Forum - View topicKids on the Slope (TV).
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11356 |
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That scene had very little to do with East/West cultural differences and everything to do with girl/boy cultural differences, which even then was just the vehicle and not the point. spoiler[Ritsuko had been kissed exactly twice in her life, and was probably expecting another kiss or five, but was in no way prepared for even a full-on makeout session, let alone anything more. For her, alone in the bedroom did not equal an invitation to pounce her. And what she really wanted was just to talk to him privately about Sentarou, trying to recapture some of the closeness the three of them had. But Kaoru knew that. He deliberately rushed her and pushed her (literally) past her limits because he knew how she would react to both his words and actions, and he wanted her to hate him. This was his self-inflicted punishment for not being able to make Sentarou stay. He needed a way to wreck everything so he would be alone again, because in his mind it's what he deserved and the way things should be, so he took the opportunity when it presented itself. Plus it was also a crude way to cut his ties before going to Tokyo.] |
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rheiders
 Posts: 1137 Location: Colorful Colorado :) |
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It's just a veil type of thing. It used to be that women had to have their heads covered in church. Some women still wear them as a sign of respect towards God, but it's not a requirement in most churches. In the show, Vatican II had only just happened four years previous, so I'm sure it would have been much more common then^^ I do wonder, though--Are Japanese Catholic churches still this traditional? I know it can be very different depending on what country you're in. I'm also really pleased to see the Catholic church portrayed positively, and not as some big deal. Ritsuko and Sen just happen to be Catholic, and it's nice to see it handled in such a nonchalant way. 
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Riddley
 Posts: 536 Location: Ireland |
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This... ^ I still see some more traditional women wearing the veils on their heads. Actually, thanks for everyone pointing out the situation with them in the bedroom. I actually didn't think of it that way to be honest. spoiler[ I sort of thought he was just trying to connect with someone he cared for and had been distant to since Sen had gone. I really wasn't thinking of it like he just wanted to drown his sorrows in a make-out session. I do think the Catholicism thing comes into play and I /facepalmed myself when I read that because 1.) I'm Catholic and as I said, I loved how it was portrayed in the series, and 2.) I'd forgotten she was Catholic cus so many anime put Christianity to the wayside and it never is important to their characters.][/spoiler] |
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11356 |
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I just wanted to clarify that I don't think it was as conscious and calculated as I made it sound. But when people sabotage things like that, it's usually because they're mad at themselves, rather than the person they're taking it out on.
spoiler[I think going with her, he really did want to reconnect with her. He might even have been able to behave himself, if he hadn't seen the picture and she hadn't kept wanting to talk about him.] |
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yuna49
 Posts: 3804 |
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What bothers me about this whole sequence is that much of the angst could have been resolved if Kaoru and Ritsuko had had a frank discussion of their feelings for each other and for Sentarou. I know that's not the easiest thing for adolescents to do, and it certainly would have reduced the "drama" of the situation.
spoiler[That whole period starting with Kaoru's declaration of love after his illness is just exceedingly strange. The very next scene jumps months into the future and leaves their entire relationship on the table. Didn't they, you know, go to a movie or something? Maybe take in a concert? Do some dating? ] I guess that if the purpose of Sakamichi no Apollon is to show that adolescents have a hard time expressing their feelings and acting upon them accordingly, then it did an excellent job. Perhaps it's just hard to comprehend this show as a gaijin. I was a fifteen-year-old American Catholic in 1964, and dating and making out was certainly not that uncommon among my age cohort and teen-aged co-religionists. Pace Billy Joel, not all those Catholic girls started "much too late." |
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Riddley
Posts: 536 Location: Ireland |
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It's a Japanese/anime thing, imho. There's a lot of trying to make your feelings known to someone without actually coming out and having frank discussions about their feelings.
I don't know if that actually happens in real life, but I do know from what I've read of people in east/west relationships that you take it really slow on average starting a relationship with Japanese women compared to western women. But at the same time, apparently they'll be happy to have one-night stands on certain occasions. I've actually studied sexuality in Japanese culture back in college and it's fascinating (the Edo period in particular). They have a very love-hate relationship with sex and being physically intimate that stems from their society and stuff. But anyways, I think personally the issue at hand here was as other posters said...spoiler[she wanted to talk about Sen. He was likely feeling distanced from her because they both cared about Sen and was often the link between the two of them. I think he wanted to create the connection with her, but those emotions sort of overtook him and he went to far. Her Catholic faith probably played a part, and then the whole ackwardness of the moment was too much.] Personally I think the reason they skipped months and didn't focus on the spoiler[relationship between Riko and Kaoru is because that's not what it was about. The anime was about Kaoru and Sen's friendship and how it changes both men. Ri-chan was important, but her relationship (or non-relationship) with Kaoru was more about character development than a plot point.] |
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yuna49
Posts: 3804 |
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I might agree with that argument if there were actually some "development," especially with respect to Kaoru. In many ways he doesn't seem all that different at the end of the series than he did at the beginning. Yes, he became friends with Sentarou, but what else really changed for him? He didn't really appear to make any other friends at school. I thought he had built up a relationship with Sachiko after the scene at the playground, but then spoiler[he seems remarkably nonplussed about her near-fatal accident. His reaction is more of "Oh, thank God it wasn't Sen! Where is he?" while the parents are wondering if their daughter was about to die.] Last edited by yuna49 on Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Riddley
Posts: 536 Location: Ireland |
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Yeah, agreed, I thought that was really messed up as well. But maybe spoiler[it's a secret gay love-affair! haha no seriously, that part did make me kinda of think he was an ass.]
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Vata Raven
 Posts: 710 Location: TN |
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Any news on who is going to be in the dub form Sentai?
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darkhappy1
 Posts: 495 Location: PA |
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@ Vata Raven
You might want to wait another year. The show just finished a week ago. |
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One-Eye
 Posts: 2261 |
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I don't know how to feel about this, but I'm kinda not liking Kaoru a bit here. First to echo what someone else mentioned I don't think he changed that much thru out the series. I feel bad for Ritsuko since Kaoru is moody, self absorbed, prone to throwing hissy fits from the beginning till graduation. Honestly, I'm not sure I'd want him as spoiler[my doctor]. Also I understand that Kaoru was upset that Sentaro spoiler[disappeared], but on the other hand what did he think was going to happen when they graduated? I mean he was going to spoiler[go off to college and obviously Sentaro wasn't or did he think that Sentaro was going to follow him and they'd shack up and continue their bromance?] His behavior seemed immature and a little selfish, since I don't think he was the only one upset with what happened.
I don't know maybe I missed something, but I wasn't digging how things went in the last 2 episodes or maybe I'm just being too picky. |
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yuna49
Posts: 3804 |
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I'll join you in being "picky" then. Elsewhere I wrote that episode four was the finest single anime episode I had watched in months. The middle portion of this series was often brilliantly and subtly directed. Many scenes conveyed a lot of meaning with just a gesture or two. Episode eleven destroyed much of what had been built up over the previous weeks. spoiler[The motorcycle accident is the most obvious example. Such a cliched method of creating "drama," much of which was never resolved. Sen starts to leave (why?), then is convinced to stay, then leaves again, abandoning his siblings. I felt especially bad for Sachiko who was relying on her brother to help her deal with her father's return, and Sen up and runs off. Then when his sister is lying injured in a hospital room he retreats again and soon runs away. None of this is ever really resolved in the episode that follows since we only see Sentarou eight years later when he is a cleric. In episode twelve we have the lovely-to-listen-to, but entirely unrealistic jam session in the church. Kaoru tells Yurika (who just happens to wander by one day) that he had stopped playing piano. Yet he seems in full command of his musical skills playing a church organ, an instrument which we never see him play at any other time in the show. Oh, and then Ritsuko just happens by. Has she lived in this town for eight years? Apparently she hadn't encountered Sen in this time given her reaction to seeing him and Kaoru. There were just so many inconsistencies and so much unfinished business that the show lost a lot of its appeal to me in those last two episodes.] I was also bothered by the limited characterizations of the women in the show. Yes, I know it's supposed to be about the relationship between the boys, but the girls, Ritsuko in particular, seem more like cardboard cutouts than real characters. spoiler[It was hard to take Kaoru's interest in Ritsuko seriously given how weak a character she is. Yurika had some gumption, but I found it unbelieveable that she had stayed with Jun for eight years. There was nothing in their relationship that suggested it had much staying power. She wanted to escape her constricting life, and he wanted...., well I'm not sure what he wanted. He didn't seem to be shopping for a wife. Two lustful young people, one of whom was just sixteen and the other a twenty-something "player," run off together then build a deep and lasting relationship. It's just not plausible.] |
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One-Eye
Posts: 2261 |
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To me the whole spoiler[motorcycle accident] was just an excuse for spoiler[the time skip]. I would have preferred a 24 episode series, drop spoiler[the time skip] and have these characters deal with their relationships beyond high school with more music (i was never satisfied with what they had) and more on the time period.
I'm not trying to throw hate on this show. There are plenty of things I liked, but there are things that bug me and I'm not sure it lived up to its potential. I actually feel that I might want to watch it again at a later date to see if I'm more tolerant of some things down the road or if they will still irk me. |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23774 |
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Well, just to address the "coincidence" of Ritsuko spoiler[showing up at the end ... she clearly had some kind of postcard in her hand, right? It's ambiguous, but I interpreted that to mean that Kaoru (or maybe Yurika) had written to tell her where to show up. So it wasn't just a matter of, "oh zounds, I just happen to be here."]
I do agree that the spoiler[lack of resolution between Sen and his family was just horrible, though.] A real dropped ball. |
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One-Eye
Posts: 2261 |
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