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The Mike Toole Show - Anime Gets Sloppy


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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3085
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:54 am Reply with quote
DangerMouse wrote:


Damn yeah, so many great animated moments in FMA in there.
Those Bradley fights sampled in those sakuga collections for example were incredible and some great Milos scenes in there too.

Cool info on Birdy, loved that show.

Very Happy


Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood was the series that got me interested in animation like that. Such high quality and the best were all well under 30.

This is the trailer fore the final release of the bluray and its simply georgeous

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u045Jilakk

Star of Milos is up there as well. Here is the Chimera fight scene I talked about in my first post, the way the wolf Chimera runs at the 53 second mark and the absolute awesomeness that is 1:47+ really made me crave this movie on bluray.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzNJRtDlPUE
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Drac



Joined: 08 Apr 2005
Posts: 165
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:29 am Reply with quote
Top Gun wrote:
uguu wrote:
I just looked through episode 21 and I have no idea what you're talking about.

are you upset that Mugen has more facial definition here or what

It's not that he has more detail...it's that the shot you posted looks nothing like Mugen. He's horrifically off-model there, and if I remember correctly Jin was even more so in that episode. You can't convince me for a moment that this was a stylistic choice, especially since it's in the second half of a two-parter; why in the world would any episodic series decide to get experimental halfway through something like that, when they could choose any other episode to do so? And again, this is coupled with the fact that the episode's animation looks extremely low-budget when compared to almost every other fight scene in the entire series. It sticks out like a sore thumb, and not in the "we meant to do this" way that Gurren-Lagann's infamous episode 4 did.


Have you ever seen the Batman TAS two parter "Feat of Clay"? The first episode has some really bad animation done by a Korean studio that was eventually dropped from the show entirely. The second part features beautiful animation done by Japanese animators.

These shows always have different animation teams working on the next episode to get it out on time.
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NeoStrayCat



Joined: 14 Sep 2011
Posts: 614
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:11 am Reply with quote
Not even Blazblue: Alter Memory was safe. >_>

(At least the BD/DVD release fixes the Quality! Even though most of the turning point was that. But at least it got better!) :3

Noel and Hazama: http://bit.ly/1a7a4d9 / http://bit.ly/19LifPG

"Ice Sword": http://bit.ly/19dGen3 / http://bit.ly/1bpo0ih
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Zalis116
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Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 6872
Location: Kazune City
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:13 am Reply with quote
I definitely do remember that Yes Pretty Cure 5 scene, as it was in one of the later episodes of the series that I translated. And IIRC, I had some subtitle line wrongly ending just before the end of the scene, so I spent more time looking at that bizarre animation than I would have otherwise.
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Joe Carpenter



Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Posts: 503
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:27 am Reply with quote
thank you so much Mike for reminding me of Gundoh Musashi, I was thinking about that anime the other day but could not for the life of me remember the name
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Animegomaniac



Joined: 16 Feb 2012
Posts: 4093
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:19 am Reply with quote
Anti_Nadalista wrote:
Some people still don't get that Japanese animation is actually very similar to jazz or very Technical Progressive Metal with lots of tempo changes and time signatures. American animation is more like a pop song with a time signature of 4/4.

The great thing about anime is that you can have a cut animated by Toshiyuki Inoue in a very realistic way and the next one is done by Imaishi using Kanada's Style. Kyoani in another hand is a Studio were is very hard to tell animators apart because the animation in their shows is very consistent.


Please go look at Bob Clampett's Warner Brothers cartoons from the 1940s and then we can pretend that this post never happened.

His cartoons were often off model because of his direction and how he handled his animators and his work resulted in some of the strangest cels you'll ever see {the ones he personally loved were held as "wild takes" such as the eye thing from "Book Review"} before the internet learned to hate itself, ok, before the internet existed to hate itself so he never got all this wonderful feedback.

That's one half of animation limitations, strange images linked together for smooth movement, the other half is money. For some reason, I don't find evidence of a studio's lack of funds to be either surprising or all that amusing.

So in short: "It looks odd" or worse. There's something I should say about "art", "eyes", "beauty" and "beholder" but I forgot the word order. A lot of these offerings, I had to really study, thinking not so much what's wrong with this screenshot but what's wrong with the viewer.

Still, all of this is no excuse for Reign the Conqueror. Or Gilgamesh. Oh, this is just supposed to be about random bits? That's no fun.
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mewpudding101
Industry Insider


Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 2207
Location: Tokyo, Japan
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:21 am Reply with quote
Mermaid Melody
Will never forget this mistake. I had jumped ahead maybe 20 episodes just to look at the one with Coco, and I was like WHOA WHEN DID RINA CUT HER HAIR?!


As you can see, this is what her hair is SUPPOSED to look like throughout the series.
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invalidname
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 2452
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:56 am Reply with quote
Krotchstak wrote:
I've been kind of on the fence about the Anohana movie ever since I heard it was the series, but from Menma's perspective; not only did that feel extremely lazy, but Menma herself was one of my least favourite aspects of the series and I always felt it would have been just that much better if she herself existed only as a memory. Same series, just no actual appearance of her. This makes it sound like something a bit more interesting, although 60% seems like quite a lot of "story digest" for a movie that will mostly be seen by people who saw the series.

Thing is, I'm not sure calling it a "story digest" is an accurate depiction. In fact, I'm not sure that someone who hadn't watched the series would understand Anohana: the Movie at all, given the fluid way it hops between three time periods (the movie's "one year later" timeframe when the characters are writing letters to Menma and meeting up later at the Secret Base, the timeline of the original series when Menma appeared to Jintan, and the childhood timeline when Menma was alive). 60% seems a high estimate for the reused footage, though I hadn't seen the series in over a year, so maybe things that looked new to me really weren't.

Anyways, I think it's hard to describe quite what the movie is up to… outside of JesuOtaku's usual (and accurate) "Hooray, cashgrab!" Menma's POV is an element, yes, but it's certainly not the framing device for the movie. Much more accurate to say the thrust of the film is just catching up with how everyone's doing one year later.

Also, if anyone who wants to see it has yet to go (are there any more showings?), here's a tip: stay for the post-credits kicker. Though I guess that's pretty de rigeur nowadays, right?
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Oraculo



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 102
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:59 am Reply with quote
Very amusing article! Anime catgrin
And, um, speaking of "mistakes"... Maybe someone mentioned this already, but it's "walleyed," as in having eyes like a Walleye fish,

not "wall-eyed," as in having eyes like a... wall??? Shocked
Anyway, don't mean to be nit picky, jus' sayin'... Wink
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jr240483



Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 4385
Location: New York City,New York,USA
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:32 am Reply with quote
Beltane70 wrote:
I was expecting to see the Max and Milia knife fight from Macross in that link, dtm!


i was expecting that as well considering that should have been included in the list. however i didn't see any sign of sloppy scenes or parts that didn't look right during its robotech incarnation.
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tangytangerine



Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Posts: 439
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:19 pm Reply with quote
Never really knew the animation errors in Birdy the Mighty Decode were that bad, since I've only watched the DVD version Funimation put out.

But doing some digging on Youtube found this. Wow, that is laughably bad animation.
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Galap
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Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 2354
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:43 pm Reply with quote
someone_else wrote:
"Let me put it this way. Let's say you were three hundred pages into reading a novel. And then for no in-story reason the font suddenly changes to MS Mincho and the text size doubles and the kerning gets dicked around with, and the changes only last one chapter before switching back to what they were. Would you not find that irritating as hell? I know I would."

That example is deliberately irritating. There is poetry that messes around with formatting in interesting ways, and it's cool because it's part of the medium.
In any case, the analogue would be the style of prose, not the font size. The prose is what makes a book interesting.


I'm only responding to this because I think the way this analogy is bad points to the core of the issue here.

The analogy is bad because in a book, things like the font and text size are aspects of the substrate of the material: they have nothing to do with the content. In anime, the way the animation looks is part of the content.

This matters because a substrate related thing changing around would be distracting, while a content related thing changing around is... just the content changing around.

The thing that kind of surprises me is how so few anime fans are really animation fans. I see so many people only really thinking about animation in terms of some kind of 'objective quality' (and arriving at irritating-as-hell descriptors such as "QUALITY"), on a sliding scale from good to bad, where they really only seem to like things that look 'neat' and 'consistent', rather than really giving the visual art much thought. I don't think a lot of fans have a good visual vocabulary, and don't really like to think much about the visuals, which is weird to me because I'd think that a medium that is visual art would draw people that like to think about visuals in a serious way.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:23 pm Reply with quote
Galap wrote:


The thing that kind of surprises me is how so few anime fans are really animation fans. I see so many people only really thinking about animation in terms of some kind of 'objective quality' (and arriving at irritating-as-hell descriptors such as "QUALITY"), on a sliding scale from good to bad, where they really only seem to like things that look 'neat' and 'consistent', rather than really giving the visual art much thought.


In my head those responses always play out like this:



"absolutely perfect this is how a painting is *supposed* to look"



"LOL 'QUALITY' "



"LOL GARBAGE LOOK HOW BAD THE PAINTING IS"

I'm not saying animation mistakes are just different 'kinds' of animation and should be appreciated but when it comes down to actually talking about visual art and aesthetic style in anime the above basically represents 99% of the attitude I see from a whoooooole lot of fans.
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Roukanken



Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Posts: 19
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:39 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
For one brief, shining moment, Mint, Rouge, Lemonade, Aqua, and Mint

You look a bit QUALITY there yourself.



I'll just leave this here
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JonLa



Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 55
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:10 pm Reply with quote
Galap wrote:


I'm only responding to this because I think the way this analogy is bad points to the core of the issue here.

The analogy is bad because in a book, things like the font and text size are aspects of the substrate of the material: they have nothing to do with the content. In anime, the way the animation looks is part of the content.

This matters because a substrate related thing changing around would be distracting, while a content related thing changing around is... just the content changing around.

The thing that kind of surprises me is how so few anime fans are really animation fans. I see so many people only really thinking about animation in terms of some kind of 'objective quality' (and arriving at irritating-as-hell descriptors such as "QUALITY"), on a sliding scale from good to bad, where they really only seem to like things that look 'neat' and 'consistent', rather than really giving the visual art much thought. I don't think a lot of fans have a good visual vocabulary, and don't really like to think much about the visuals, which is weird to me because I'd think that a medium that is visual art would draw people that like to think about visuals in a serious way.


Great idea for a series of features on basic appreciation of anime/visual vocabulary here. Make it happen ANN!
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