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PetrifiedJello



Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 3782
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 6:19 pm Reply with quote
FaytLein wrote:
But how did Apple acquire the song?

Given that 90% (if not more) of Apple's "offerings" are label owned, this question should be easy to answer.

Now, for the rest of your reply. Rarely does Apple cut a check to the artist. It goes to the distributor. I can not speculate what the deal between Apple and the labels are to track revenues, royalties, etc.

Your analogy about the low cost can also be applied when that amount increases beyond a point consumers aren't willing to buy it. The latest news coming from iTunes should be quite clear. While revenues are up (duh!), sales are down.

Eventually, revenues will begin to drop as well when more consumers flee the overpriced store. This new pricing scheme was to include songs for $0.69, and look how that turned out. Not a single one can be found.

You need to remember the label is the middle man between Apple and the artist. Instead of looking at it "per transaction", look at it as sums of wholes, because that's exactly what happens.

It matters not if it's CDs, ad revenues, etc. The whole is split by the labels to pay the artists.

Your "what if" scenario regarding placing songs on other websites for $0 is no different than what's happening now. Music is the most downloaded format regarding entertainment. There is absolutely no stopping this.

So, the question remains: If a site is giving it away for free, doesn't it make more sense to at least compete with a lower cost product rather than a higher one? If anything, this will push more people to those other sources, ditching iTunes altogether.

Consumers aren't stupid, and as long as the entertainment industry thinks they are, well, it'll be a while before they stop whining about piracy without spending a dime to give customers better options.

After all, once they sued the crap out of Napster, they wasted no effort to adapt the mp3 model for their own uses. So, in the decades these companies existed, why is it they never spent money to adapt technology like the mp3?

Oh, right, because greed totally sucks man. Totally.
Wink

For those who say "make a statement with your wallet", I want to say I haven't bought a CD since the 90s, and I've never bought an mp3 song (I ripped my CD collection, which I already paid for. I'm sure as hell not going to buy it again).

And what statement did my decision make? "Let's raise songs to $1.30 because Petrified Jello isn't buying any!"

Enjoy the price increase, suckers.
Very Happy
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 9322
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 6:30 pm Reply with quote
Ripping CDs to your computer for your own personal use is illegal and you're worse than a child rapist/murderer. Or at least that's how the RIAA would want it. When I saw the price increase for iTunes, I laughed. Yeah, okay, they're introducing 69cents, but no record label would go for that.
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edzieba



Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 704
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 7:00 pm Reply with quote
FaytLein wrote:
Now then, if by recording on that $1000 computer is going to equal what we get on CDs currently, then the cost has dropped since then, but still, you have to sell at a price to offset the price of the computer.
I grabbed the $1000 dollar figure form the current price of the Macbook, because those seem to be the in thing for musicians nowadays. If you used your existing PC (and there's really no reason you couldn't do the whole thing on an old Pentium II), your only cost is the soundcard. Something simply like the UA5 will do pretty much anything you need, is about $200, and will net you quality above that of a CD (up to 24-bit/96kHz) giving plenty of rooms for effects. If you're willing to settle for CD quality, or are only going to be distributing lossy MP3s, you could probably find a sound card for well under $100 that would do the job well.
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FaytLein



Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Posts: 1260
Location: Williamsburg, VA
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 7:49 pm Reply with quote
PetrifiedJello wrote:
So, the question remains: If a site is giving it away for free, doesn't it make more sense to at least compete with a lower cost product rather than a higher one? If anything, this will push more people to those other sources, ditching iTunes altogether.


How can you compete with something when it is given away for free?

Say you are going to go buy a 79 cent cheesburger. Now, on your way to the restaurant, there is a guy in a cart giving them away for free. Now you were ready to put down 79 cents for the burger, but right there, in front of your eyes is a free burger. Is it the same quality as the 79 cent one? Maybe. But its free, no strings attached, and you can take as many as you want.

Do you take the single 79 cent burger, or do you take the three free ones?

Let's say you go get the three free ones. And every day you go back, the man in the cart is still giving them away. So, eventually you stop going to the restaurant and continue to go to the free cart. Now does this effect the restaurant? Probably not...in the long run. Now lets say you tell two friends about the cart. They tell two, and those people tell two and so on and so on. Now there is a massive demand for free burgers. How can the restaurant now continue to exist? They can drastically drop prices in an attempt to compete, but just because price has dropped doesn't mean their costs have dropped. And if you sell under your cost for too long, the business goes belly up.

I suppose the real question I am wondering is that at what point do consumer wants override the value of other people's goods or services?
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PetrifiedJello



Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 3782
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 8:19 pm Reply with quote
FaytLein wrote:
How can you compete with something when it is given away for free?

*ahem* free legal streaming website, anyone?
Wink

But I'll skip that. FaytLein, take the cost of a digital component to $0. What's left to pay for?

The scope of this entire thread comes down to that answer.

FUNimation says to enjoy the content, you gotta pay. That's what people believe.

But let's take a different approach:
Me: FUNimation, what are you doing to target those who will never buy a DVD?
FUNimation: Well, we're late to the game, but check out our streaming websites.

Me: But what about those who don't want dubbed content?
FUNimation: Well, er, um...

Me: Okay, scrap that. What incentives do you incorporate to even try to get people to buy?
FUNimation: Well, er, um...

Me: Nevermind. How about taking the iTunes approach to allow people to download the shows on a per episode charge?
FUNimation: Well, er, um...

Me: Well, then stop your damn whining about fan sub sites.
Very Happy



Quote:
But its free, no strings attached, and you can take as many as you want.

Does it come with fries? Drink? A hot apple pie?
If you're doing this on a per burger model, then yes, people will take them. However, McD's will still rake in profits because they service other items not available via the burger cart.



Quote:
Do you take the single 79 cent burger, or do you take the three free ones?

Neither. I don't do burgers.
Razz
Will McD's lose customers against this? Yes. But will they suffer? No.
Because McD's, just as it does against all the other burger joints, has to entice the customer to get you to buy from them.
Competition 101 in business, my friend.

Quote:
They can drastically drop prices in an attempt to compete.

Actually, no, they wouldn't. What happens when a market is saturated with low cost goods? Eventually, there's no way to make a profit to "compete". The solution: Make a better burger, or get out of the burger business and focus on fish sandwiches.

FaytLein, a business that never innovates dies (unless they get a gov't bailout *ahem*). Just ask buggy whip makers in the days of old who believed this "horseless carriage" would never take off.

Instead of adapting, they were made extinct. Serves them right.

Quote:
I suppose the real question I am wondering is that at what point do consumer wants override the value of other people's goods or services?

If this had a definite answer, businesses would be happy. But it can't be answered. It changes daily. What's hot today can go cold tomorrow. A business must remain ahead of the curve and keep people buying to stay alive.

Some ideas will work. Some won't. But to remain stagnant is instant death. And copyright is entitling businesses to remain stagnant, rather than innovate, and each deserves to fail for it.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 9:06 pm Reply with quote
PetrifiedJello wrote:


The scope of this entire thread comes down to that answer.

FUNimation says to enjoy the content, you gotta pay. That's what people believe.

But let's take a different approach:
Me: FUNimation, what are you doing to target those who will never buy a DVD?
FUNimation: Well, we're late to the game, but check out our streaming websites.

Me: But what about those who don't want dubbed content?
FUNimation: Well, er, um...

Me: Okay, scrap that. What incentives do you incorporate to even try to get people to buy?
FUNimation: Well, er, um...

Me: Nevermind. How about taking the iTunes approach to allow people to download the shows on a per episode charge?
FUNimation: Well, er, um...

Me: Well, then stop your damn whining about fan sub sites.
Very Happy


UGH.

A hypothetical conversation you wrote with someone who isn't here to actually answer your questions where you make yourself look like a wise sage and the other party look like a bumbling fool.

Just a tip, nobody has ever been able to pull that off without looking like a huge douche.

Related:



Also, this thread has become the "PetrifiedJello beats everyone over the head again and again with his personal thesis on how the anime industry should operate" 1-stop shop and frankly that's pretty worthless, so T-minus 10 minutes 'till lockdown.
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Annf



Joined: 20 Feb 2009
Posts: 578
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 9:37 pm Reply with quote
PJ should at least do a little research first.

Funimation episode download store with Japanese and English audio selections:
http://www.funimation.com/f_index.cfm?page=vod
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