Forum - View topicREVIEW: She, The Ultimate Weapon DVD
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Akane the Catgirl
Posts: 1091 Location: LA, Baby! |
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I'm sorry, but what you said is complete garbage. Fiction works differently than reality. That much is obvious. In a fictional story, if you're going to kill off a character, there needs to be a reason WHY they were killed off. Otherwise, it'll come off as gratuitous at best and pointless at worst. |
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Kadmos1
 Posts: 13567 Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP |
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For those that haven't really seen the manga, the last 8 chapters has borderline H sex scenes.
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Actar
 Posts: 1074 Location: Singapore |
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Thank you very much for your analysis in your previous posts. I have to say that I enjoyed reading them. However, you brought up a very interesting point that I have quoted. In my opinion, whether or not one is receptive to emotional manipulation depends a lot on how one approaches fiction. With your fundamental premise of fiction functioning differently from reality (which I feel generalizes too much), it's clear that you see a fictional world as something that is constructed. You argue that everything has to serve a purpose within the narrative or be substantiated by the narrative for it to be valid. While this view is certainly understandable, it leaves the viewer highly cynical and critical with regard to emotional manipulation. However, if one looks at fiction as an alternate reality in and of itself, it no longer counts as emotional manipulation as there is no manipulator. Characters are no longer constructs or plot devices, but actual people and the experiences that are created through that "manipulation" become more genuine. In this case, it's the experience itself that counts as opposed to what it does for the overall narrative and does not require much set-up. Are the coincidences in Tokyo Godfathers just coincidences or lazy writing? In my opinion, "tragedy for tragedy's sake" does serve a function beyond the narrative. In Key anime not only provides cathartic release for the viewer, but it also illustrates the harshness of reality and how the characters go about coping with and overcoming tragedy ala Nobody's Boy Remy. Just to clarify, I think different shows require different criteria and different approaches to appreciate. Clannad versus Madoka, Slice-Of-Life versus Horror, it's never a one-size-fits-all and I say that it's like comparing apples to oranges. Neither is better or worse. Just different. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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You're arguing in favor of deluding yourself about fiction in order to not notice bad writing? |
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Actar
Posts: 1074 Location: Singapore |
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We're all deluding ourselves. It's called suspension of disbelief. Just that some are more self-reflexive than others. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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It sounds like wholesale rejection of critical thinking and a complete dismissal of the study of film as artistic expression in favor of a delusional fantasyland scenario where there are no writers and everything you're watching is like a documentary from another world. "Suspension of disbelief" is what I was talking about in the review - if you can engage your audience with the human story you're telling, the fantasy elements being nonsensical won't matter. |
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Actar
Posts: 1074 Location: Singapore |
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I have never refuted critical thinking nor have I dismissed the study of film as artistic expression. You seem to think that people are not capable of appreciating shows in a multifaceted way. The perspectives are not mutually exclusive. As I have clearly stated, it is up to the individual with regard to the approach that he or she takes with the medium of fiction. I'm talking about enjoyment and how one can gain the most from a show by shifting their perspectives. It also depends on the genre. Many slice-of-life shows are about the "delusional fantasyland scenario" and you're only deluding yourself if you expect a deep plot. You're not going to enjoy a horror show if you judge it based on the laughs it gets out of you. Besides, your line of "engage your audience" is highly subjective as well. Last edited by Actar on Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:05 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23832 |
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Yes, reading Zac's two reviews is definitely a trippy experience. I don't disagree with the designation of SaiKano as "tragedy porn" but I still liked it. Just because I can intellectually recognize inelegant emotional manipulation doesn't mean that emotionally I am immune to it. I went with it. I got the feels. *shrug*
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ANN_Bamboo
ANN Contributor
 Posts: 3904 Location: CO |
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1. The deaths in Saikano do have reasons to exist. They show us the cruelty of war, not from a soldier's perspective, but just as a civilian. How you can go to the mall with your friends, shopping for trinkets for your girlfriend, and the next minute you're dead. These moment don't matter to Chise... they don't even register to Chise... she's deeply selfish and doesn't consider the lives that she wipes out... but it matters to those who are casualties of her actions. His friends are grieving the next day, his girlfriend is crying-- she quits school and hangs out with random dudes because "what's the point of trying", his friend joins the forces -- these are all direct effects of one death. 1.5. In the same vein of Chise's selfishness... their last love song is the most selfish of all. Because she leaves him alive, but to what end? We all know what the inevitable end is, if not in a couple days, then in a few days. Neither of them can see past themselves, nor do they try. 2. I disagree that "fiction is not reality" necessitates that everything in fiction must have a higher purpose. Sometimes something functions merely to reflect reality. |
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Akane the Catgirl
Posts: 1091 Location: LA, Baby! |
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Woah, woah, hold your horses! I never implied that EVERYTHING had to have a purpose. To be honest, I'm very easily entertained. Not a lot of stuff- not even bad stuff- gets my goat. (For example, I recently watched an awful documentary in English class, but I didn't hate it; it was just embarrassing to see how childish and immature the filmmaker was. It didn't matter what the topic was, since I'm not interested into getting into politics on this forum. What matters is that the guy making the movie was a complete idiot.) There are rules in fiction, and while you can make a good story by following them, you can make a great story by breaking a few. All I ask is that:
1. The characters must be believable, not cliches, stereotypes, or personality-less cardboard cutouts. 2. That your story have a point. (To capture an emotional experience, to tell a message, or for just having a good time.) 3. That you don't have plot holes, inconsistency, or unlikable heroes. Stuff like Future Diary fails when it comes to emotion because I don't care about the characters or the story. Tutu, Madoka, Berserk and Wolf's Rain succeed because I give a damn about what these people go through and the story itself is fascinating and complex. There needs to be substance, is what I'm saying. On the subject of the anime being reviewed, WOW. I have never seen so much unanimous HATRED for an anime before. I know there's people here who did legitimately like it, but I can easily count on one hand the total number of defenders. When my Japanese gets good enough, I'll probably give the show a try just to see what the hullabaloo is about. OR, I could just read the original manga, but I have too much on my plate. I really need to get the third and fourth volumes of the Flowers of Evil manga. Now THAT'S quality writing... |
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BadNewsBlues
Posts: 5976 |
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Considering how terrible the manga got with people getting killed left and right that's not a bad thing. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18219 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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I guess that's why I was never a fan of Wolf's Rain, then; because I didn't find any of the cast endearing enough to give much of a damn about them or their fates. And if you want to talk about a title that could legitimately be labeled "tragedy porn" in its later stages, and not in a good way. . . But I know that is not a widely-shared opinion, so I will not press the matter further. |
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tuxedocat
 Posts: 2183 |
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I remember watching this, and another show that I won't mention, and the experience almost made me quit anime forever. Fortunately, I tried out the Twelve Kingdoms before completely giving up, so here I am, still buying anime discs.
Back when I was first getting into anime I was renting a lot of stuff to see if I liked it before buying. Back then, all anime was at the AoA level price-wise, so buying was an investment that I didn't want to make without knowing what the show was about first. Particularly disheartening at the time were all the reviews raving about this show. Unlike now, every review and discussion about this show made it out to be the best thing ever. It was then that I figured out not to depend on reviews or other people's opinions and to just explore on my own. Actually, that has worked out pretty well for me ever since. I guess I have this show to thank for that, but it's a dubious distinction. |
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Stratum
 Posts: 42 |
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First of all I never said that I was only talking about purely fictional stories, as some stories can be related to reality. I'm curious as to your take on Grave of the Fireflies since according to Key it connects to real life.
Second, the whole point I was trying to make was your I found your view that a death scene MUST lead to somebody else accomplishing something was too limiting. A death scene should reflect the author's own view on the subject. Various examples include: 1. Finding meaning in death is pointless, it's how a person lived that matters 2. Learning how to cope with death and dealing with grief 3. Death isn't something the should be feared, but rather embraced 4. Dying do to carelessness in order to serve as warning to others and of course the one you used 5. Dying for no other reason then to advanced the plot Analyzing these scenes and trying to figure out what the author is trying to convey is what makes these scenes worth it. |
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Allen_ST
Posts: 15 |
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Didn't know that this series was so hated. Although I don't excuse the ending, I love this series. The drama , the characters and the tragedies are really well done. Also, "Tragedy Porn", wow, no offense to the reviewer but that is such a dumb term.
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