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What is it about Yaoi that's so appealing? Topic 4 fangirls


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darkhunter



Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 2992
Location: Los Angelas

PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 8:05 pm Reply with quote
Kagemusha wrote:
Quote:
A manga like Junk Force and Battle Vixen are fun, but I don't see them toppling sales.

That's probobly because there's simply more of a market for yaoi than these titles. Yaoi owes some of its success to the fact that shojo is currently a popular genre in the American market.


Um i was only using that as an example of why yaoi is a lot more popular than those ecchi manga for guys.
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wanderer



Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:22 am Reply with quote
darkhunter wrote:
wanderer wrote:
I think this question is kind of funny. Why is yaoi appealing? Well, why is action appealing? Romance? Sci-fi? Drama?
I like yaoi /shonen-ai for the same reasons I like drama and romance and comedy and any other type of manga I read. Its fun and entertaining.

.


Many people can like it for many different reason. Some find it fascinating while other find it arousing. That was the purpose of this post, to find out the many reason why girls and women like it. (not why "should" they like it).


You'll find out quickly that I have a tendency to word things badly sometimes Wink . I didn't mean to belittle your question at all. Actually, I appreciate you posting this topic because I wonder myself sometimes why I like it so much. I have a lot of yaoi/shonen-ai manga. I also have a lot of shojo and romance manga. I like them for the same reasons because at their core they're basically the same sorts of stories (romance, relationships, etc). But you're right, there is something different about yaoi that is so appealing for me that I still don't fully understand. As was this thread's intent, many deeper reasons for the appeal of yaoi have surfaced. Some of which, as a female yaoi-reader, I hadn't even realized! But on the same note, a lot of the attaction of yaoi is really simple: its sexy and "stimulating".
darkhunter wrote:
To tell you the truth, I bet a lot of guys would be confuse on why gils like "gay porn", so this would at least help them understand the many different reason.

Maybe another thing that may help guys understand is considering why they like "gay porn". Lots of men enjoy seeing two women together in romantic/sexual situations. I may be wrong and mean no offense to anyone, but perhaps similar reasons apply?

For me, I tend to think of "porn" as something with little content other than sex. It's main purpose being tittilation or arousal. A lot of yaoi is that- "porn"- and those reasons apply, for sure. But much of the yaoi/shonen-ai we're getting translated is more than that; containing little or no sex and having plot, character development, etc., that you'd see in any manga. I wouldn't classify those as porn, and calling all yaoi/shonen-ai porn won't help end the confusion. However, with or without outright sex , I find romance between two men just as stimulating as romance between a man and a woman.

The impression from some of your comments is that guys' main curiosity is about the sexual appeal of yaoi. I can understand why guys would be confused. Maybe its because its generally not socially accepted for women to be enthusiastic about porn or even sex (let alone gay sex), whereas for guys it is. (And if she openly is, the chances of her receiving an unflattering nickname increase Sad .)

A lot of girls are telling guys they don't like it, and while some truly don't, others may just be embarrassed to admit it. Last week at work the topic came up so I mentioned to some of my male co-workers that I'd read a "saucy book". They acted like I was some sort of deviant and are still teasing me about it, despite the fact that I'm grown. I can only imagine if I had told them it was a romance graphic novel about two guys in a sexual relationship...

Coworker no.1= Shocked, coworker no.2 = ConfusedArrowAnime dazed??! ExclamationQuestion
(there's no vomiting emoticon or head exploding from total lack of comprehension.)

...Having guys think you're a pervert or like 'weird' things isn't fun at any age. ( not saying that yaoi is weird, or any of us are perverts for liking it, just that that may be the perception.)

all of this is pure speculation but I hope I helped...I could write about this forever ...and probably will...Anime catgrin + sweatdrop (apologizes in advance)

Thanks for the thread, by the way!
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Cloe
Moderator


Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 2727
Location: Los Angeles, CA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 4:59 pm Reply with quote
Onv wrote:
Diedrupo wrote:
i'm not a fangirl, but I think the obvious reason is that girls like yaoi for the same reason guys like hentai/ecchi/ero. It's stimulating. Laughing

That's the only reason why I like yaoi. No real deep explanation here. Wink


Amen. Smile
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darkhunter



Joined: 13 May 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 9:01 pm Reply with quote
Double post

Last edited by darkhunter on Fri Dec 10, 2004 9:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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darkhunter



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 9:02 pm Reply with quote
Most of us guys havn't read Yuri to say that we like it.

Last edited by darkhunter on Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:21 pm; edited 2 times in total
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darkhunter



Joined: 13 May 2004
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Location: Los Angelas

PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 9:05 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
To tell you the truth, I bet a lot of guys would be confuse on why gils like "gay porn", so this would at least help them understand the many different reason.
Maybe another thing that may help guys understand is considering why they like "gay porn". Lots of men enjoy seeing two women together in romantic/sexual situations. I may be wrong and mean no offense to anyone, but perhaps similar reasons apply?


Well I was refering too books, especially novel. Yuri isn't as popular as yaoi. I don't know if there's any manga here in the US (or outside of japan) that deal with women/women in a sexual relationship (perhaps in a romantic one). So even if guys want to see girl on girl action, they'll go rent a porn dvd than buy a book about 2 girls in a romantic relationship.


Last edited by darkhunter on Fri Dec 10, 2004 9:08 pm; edited 2 times in total
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J-Syxx



Joined: 19 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 9:07 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Well I was refering too books, especially novel. Yuri isn't as popualr as yaoi. So even if guys want to see girl on girl action, they'll go rent a porn dvd than buy a book about 2 girls in a romantic relationship.

Well, I break that stereo-type. I probably posted this before, so sorry if I'm being redundant, but right now I'm a real big fan of shoujo-ai. I also prefer it when they don't go into detail about the sex, and focus on the romance and character drama instead. I think some of the appeal may be that romance between two of the same sex is alot more intriguing than your standard coupling. Guys and girls also sometimes develop feelings for anime/manga characters, like similar to a crush, so if you like two characters from a certain show/manga, it may actually be alot funner to put them together as oposed to their counter-parts of the oposite sex. I don't think asuming its always about stimulation is accurate, but of course that may be more likely the case if we're talking about youi vs. shounen-ai, which is pornographic by nature.
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CCSYueh



Joined: 03 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:21 pm Reply with quote
The manga market seems to be filling in missing niches in the American market. Shojo is very popular partly because so much is male-oriented here. When I pick up my manga at the local comic shop, I'm often the only chick there besides the clerk(& there seem to be 2 gals there--the rest are male employees). When I stop by Waldens or other bookstores, the manga section is usually populated by gals(often teens).
Guys can find gal on gal action readily available in domestic product so the licensees likely don't feel importing it would find that large an audience. Trust me, they are well aware of their demographics
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Sir_Brass



Joined: 11 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:31 pm Reply with quote
lianncoop wrote:

I guess this also makes sense since a lot of shoujo/yaoi are drawn by female artists. I dunno, seemed like interesting points when I read it. As far as American girls are concerned...I really don't have an explanation for that.


This is also reflected in the fanfiction world where there is something called "slash" which is done primarilly by females, and the chief romance in the story is boy x boy. Don't ask me why, but it is.

As a guy, I'm thinking that it's along the same lines as why so many guys like lesbians. 1) the guy isn't having to compete with any other guys over the women because the women aren't going after guys. 2) the women themselves are unobtainable.

True, what the guys are after in a yuri manga isn't what girls are after in a yaoi manga, but the underlying reasoning could be seen as very similar in nature.

Thoughts?
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wanderer



Joined: 09 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 4:19 pm Reply with quote
J-Syxx wrote:
Guys and girls also sometimes develop feelings for anime/manga characters, like similar to a crush, so if you like two characters from a certain show/manga, it may actually be alot funner to put them together as oposed to their counter-parts of the oposite sex.

So many women are into this; the fanfictions and doujinshi... which is why we have so many Gundam ,Saiyuki, Kenshin etc. yaoi doujinshi out there, and so many people are writing fan fictions. I personally don't care for yaoi doujinshi of non-yaoi series. Its just too weird seeing characters involved in a relationship different from the one they had in the original series. Do any other women feel this way? I mean, yaoi is yaoi; and I like yaoi, but seeing Kenshin with Sano or Vash and Wolfwood making out just gives me the heebie jeebies.. Confused
J-Syxx wrote:
I don't think asuming its always about stimulation is accurate, but of course that may be more likely the case if we're talking about youi vs. shounen-ai, which is pornographic by nature.
I agree with you. We can't assume its always about stimulation or anything else for that matter. The appeal is going to be different for everyone. For some people the depiction of romance and relationships is more stimulating than the depiction of the sex itself, and vice versa. It all depends on the tastes of the reader.
Sir_Brass wrote:
True, what the guys are after in a yuri manga isn't what girls are after in a yaoi manga, but the underlying reasoning could be seen as very similar in nature.

I agree, I think the underlying reasons, after you take away everything, is basically the same. The unattainability, the fantasy, the sensuality; all of the basic ideas as to why yuri and yaoi are appealling to men and women (respectively) are basically the same. When you add the personality of the reader and different storylines and artwork, the reasons for the appeal may become different but not as much as some might think. I think the basic appeal of sexual/romantic themes in these types of manga is the same for men and women. Which is what I was getting at when I suggested guys consider why they like seeing two women together (regardless of the media- just consider the reason for the appeal of girl/girl). Guys and girls couldn't be more different, but maybe the basic reasons why we're attracted to certain concepts (like yuri/yaoi) are the same, its possible. I thought that thinking of it that way might help guys understand a little better why some girls like yaoi.
darkhunter wrote:
Well I was refering too books, especially novel.
( btw-Are we talking about yaoi novels too? I haven't read any, and I don't believe any are available in the US yet, so I can't really comment on those. Those are more like regular books though, and usually don't contain as much imagery as manga ...I wonder if it makes a difference, just reading as opposed to reading and seeing?...perhaps that's a whole other discussion Anime dazed )
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darkhunter



Joined: 13 May 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:20 pm Reply with quote
I wonder if there's any male mangaka (straight male) that have done a yaoi manga before. Would that be out of the question?
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J-Syxx



Joined: 19 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:42 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
I wonder if there's any male mangaka (straight male) that have done a yaoi manga before. Would that be out of the question?

Probably. Some manga-ka have done shoujo manga mainly for the money. I imangine it might be the same for youi.
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v1cious



Joined: 31 Dec 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:44 am Reply with quote
Sakura no Miko wrote:
Ehehe, as a pretty big yaoi--well, shounen ai, really--fan, let's see...

Hmmm...well, I guess the best way to explain it is thus: girls read yaoi, and then go on to write yaoi. Yaoi is an almost entirely female fandom. Essentially, yaoi are the feminine ideal.

I read somewhere that the guys in yaoi are essentially a blend of the best female and male traits. So girls can identify with the "masculine" traits of bravery and strength, while still identifying with the "feminine" beauty, romance, ect. For example, yaoi guys can be rescued, then go right back and rescue.

And since gay romance is something most girls can't experience, they can imagine it as being however they want it to be--romantic and flowery, rough and tumble, or some strange combination of the two.

Then there's the whole factor of seeing many, many good-looking guys together, without the interference of girls... :p

I dunno. That's all I can think of. Personally, I just find yaoi writers to be better overall in the fanfiction realm. But that's just my opinion... Embarassed



uhh... but they'e in love with other men. how is this appealing to females?

is it like men's attraction to Yuri?
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CCSYueh



Joined: 03 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 2:14 am Reply with quote
I understand GetBackers is by 2 dudes.
I believe the artist of Only the Ring Finger is a gal, but the author is a dude. Or maybe it was Skyscrapers of Oz. Maybe both......
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Sir_Brass



Joined: 11 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:49 am Reply with quote
v1cious wrote:


uhh... but they'e in love with other men. how is this appealing to females?

is it like men's attraction to Yuri?


Bingo. it is exactly that, IMO. The idea that the girls wouldn't go for ANY man, is appealing somewhat to guys because there'd be no competition. This may sound perverted, but it's true: to guys who are real yuri, shoujo-ai, and lesbian porn fans, the girl/girl thing is like a spectator sport: sit back and enjoy the show.

I'd suspect that it's somewhat similar with girls (not being one, I can't say if that's true or not. just bear with me here) in that they don't have to compete for the guy's affections AT ALL and can also not worry about him going for other women. She can get the same thrill of romance out of it (sort of) but with no risk to herself. She can sit back and enjoy the thrills with no letdowns because there is no competition. No risk, some of the same benefits, and no foreseeable cons == win.

Now, for the record, I'm a guy, and I don't like yuri, shoujo-ai, or lesbian porn (or any porn for that matter) for reasons that I will not get into here. My statements are made from observations I've made of others as well as of myself (back when I was intrigued and attracted to the whole girl/girl thing). So, please take my statements as observations for a fairly objective and impartial observer. I admit that I could be wrong, so I welcome any correction (with statements as to why) to my statements that anyone might have.
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