. I'm just surprised I keep seeing people voice the attitude you expressed when it so clearly has not been thought through. Surprised why? I don't know. People see what they want to see, and if they want to steal scans they're not going to bother doing the research to see how these artists and distributors really live anyhow. |
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Sunday Silence
 Posts: 2047 |
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An old saying goes: If I can't see down the road, I ain't traveling it. If I can't see down the chapter line, why should I take a risk on buying the series if it goes to **** a few chapters ahead? |
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Drunk_Samurai
Posts: 133 |
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Please learn the difference between copyright infringement and theft. The point is that they will never be able to stop the sites or even if they did then everybody would start using IRC more often for their downloads. IRC is one thing they could never fully shut down. Actually add DC to that too. If somebody wants to download something then they will go out of their way for it. |
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LordRedhand
 Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
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First I agree with Paploo and Tempest.
Drunk samurai you need to learn some things about how an argument (in the philosophical sense is) constructed. As the above metaphor is sound. Explained here on the following pages. ' http://www.copyhype.com/2010/10/should-copyright-be-treated-like-property/ http://www.copyhype.com/2010/09/is-copyright-infringement-theft/ http://www.copyhype.com/2010/10/is-copyright-infringement-theft-part-2/ Those articles set up the logical argument as to why it is theft. |
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gartholamundi
Posts: 316 Location: Gainesville, FL |
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I've worked at a college library for more than 6 years. I more than get the difference. When a group of artists work in poverty-level conditions and the works they they make their livelihood from are illegally distributed your weak attempt at legal semantics becomes quickly pointless. @ Redhand, very nice articles. I liked the helicopter joke. 
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Drunk_Samurai
Posts: 133 |
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If you got the difference then you wouldn't have said theft. Not all of the artists work in poverty conditions and they don't get as much money as they should because the companies they work for take most of it. For instance you can call Shounen Jump the Japanese version of the RIAA. |
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Genet
Posts: 261 Location: USA |
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The fact that the artists work under a company that gets most of the money STILL doesn't excuse the fact that it's illegal and takes money from the artist. Also, scan groups used to pretty much always distribute their stuff via IRC, I don't think there were as huge of sales losses. With aggregator/read online sites, it's about a million times easier for people to "get their fix" and not have to pay. Also, the series are far less likely to come off the internet- so if a scan group requests their stuff down, back when people were more reliant on IRC, I think it was easier for them to take it off most available places- but on aggregator sites, you can literally find almost anything. So not only does it piss off the artists- a lot of groups that people say "are doing it out of the good of their hearts" are pretty angry, too. They have virtually no control over the content they release if it's stuck on a bunch of large sites, and even then, with smaller ones, they can't completely stop the spread of their stuff. I don't care if someone reads an unlicensed series with scans, but aggregator sites hurt EVERYBODY in the long run- the scanlators, the artists, everyone- except the lazy otaku who can't learn how to read an IRC tutorial and learn some patience.
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agila61
 Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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Suppose that there is someone selling bootlegs in front of the movie theater. The movie theater calls the cops on the guy. The guy moves to a dark alley somewhere. The bootlegs have not been "stopped completely ...
... but the activity of selling them does less damage when they are sold in a dark alley than they do in front of the movie theater. The way to tell that "Stopping piracy completely" is a complete and total red herring is that when the point is conceded, its still necessary to include enforcement against the most blatant and excessive bootleg distributors as part of the strategy of commercializing online content. |
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v1cious
 Posts: 6208 Location: Houston, TX |
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FYI, COICA just passed, so expect to see a huge shakeup soon in the aggregator sites: http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/11/coica-web-censorship-bill/
EDIT correction. it hasn't passed yet, it just made it to the senate floor. Either way, we all know it's going through. Last edited by v1cious on Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Takeyo
 Posts: 736 |
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To the best of my knowledge, it wasn't "passed," but did make it out of committee. It will probably come before the senate next year. Either way though, ugh.
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