Forum - View topicNEWS: Uncertain State of the Anime Industry Profiled
|
Goto page Previous Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
LordRedhand
 Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
|
|||||||||
I'm asking a general question as to why there is this drive to see "Every anime now!" aspect when certainly there is bound to be several series that you(in general) will not like. And I'm not saying you should stick into specific genres and such, however there is a line that needs to be drawn somewhere of a show or type of show that you (in general) do not like. And that certainly wasn't the argument I was intending to make of "someone should just stay in their own genre." I was more going for "You should know what you like and choose carefully from those preferences. Willing to try new series if someone (like ANN reviews) recommends it that you trust." So for example if someone were to recommend an anime series that was a harem comedy and I trusted them then I'd be more willing to see it. Last edited by LordRedhand on Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
cool3865
 Posts: 770 Location: Austin, TX |
|
|||||||||
|
i dont think the industry will die, it might go back to the way it was during the 80's. Not alot of people making anime so they have to concentrate on the story line.
Same with it being brought over here, it won't be alot but the anime that is brought over here will be of quality. (okay somewhat, i remember some horrible anime being brought over here in the 80's and very early 90's) |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
cool3865
Posts: 770 Location: Austin, TX |
|
|||||||||
|
edit: it timed out once but still somehow went through
|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
babbo
Posts: 274 |
|
|||||||||
Scanslation is a whole different can of worms compared to fansubbing, at least state side. All the major bookstores that sell most of the manga allow people to read them for free in the store anyways. And that's on top of the simple fact that most people prefer reading something in printed format than on a computer.
this is silly. The point that was being made is that the demographics of people that buy dvds will not (especially during a recession) and have not changed because of fansubs. People that don't buy anime dvds are unlikely to do so even if fansubs did disappear off the face of the earth. Last edited by babbo on Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
walw6pK4Alo
 Posts: 9322 |
|
|||||||||
A lot of non-DVD buying fans will willingly shell out $100 for a good figure, which translates into direct sales to Japan, and not to the R1 Companies. I prefer it this way. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
|
|||||||||
So people who buy don't also buy all that merchandise you seem to think justifies the downloading of fansubs? We ONLY buy the dvds, & not the plushies, figures, etc.? So how do you explain the 4 sacks full of blind boxes I located in my daughter's room when I was cleaning this weekend? The rows of figures sitting obediantly in front of her monitor? Luffy staring down from a rack on the bathroom door? Calendars de-spined & hung as posters on her wall? A Batman (3rd Tim Burton) Trash can full of wall scrolls (at least 2 dozen)? Not to mention the 18 Seiya dolls (ranging in cost from $50-100) gracing my shelf? The 3 5-doll 3-inch sets carefully encased in plastic cases? The 3 boxes of figures released last year? The chess set? The stray DBZ, Naruto, InuYasha, Hoshin Engi, etc figures I have scattered around my office at work & home? Posters, calendars, wall scrolls. Does the Clamp magazine with the chess figures count as manga or figures? Why do fansub downloaders seem to believe they alone are buying this stuff? How will we NOT be affected if less anime is being made? Is this not what most of us who do not download have protested for yrs (that lacking money, less anime will be made)? |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
pparker
 Posts: 1185 Location: Florida |
|
|||||||||
Again, some people are like that, others aren't. So what. I leave the detailed study of human viewing habits to others.
Where in the rules does it say lines? That's a bit facetious, as I think I understand where you're going with it. But being a freedom-loving old hippie rebel, that wording just irks me.
Um, I do like end up liking some things and not others. But I won't have an opportunity to even make that distinction on a show if I don't watch it. Many start bad and end better, and worse, vice versa. Trailers for instance, are just commercials. No better indication of value to me than any other ad on TV, which is virtually none. I don't spend any time watching them. Although I said I don't rely on reviews, that's not strictly true for older R1 DVDs already past the fansub stage. In that case, I may impulse buy since there is a healthy market for resales of anime. My final cost is similar to renting if I don't like it enough to keep it for rewatch. But my primary way of choosing shows to buy is to watch them. Streams if they are available, fansubs if they are not. Most shows will never be released on R1 DVD anyway, and if I like it enough to rewatch, fansubs or downloadable episodes are the only way to "own" it. Streaming has broadened the legal means of viewing, and I suspect we'll reach a point of having nearly all anime available that way. It's still for me just a first viewing alternative unless downloads are offered. But bottom line, no I don't normally buy sight-unseen. That's just my behavior pattern. That is the U.S. live TV pattern, so not unusual. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
Unit 03.5-ish
Posts: 1540 Location: This space for rent |
|
|||||||||
Yes, curse those awful R1 companies for trying to turn a profit. How dare they make money from anime they have the legal distribution rights to for the R1 territories. 
parker: OK, let me present to you a hypothetical situation. Anime X is fansubbed and gets about 500,000 downloads. Around 200,000 of the downloads are by those broke kids. Now, once the series is licensed for R1, I seriously doubt that 200,000 will actually buy it, and just to add to that, 50,000 of the remaining downloaders don't plan to buy the series for any number of excuses. Out of 500,000 potential sales, that's 2 and a half out of 5 (I suck at math, so sue me) lost sales. See what I mean? |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
walw6pK4Alo
Posts: 9322 |
|
|||||||||
Pretty much. I know my money flows directly to Japan, and I find the merchandise more worth it than DVDs, so I believe it's a valid point. Especially in the case of buying Gunpla versus Gundam DVDs. It's only a matter of time until we get more of those 3-D printers, then we can download figures and models too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAt2xD1L8dw |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
Unit 03.5-ish
Posts: 1540 Location: This space for rent |
|
|||||||||
|
Except most people (myself included) don't think it's fair to import DVDs that cost $70 and then with import fees tacked on might be significantly more, especially with no subtitles and all of 2-3 episodes a disc. I don't get the hatred for R1 companies from some people (especially those gits at MyAnimeList); we should be kissing their asses for even bothering to give us the stuff, not condemning them for being SO EBUL and taking money away from the Japanese companies as you believe they do.
|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
LordRedhand
Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
|
|||||||||
Confused here, you trust reviews for older series but not for new ones? Aren't both equally credible? I understand the desire to purchase something that you have seen first, I was once at that point, but me being a person not wanting to go into fansubs but wanting to go deeper into the anime fandom I had a dilemma that needed to be solved, "How do I choose which anime I want to watch?" Starting with the easiest would be series I had seen parts of (like on G4's Gungrave and R.O.D) or try to find series similiar to series that I had already liked and seen (and therefore purchased) Even then my anime collection would not grow anywhere near as fast as it has, I had to have trust in someones opinion to answer the question "What's a good anime to watch/purchase?" I had a bad start with that process starting with forum users (Adult Swim no less) which while yes led me to series I liked also had given series that I found poor, therefore I moved to reviews from sites like ANN and anime on DVD so that they can take the really poor series and tell me what is a good buy, as it's their job too. Again using myself as an example, a series like Tweeny Witches is something I don't normally buy, I had watched series like it (Sailor Moon for anime and PPG for cartoons) but did not have any desire to purchase them after seeing them. So if I didn't read the reviews about Tweeny Witches, I really wouldn't consider purchasing volume 1 to view it. After volume 1 was purchased I liked the series enough to add it to my DVD collection to have the whole series. Also kinda going back to what I previously said, "How can a business sell you something if you have already fulfilled your need for it?" That's what fansubs do, they fulfill the same need that legitimate companies are also trying to fulfill with the same thing. So take any series you feel will never be released in the R1 market, ask yourself why they haven't yet? One of the reasons can be licensing issues, there is the demand to have everything the same, so music, voice acting, animation so on. Another is that the licensing company feels they can't make money off it anymore, simply because a free version of it exists and they feel that the market for it has "dried up" or has been fulfilled by fansubs. Last edited by LordRedhand on Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:36 pm; edited 3 times in total |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
Ashen Phoenix
 Posts: 2912 |
|
|||||||||
I couldn't agree with you more. I believe people need to recognize pirating as a crime and aggresively work to counter it. I know it'll prolly never go away entirely, but we as fans and consumers indeed should help to stem the overwhelming flow of fansubs and fanscans that are plaguing and ultimately hurting the industry the world over. We owe it to ourselves as well as the companioes that work so hard to bring these things to our shores and into our lives to enjoy. I emplore anyone who feels the same way, or is even considering jumpiung the fence from pirate "fan" to a genuine one (who, I myself was once amongst the former), please, please, please think of the industry workers who are losing their jobs, the manga creators who are being robbed, and indeed your fellow fans who are, in the long run, going to suffer for this widespread theft, because one day, there may come a time when not a single anime/manga compnay can support itself and thus, our beautiful little sub-culture will be crippled, and our tap to the land of the rising sun cut off. And I don't believe ANYONE wants to see anything even remotely like that come to pass. 
|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
Kit-Tsukasa
Posts: 930 |
|
|||||||||
You have know idea how much I dream of this. However, I don't see this coming anytime soon. It would save me $100 this summer + import cost, etc... for this sucker here: http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2009/03/05/black-rock-shooter-figure-a-dark-hatsune-miku/ On another note, if anime industries (US particularly) didn't charge so much for a stupid DVD of anime, let alone a box set, I would gladly support for the DVDs much more. However, due to the ridiculous amount these companies are selling them for, I'd rather import a complete box set of R2 Blu-ray for the same price or for pvcs.
depends on where you live. If your stupid sales tax isn't 10% then of course everything seems cheaper. But when your out in like California compared to Maryland or Massachusetts or even New Jersey, everything is not only more expensive, the sales tax make it hurt even more. I know this having bought stuff from many places now and the price difference and sales tax really hurts. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
Dante80
 Posts: 218 Location: Athens Greece |
|
|||||||||
It is typical for the industry to blame fansubs, piracy, fans, the pope, Santa Claus and the Martians for a situation that in a major part stems from their own bad practices. This happened in the past, is happening now, and will surely continue to exist in the future. Fansubs and downloading are but a small part of the real problem though. Anyone failing to acknowledge that is bound to lose the big picture. And the big picture is that a "buy physical media before you watch" business model is killing the licensing industry. Add to that the globalisation problems that stem from dividing the world into regions and denying access to countries unless there is enough profit to sustain a bulky non efficient sub license physical media model and you start to understand the magnitude of the real problem.
What has morality to do with this? Also, I'm not talking about myself, I'm talking about leechers that will download and watch fansubs because they can. If they can't, they will surely NOT pay the industry for an anime fix, they will just start downloading more non anime content. You fail to understand that many download only leechers are good for the industry because they provide more hype/excitement/noise about a title, but completely useless from an economics standpoint since the main reason they are into anime is because they can get it for free. It is very difficult to make profit out of this group, difficult but not impossible. I want to stress this out again. Saying that you cannot compete with free, is saying that you cannot compete at all. Moral and legal issues are completely irrelevant in this discussion.
You do not get it. Again, morality and legality have nothing to do with this problem. People download fansubs because they can. People support the industry because they want to. If people cannot download fansubs, they will not magically start wanting to support the industry. Loss of sales from people that would not buy anyway is not a loss under any circumstances. Also, about evolution and bussiness models, read again this very good comment from pparker:
This is what I'm talking about. I understand that due to this sites' demographic any discussion evolving the anime industry will degrade into a fansub debate. But this is getting ridiculous imo guys. Watch the big picture. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
Unit 03.5-ish
Posts: 1540 Location: This space for rent |
|
|||||||||
...The freeloaders are GOOD for the industry? OK, that's one of the most ridiculous arguments I've ever heard in defense of the bloodsuckers. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group