Forum - View topicChicks On Anime - Copyright Enforcement
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LordRedhand
 Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
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Harm comes in because you are not respecting the license holders and creators wishes in how they want to release their show. For example say that I work out the rights to make an anime series and promise to release it, but the original copyright holder dies. It's is now my imperative to release the series as the contract was written or what I promised to do (say make an anime series and release it on DVD as a traditional example) Now if I wish to change the story or to change the release model from what I promised him I'm doing wrong and in the case of the changing the release model I would then have to go to his/her estate and ask them permission to do so.
So we can accept that we have to pay for products, and that we have to pay for services, so what makes entertainment different? How am I respecting the people that make the series when I disrespect the methods that they bring it to me? You know when I encountered this close to home, when my brother showed me his fansub downloads there was 2 things I asked him to do: 1. Buy or legally view or renting all that you took, regardless of whether you liked the series or not because you viewed a series in a way that disrespects people and you need to correct it. 2. Quit watching fansubs, cold turkey. So I'd say he is recovering nicely, that he has now picked up series because he has confidence in himself to buy a series without seeing it first (Code Geass, Moribito, Green Green, Girls High, Emma, and more.) Has bought 20+ series that he would not have that he claimed he "really liked" that he would not have if I didn't give him that ultimatum. Remember my complaint is not the consequences of the action, take this conversation for example, if I felt that the consequences of my action would not do good because others will not listen and they do not want to hear my criticism or praise for an action, that that is irrelevant, then I'm doing something morally wrong and cannot do so. My philosophy is action based so for me the action of speaking out, to criticize within reason, to make it known and explain my position, and how I came to my conclusion allows me to praise or criticize an act and to be right in doing so. So now who is stifling debate and speech the person who say people should be held accountable for their actions or the person saying they should be held accountable for the consequences of their actions. |
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edzieba
Posts: 704 |
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Given that: a) the consequences of watching a fansub and then buying the series is NO DIFFERENT AT ALL to reading a review and buying the series, or seeing the box art and buying the series and b) There are several people who, anecdotally, have said that without fansubs they would NOT have bought several series and c) So far not one person has said that they have watched a fansub and not brought a DVD because they already had the fansub, and NOT because they watched the show and deemed it something they did not want. Therefore: Your doctrine of not previewing series via fansubs may actually be detrimental to anime purchasing, using the anecdotal sample of posters in this thread. And with the ANN forums being quite vocally anti-fansub, that's pretty significant.
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draco_nite
Posts: 29 |
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The problem that I have with buying anime is the fact that I really don't want to give my money to someone who will use that money to ruin a series with a crappy dub. Also, I don't want to have to wait forever for something to come out in the US.
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littlegreenwolf
 Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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The whole "they did a dub I didn't like so they ruined the show" excuse is perhaps one of the most idiotic and pointless excuses I have yet heard in the defense against not buying anime. I rarely listen to dubs, but that doesn't stop me from buying the dvd because I get the original Japanese version with subtitles. The show isn't "ruined" just because I have a dub option if I decide to switch over the audio. I'm not going to say I don't watch fansubs, because I do, especially when it's a series I like, but I BUY the shows I liked enough to download the whole series to because it's what is RIGHT (animators need to eat too), it's nice to have a hard copy, it stimulates the economy while at the same time promotes more anime to be produced, and most important of all: It looks so pretty on my shelf. |
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draco_nite
Posts: 29 |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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I'm not sure why this thread has become a magnet for bizarre stupidity like this, but it might be time to shut it down. |
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chrisc1978
 Posts: 363 |
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I agree, people keep saying the same thing over again. |
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draco_nite
Posts: 29 |
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You could just say that nobody's forcing me to watch the dub. That's true. However, let me say this. I found that the reason that I did not enjoy anime for a long time was because I could not stand the ridiculous voices. These DVDs usually have the dub as the default feature, and someone who, say, is just starting to watch anime might be turned off to it because the voices are stupid. I find that the reason people actually can't get interested in anime is because they only show crappy dubs on TV, and they find the voices to be...bad. |
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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First, your argument assumes people are stupid when it comes to operating their DVD players. Options are plentiful, which gives everyone a choice. Hell, a person can even watch it in native Japanese with no subtitles if they so choose to. Second, the voice characterizations is an extremely poor excuse as I have found some Japanese voicing characterizations to be much worse than the English dub counterpart. This comes down to the point of personal opinion to the anime series. By your logic, people who don't like irritating voices wouldn't be watching the series regardless what method they choose to view it. I couldn't care less how people watch it. As I see it, I don't mind paying to allow others to watch. It's just the way I am. To the artist, who truly cares about the passions of what they put into a series, not watching it is more of an insult than not buying it. We're just debating on how to pay them for their services of delivering us their works, which judging by the replies in this thread, is never going to be agreed upon by everyone. So, I'll continue buying the stuff I want, people will continue viewing fan sub sites, and workers will still toil long hours with insulting wages to compensate. It'll remain this way until change is made, because the current system is failing everyone. Everyone. |
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krelyan
Posts: 173 Location: Utah |
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You might be onto something if it weren't for the fact that 7/10 top ten best selling anime titles all aired on TV (and the other three had previous commercial tie-ins). 
And for those arguing that digital distribution = $0.00 cost. Tell that to Google. Analysts Estimate YouTube's Losses At $470M This Year. If their estimates are indeed accurate, Youtube doesn't even generate enough revenue to cover bandwidth costs. |
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Leader 190
Posts: 4 Location: Karachi, Pakistan |
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Hi guys, Regarding the FUNimation interview, I'm a bit disappointed. I mean FUNimation is not giving us any ray of hope for international viewers. I would definitely watch the Anime episodes on FUNimation's website but as we all know FUNimation only allows North American residents. FUNimation Entertainment has done a great job in my country, Pakistan, by letting us watch Dragon Ball Z on Cartoon Network then they also should let us Pakistanis to watch the episodes on their website. I am double-hearted about fan subs. One part I totally love them but on the other hand I so much hate them. So its kind of confusing for me Pakistani Otakus.
Well, anyway a round of applause on their video website and maybe FUNimation might consider international viewers in the near future. Thank You, LEADER !90 |
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MisterH
Posts: 30 |
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They'd rather sell 90 DVDs with both tracks and have 10 "lost sales", than possibly sell 90 DVDs with both tracks, 1 with just the subbed track at a cheaper price, and have 9 "lost sales". (If sub only versions still seem unreasonable, scale it up to Naruto/Bleach level sales, although I suppose 1% is always 1%....and yes, saying they'd prefer any lost sales is purely for satirical purposes.) Last edited by MisterH on Fri May 08, 2009 12:45 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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The content remains $0. Operating costs, however, have never been in dispute. There is a cost to run a service like YouTube. But you should read the article more closely. Since you missed it, let me point it out to you: "Spangler also noted that content licensing accounts for 36% of YouTube's expenses, and judging from recent developments in the UK and Germany, the organization's not having much luck on that front." Read that carefully. This is been my argument from day 1 that ad revenue can not make up the cost against licensing fees. 36%, of $1 million, is $360,000 a day YouTube/Google must pay out to distribute content based on a licensing system, even if that licensed material is not viewed. So, not only does the entertainment industry not have to pay YouTube to use its services, they force YouTube to pay them. If you don't see the idiocy in this, then all hope is lost on educating anyone the problem with "copyright". |
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LordRedhand
Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
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But it is the artist right and the copyright holder right to distribute their goods, licensing the music puts money back in the system to keep it going, so even you $0.00 has to have someone putting money into it to keep it going and if it isn't going to be you the customer it has to be someone else, in this case YouTube is paying the cost of your model. I can also point to SpiralFrog
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-10200722-93.html http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-10201355-93.html So this $0.00 value thing might need some revision. |
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Dante80
 Posts: 218 Location: Athens Greece |
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Noone said that digital distribution had $0.00 cost. There is a cost to everything. Now, imagine youtube having to use physical media for its services. Can you give me an estimate on the difference in cost needed to distribute their content in DVDs worldwide? |
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