Forum - View topicLegal digital copy vs. DVD.
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RoverTX
 Posts: 424 |
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Here's my interesting quagmire that got me thinking about Legal Digital Copy VS DVDs.
I am having a little bit of a problem finding a DVD copy of Seasons 1 & 2 of Ghost in the Shell. Just not finding what I am looking for at the right price is the best way to put it. So I just found out that iTunes offers Ghost in the Shell Season's 1 & 2 for $50 each in digital copy form. Which surprisingly is cheaper then most major sites selling the DVDs (Rightstuf.com, Amazon, Bestbuy, ect). Great I think. The only problem is that..... 1. They don't have Japaneses with Subs (I like the Ghost in the Shell Dub a lot, its just nice to have the Japanese with Subs sometimes). 2. I don't know how to compare the picture quality to that of a DVD. 3. While I am not going to illegal distribute the show, what kind of protection do they have on it? How much would it restrict me in importing it into another kind of video archiving program? So while I was mulling over my option in my head I thought I might just bring the issues to you guys to see what you know on the subject, and what your opinions are on the subject. The subject being of course Legal Digital Copy (From any Source, Xbox Market Place, PS Network, iTunes, Funimation's Site ect) VS DVDs. On a side note, while on the subject of digital copy, at the moment I thinking of making digital back up copies of all my Anime (All of which was Legally Purchased) on a single tera bite hardrive. I am also still trying to find some quality software to do this. I have used Handbreak before for work, but its freeware so it has its limitations. Anyone know of any good, moderately priced software I could use instead? In addition, is what I am thinking of doing even legal? I have always been a little confused about that, as long as I don't distribute it I am fine right? |
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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Most likely, to keep the file size down.
I've found most digital downloads to be on par with DVD quality. However, you should see if you can determine maximum resolution of the file. If the max height is 300px, then it's not meant for TV viewing.
Given it's from Apple, expect it to be DRM encoded for its proprietary software. Meaning: no DVD burning.
I despise any streaming site which does not give me the option to burn the show to DVD, especially Apple who has been nefarious with its DRM and "without warning" shutdown of apps and videos. The problem we fans face is distribution, and until it changes, it will remain so. As it stands, certain companies purchase rights to distribute, some purchase rights to broadcast. DVD license owners are just now starting to see the benefits of streaming shows on the internet to boost sales. The DVD market is slowly shrinking, because we're now faced with a new audience in which there are two sides: One which wants DVDs and the other who wants the option to burn. For some reason, the plastic disk seems to give a sense of "ownership" which isn't the same as downloading a file. I don't understand this logic, but at the same time, I can't see why distributors can't work to give the entire audience what it wants. I would love to pay $20 for a 13/26 episode series in digital format with option to burn. It saves me the cost of finding it, huge mark-ups on plastic, and the additional mark-up from retailers. This pricing scheme would benefit everyone and increase sales across the board. It gives us the ability to own 2 series and it cuts significant costs to distributors. So why don't they do this? Distributors believe piracy will kill their business. Sadly, this is proven not to be true as "piracy" has never gone away yet business options have grown widely. We have more anime today than ever before, and this is despite people who rented anime VHS tapes and made copies as this was the only way to get titles in many places. Right now, I buy DVDs on sale. I view shows online, regardless if they're legal or not. I buy merchandise (the real anime bread winner) at full price to get it before it sells out. Just like anything, I'm a consumer. A deal makes me happy. But to be told I can't burn my legitimate copy of an episode from my hard drive to a DVD is insulting and I will never support such an industry. Because having to pay multiple times for the same damn content is insulting, greedy, and absolutely archaic in a digital era. PER YOUR SIDE NOTE: What you are doing is illegal. Per U.S. Copyright: Can I backup my computer software? Yes, under certain conditions as provided by section 117 of the Copyright Act. Although the precise term used under section 117 is “archival” copy, not “backup” copy, these terms today are used interchangeably. This privilege extends only to computer programs and not to other types of works. Under section 117, you or someone you authorize may make a copy of an original computer program if: * the new copy is being made for archival (i.e., backup) purposes only; * you are the legal owner of the copy; and * any copy made for archival purposes is either destroyed, or transferred with the original copy, once the original copy is sold, given away, or otherwise transferred. You are not permitted under section 117 to make a backup copy of other material on a computer's hard drive, such as other copyrighted works that have been downloaded (e.g., music, films). It is also important to check the terms of sale or license agreement of the original copy of software in case any special conditions have been put in place by the copyright owner that might affect your ability or right under section 117 to make a backup copy. There is no other provision in the Copyright Act that specifically authorizes the making of backup copies of works other than computer programs even if those works are distributed as digital copies. |
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TheTheory
 Posts: 1029 Location: Central PA |
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a physical copy has resale value, a digital copy doesn't. go physical. When is the last time you checked prices on those? The Anime Legends brick set for Ghost in the Shell: SAC season 1 is $50 regularly (currently in RightStuf's weekly sales for $27) I don't think that season 2 is in the Anime Legends edition yet, but once it is that'll be $50 as well.
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RoverTX
Posts: 424 |
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So according to the bold part I am going to jail for downloading my BoB Dylan songs to iTunes....... I am confused >.<? ------------
Oh nice. I last time I checked there they where out! I also just found season two at walmart.com for cheap! Though I am not sure how reliable that site is. I have heard horrible things about ordering from there..... Last edited by RoverTX on Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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RoverTX
Posts: 424 |
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Edited by RoverTX Merged with Post above after Admin's comment
Last edited by RoverTX on Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:04 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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JacobC
ANN Contributor
 Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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Digital copies are ALWAYS a bad idea, unless you get one for free because it came with a friends' DVD and they're being nice to you. If it's a movie you really like, you're STILL better off buying the DVD after that, even.
Distributors across the board are pushing for digital copies as opposed to hard copy because they think it's a starting point for the next step in video format. But it's really a bad idea. You lose your hard drive, you've lost your movie. License limitations make it difficult to play anywhere but on your computer, and even if you get past that, there is the matter of extra features, language tracks, etc. I mean, in terms of interlacing quality and amount of information in the package, we're ALMOST going back to the VHS days! Not to mention that a shift to digital as standard format would 100% enable piracy where it had been rampant already. No one would pay for anything. If I can rip copy protection from a DVD on my home computer with just a little effort, taking encryption off an already digitized file...I could sneeze and it's done. -.-' Kinda like how text messaging is a great idea for some things, but people who treat it like the next step in communication and break their thumbs off using it...geez. It's SUCH a step backward. Use it for quick messages or when you otherwise can't talk. Texting back and forth in primitive leet speek all day when you could be actually speaking to the other person drives me nuts. [/rant] Yeah, I bought the whole series of GitS for $20 recently, so search around. Even if digital copies were cheaper though, they wouldn't be worth it. |
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jel123
Posts: 108 |
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IANAL but I don't think you would go to jail as this would be a civil and not a criminal offense. The copyright holders (or their agent) could sue you for each copy unless apple or your PC manufacturer is paying royalties on your hardware. The EFF has a good article on this subject. Welcome to the modern world where everyone is in violation of something. |
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RoverTX
Posts: 424 |
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Edited by RoverTX Merged with Post below after Admin's comment
Last edited by RoverTX on Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:04 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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RoverTX
Posts: 424 |
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How does fair use fit into all this? I keep hearing that fair use covers making copies for your own personal use but I just don't see it.
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The dimension for the iTunes TV shows are 640X352 (There wide screen). Anyone know how this compares exactly to your average anime DVD? Last edited by RoverTX on Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Pork Cracklins
 Posts: 34 |
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I’ve never seen the point of digital copies, like when they advertise that a DVD comes with a digital copy, like it’s some kind of selling point. Why should I care? Why would I want the same movie twice? Of course that’s just me, I'm a collector, I like physically owning a disc, and I only watch stuff on my TV, so a digital copy is meaningless to me, but I can see how other people may find them convenient. As for buying digital copies of TV shows and movies off of iTunes and the like, I’ll never do it, again I see no point and I won’t feel like I own anything. It’s just with a digital copy I’d feel like somebody else has too much control over something I paid for and that’s just not gonna fly. I really, really hope digital copies don’t become the standard.
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18201 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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RoverTX, that's twice in this thread that you have consecutive-posted to respond to different comments. That practice is not acceptable except in special cases (and these aren't); just use a single post for both replies.
As for the subject of the thread, I pretty much agree with JesuOtaku. Legit digital copies have their uses and advantages, but they are more vulnerable and have just as many limitations as DVD copies do (albeit of entirely different kinds). I do kinda like the idea of digital copies coming with hard copies, though. It's a big boon with RPG books and school textbooks, for instance. |
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Sloober
Posts: 58 Location: Wisconsin |
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It's not much different. The only time the quality will be any notably better is if it's specifically a high resolution copy/blu ray. Regular TV/dvd can be though of as simply 480i, which is roughly what you have there. Your quality gain is really if you have an all digital tv/dvd/cpu hookup as opposed to an analog one, and i'd assume that if you're downloading shows you have access to something similar. For me, both my computer/TV and DVD player/TV hookups are digital, so there's no quality difference. I was simply amazed at the difference switching from my PS2/3part to my DVD/5part on my bigscreen when i first got it. Watching some of my older stuff and seeing how much cleaner it appeared was impressive. I really don't see a reason not to offer both digital and hard copies though. Some people dig one more than the other and in either case, more sales. You can already find digital copies if you know where/how to look, but offering them right off the bat might discourage some initial piracy, of course, i doubt that it's going to be the end all of the piracy. However if you go the digital route, i'd suggest something like a 3rd party hard drive, if you will, rather than storing it locally. You can buy some tight externals that offer a lot of space for a decent cost now, and either use it as a backup to your primary drives or as a main one. I put all my MP3s on both my home PC locally and on a portable drive i take to work or to others' computers.
I am definitely with you on that one - it also gives you a sense of scale as to how much you really own and if you should like.. cut back  This also reminds me that I really need an additional DVD shelf now since mine are looking double filled!
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RoverTX
Posts: 424 |
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Thanks exactly the answer I was looking for in regards to that question!
I have a big Tera bite drive I use for my iTunes folder and general back up. I also highly recommend this, and if I remember correctly even apple sells software that allows you to back up iTunes on externals hard drives (in other words its perfectly, and clearly, ok to do so) -------------------
Sorry wont do it again, my mistake.
I wouldn't agree with digital copy being more vulnerable. I know that iTunes allows for back ups as long as you use up one of your authorizations for the back up (you have 5 with iTunes), and I am sure the other digital services offer something similar. |
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7985 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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Digital, intangible, things can never ever compete with physical objects in my book, so logically I'd have to go with DVD.
As you mentioned a hard copy DVD is bilingual. This is an essential thing for me as I really hate not being given a choice. Secondly audio quality is a big factor I can't produce as nice a sound on my computer as my 5.1 surround sound system can boom out. Then there's the aesthetic value, there's nothing like have wall full of anime DVDs to greet you in the morning. Lastly most of digital players suck pretty bad especially the Quicktime plug in for iTunes. It produces really unreliable choppy and buggy video quality. Those are the main reason in my book although there's also minor issues like the fact my TV is a lot bigger than my computer monitor and or the fact that sitting in somputer chair is not that comfortable. For what it's worth Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex is worth every penny of what you pay for it, it's a phenomenal series and one of my favorites. |
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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All the DVDs that I buy I trans-code using mencoder into x264/vorbis matroska files (quality based encode).
This works extremely well, and I view most everything I watch off my encodes. I have redundant hard drive backups which I synchronize periodically due to prior issues. I don't trust discs because they aren't designed to last, especially not with scratches/etc. Dust in environment here is very high, so backing up is important to maintenance and little use means less likelihood of me damaging the discs. With matroska I get to keep as many audio tracks as I want (2, unless there is a good commentary track), and x264 has very good quality->file-size ratio. I do lose out on surround sound converting audio to vorbis (which I don't have to do really), but I don't have a really great speaker arrangement so that doesn't bother me much. I'd accept legal digital copies if they were not DRM encumbered and matched the video quality of the encodes I'm able to do myself and were dual audio with subtitles with reasonable file-size. Unfortunately ,while others here appear to be saying that the quality is comparable I've certainly not seen that. I downloaded from Amazon some of the unbox episodes that were free and they were not very good. The file-size was out of whack, only one audio channel was there, and the quality of the video was mediocre. I haven't used any other legal services except for the streaming ones (which are meh, but ok to watch with), but thus far the industry really has a lot to learn about the process when even I beat them. Good fansub groups totally own them with the karaoke effects and nice soft-text subs to replace the vobsubs. (Yes, there are groups that use bad fonts, but I've found them to be few and far between, and I avoid those I know are bad). The video quality of fansubs and file-size is also very good from those higher quality groups who are using a good source. If the legal services would just use the same tools that would be great. |
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