Forum - View topicDoes aftertaste affect your rating?
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Cam0
 Posts: 4890 |
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I often seem to get this aftertaste from many animes that cause me to doubt how I've rated the show here in ANN. An example: I rated the first season of Birdy the Mighty: Decode excellent and the 2nd season very good. However after some time had passed since I had seen the show I started to doubt my judgement. Many time I've thought about flipping over the ratings making 1st season very good and 2nd excellent. I seem to recall the more impactful (is this even a word?) moments of the 2nd season while thinking it's bad moments weren't as bad, although they were.
It seems like my memory seems to highlight the good moments of the anime while the bad moments don't seem to feel as bad as I thought they were when I watched the series. This seems to happen backwards aswell. Like with the 1st season of Birdy the Mighty: Decode or some other anime I sometimes can't recall what was so good about that particular anime and start doubting whether it deserves the rating I initially gave it to. Does this happen to you? Last edited by Cam0 on Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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nobahn
 Subscriber Posts: 5120 |
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Sometimes.
When that happens, I will -- if possible/practical -- seek out the series and rewatch it. I have changed my subjective criteria for rating anime. At first, I tried to take into account how others might feel about the anime. Then, when I learned from a moderator about some of the statistical controls that ANN employs, I went by how well I felt that the descriptors of the various ratings/rankings described just how I felt about the anime in question. Now, when rating an anime, I will first decide on weather the "base" rating should be "neutral" (i.e., 6) or "postive" (i.e., 9). Then I will bump the rating up or down, depending upon how I feel. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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All the time, it's a perfectly natural and normal process.
For me, I usually overrate Anime initially and then have to go back and change my rating. That's because it is often hard to gain proper perspective straight after watching something. Sometimes I do get it right first time, often I don't. If I really liked a work I might rate it too highly because I let my personal enjoyment cloud my judgement, forcing me to then go back and change the rating at a later date. Or I might rate a work I hated too harshly and then have to re-evaluate the rating based on the work's actual merits rather than my feelings towards it. There's also the issue of gaining new insight into a work after it has finished. This insight can be negative or positive, as you may realise (through other people or a simple re-watch) that it was better or worse than you originally thought. For example, thinking that a show was bad only to re-watch it and gain a better understanding of what's going on and all of the details and hidden layers that you missed. Or thinking that a movie was great only for someone else to point out the plot holes that you had overlooked. So yeah, there's nothing to be ashamed of with admitting that your initial grade was wrong and fixing it. After all, what are discussion threads for if not to provide insight to those who want it? |
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Kelly
Posts: 868 Location: New York City |
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I have no idea how old you are, CamO, but if you're young your maturity level and tastes are likely changing at a rapid pace. Something you loved a few years ago might not seem quite as stellar now, or, conversely, something you were too young to "get" at the time might be much more appealing now. Also, your opinions might change as you're exposed to more anime and get a better idea of what's out there. I've changed a very few rankings from my early days with more experience under my belt, but not many. I think that's likely because I'm a little different from what I imagine are the majority on this forum in that I came to anime relatively late, as in post-college, and therefore at an age when my tastes already weren't changing as much as younger fans. (I also count my fandom as beginning when I started watching anime with awareness of what is was, and not the Battle of the Planets, Voltron etc. runs my brother and I watched when we were little without knowing what they were).
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7986 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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Not exactly, but I will lower the rating because I saw the ending and was somehow unsatisfied, like if it did not tie up loose ends or was more than my depression quota. I will sometimes be rewatching a show and decide the existing rating I gave it needs to be bumped up or down and make the appropriate adjustments. Otherwise, I have perfect confidence in my own ability to rate things most of the time, but reserve the right to change it as I see fit. I also make lots of use out of the comment category next to the rating in My Anime, explaining my thoughts on the series after I finish it or doing some general commenting, so if I want to know why such as such got that rating I can often read it in my own words and go "Oh yeah, that's why".
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Errinundra
Moderator
 Posts: 6535 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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I re-rate anime all the time. There are a number of reasons why I might do so.
1. Like dtm42 I have a tendency to overrate anime, particularly movies, after the first viewing. Subsequent reflection can steer me past the initial enthusiasm. This happens much less with TV series as I don't rate them until I have completed them, thus giving me more time to explore my feelings and reactions. 2. Re-watchability is an important factor for me, whether the entire series or movie, favourite episodes or stand-out scenes. This, of course, cannot be measured after the first viewing, although I may have an inkling. Examples where I increased the rating because of re-watchability have been Noir, The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, Angel Beats! and Spice and Wolf. Examples of downgrading due to a lack of its rewatchability have been Death Note and, surprisingly for me, Gankutsuou: the Count of Monte Cristo. 3. Reading or hearing other people's opinions can influence me. This doesn't mean I have a herd mentality. People can help me see things I've missed or help me think more clearly about my own opinions. A good example is Tim Henderson's ANNau review of Mardock Scramble. Thanks to that review I realised I had glossed over a serious shortcoming in the film in my enthusiasm for other elements. If you're interested you can read my response to his review here. I have to say I was chuffed by Tim's response to my post. Anyway, I have since downgraded my rating for the film. 4. As I watch more anime I am getting to know the tropes and stylistic approaches better and better. When I started out I found things like the pointy concave noses, the face faults and body distortions, the animation shortcuts and the fanservice repellant. That last aside, I barely notice these things now, even if I do appreciate anime with high production standards. I understand concepts like moe much better and can appreciate it when it's done well. That means that I can now appreciate something I disliked early in my anime watching career. An example is my upgrading of Neon Genesis Evangelion. You can read my thoughts here. An opposite, but related, syndrome may occur with those anime I loved in the early days. They may have seemed amazing then, but are much less remarkable when viewed against a larger pool of titles. 5. I have seen quite a few anime via some dreadful fansubs. I'm talking marginal resolutions here. Later re-viewings can help me appreciate things I just couldn't see first time around. A good example is FLCL. I suspect I might upgrade Martian Successor Nadesico and The Vision of Escaflowne if I had the opportunity to see them via DVD. Similarly, while I own Princess Mononoke on DVD I could see myself upgrading if ever I have the opportunity of seeing it at the cinema. 6. Now this one may seem odd to people. I make sure that my rankings follow a normal probability distribution with the peak mid way between good and decent. If my ratings mean the bell curve is skewed in one direction, I will adjust ratings to even it out. I work on this general principle: a) number of masterpiece ratings = number of weak ratings (with each about 5% of the total) b) excellent = not very good c) very good = so-so d) good = decent e) decent > so-so > not very good > weak > bad > awful f) worst ever = 0 (I do not presume to have seen the worst ever anime) After 307 complete anime I have the following distribution: Masterpiece = 15 Excellent = 24 Very Good = 40 Good = 69 Decent = 69 So-so = 40 Not real good = 24 Weak = 15 Bad = 8 Awful = 3 I have deliberately skewed my rankings towards the higher scales because I believe that my selection process means that I tend to watch better quality anime. Now, say the I rate the next two anime I watch as very good. I will then re-asses all anime I have rated as very good and move the "worst" one into the good bracket. I then move the worst good title into the decent bracket and the worst decent title into the so-so bracket. I will now have 41 ranked very good and 41 ranked so-so. I justify this on the bases that any ranking system is relative by its nature and that the bottom ranked anime in one rating is only marginally better than the top ranked anime in the rating below. An anime that is good in a field of ten titles may only be decent in a field of one hundred. One benefit of the process is that it constantly makes me review my judgements on the anime I have seen. Phew. I hope that was worth the read for people. Last edited by Errinundra on Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:49 am; edited 1 time in total |
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marie-antoinette
 Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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Definitely. I will change my ratings, in fact I was just doing it for my manga ratings the other day, though in that case one of the ranking changes was due to me finally reading the last volume of xxxHolic and deciding it was bad enough to warrant knocking my rating down a peg. With anime, I generally try not to rate a show until I've at least seen it all. But I have also moved rankings up on re-watch, which I did for Puella Magi Madoka Magica.
But tastes change. I try not to rank anything too high unless I think it really deserves it, which is why for masterpiece I only have 3 anime and 3 manga. I also only give the awful ranking to things that really deserve it. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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I've often thought about doing that, and spent the last few years mulling over the system. However, I have refrained from doing so for a couple of reasons: First of all it is a lot of work. A heck of a lot of work, and I'm one lazy bugger. Secondly, and more importantly, forcing ratings up and down simply to match an artificial and unnatural curve means that some titles will be forced into a grade they don't belong simply to keep your distribution happy. That's bull. In your example you would drop Anime from one level to the next, but what if you shouldn't have dropped the worst Good title to Decent? What if the worst Good title was still objectively a Good title, no matter how close it was to the best Decent title? Despite your nicely ordered bell curve - or should I say, because of it - for certain titles your ratings do not reflect your actual opinion and judgement of said titles. And although Anime ratings are indeed relative to one another - Excellent will always be higher than Very Good and lower than Masterpiece - ratings also represent absolute values. The absolute, objective quality of the title in question. You shouldn't change a fixed value simply to balance out your curve, that's just weird. But hey, at least you've shown me why I was wrong to even consider using such a method. |
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Errinundra
Moderator
Posts: 6535 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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But, dtm42, you are are a self-proclaimed objectivist while I am a relativist. To me a masterpiece is something that fits into the top 5% (or thereabouts) where you have some unspecified "objective" criteria for masterpiece that you are never able to elucidate. In fact, in your own "my anime" you write, "these grades are nevertheless in flux as I constantly reassess my standards", which tells me that you don't actually have clearly defined criteria, making your ratings as subjective as mine. Just admit it: you're a closet relativist.
Under my system I can look you in the face and honestly say that everything I have rated as "masterpiece" is better than anything I have rated as "excellent"; everything I have rated as "excellent" is better than anything I've rated as "very good"; and so on and so forth. Not everthing within the one ranking are equal. Of those I've marked as "excellent", some are just a smidgeon short of "masterpiece" while others are barely better than "very good". Also, after setting up, my system isn't a lot of work. Given that I started the process early in my anime watching career, it never was much work. Last edited by Errinundra on Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:40 am; edited 2 times in total |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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You say that if something fits in the top ~5% then it is a Masterpiece. But is that the top 5% of what you've seen, or the top 5% of all Anime ever made? The two are not the same, unless the Anime you've seen is a spot-on accurate representation of everything that's been made. And why 5%? I could make reasonable arguments for 1%, or 10%. Isn't using a fixed percentage just arbitrary?
By the way, thank you for pointing out the error in the preface to my Seen All list, I've now fixed it. And I don't mean that in a sarcastic way. That preface was written back in the day (as in, years ago) when I was rating based on my personal preferences and standards. However, I have long since learned that personal opinions are not all that useful (both for myself and anyone else who reads the list). So for the past few years I have been rating based on objectivity alone, unless it is a Comedy (humour is mostly inherently subjective) whereby I will let my preferences have a partial say. I just forgot to change the preface to reflect all this. That said, even now my ratings are still in a state of flux. As a single person with his own biases and idiosyncrasies I often don't know what the correct rating to give is. Therefore, at least half my ratings will change at least once, not because the Anime got better or worse but because my knowledge, analytical ability and perspective all improved which helped me to get closer to what the truth actually is. Just because I have an opinion after watching something doesn't mean that opinion is correct. Just because I think I know what to rate something doesn't mean I got it exactly right first time. After all, a Masterpiece is a Masterpiece, no matter what anyone says. If I said Usagi Drop was a pile of crap then I'd be wrong. if I said it was pretty good then I'd still be wrong. If I'm wrong first time then I'll keep on analysing my ratings until I get it right. Even if I think I have it right I might realise later on that I didn't have it right, and therefore I'll still change the rating. I certainly don't pretend that I have all the answers or that I should have the only say if something is good or not. (This is aimed at those people out there who accuse me of trying to dictate what is good or bad. It's actually the other way around; the truth dictates what my view is.) |
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Errinundra
Moderator
Posts: 6535 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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Of course my 5% figure is arbitrary. I'm very comfortable with that. I also think your selection criteria is arbitrary, even if you don't, dtm42. And, because I believe my rankings are subjective, then it makes absolute sense that it is 5% of what I have seen. It can be no other way. In any case, see my comments below about cream rising to the top.
Changing my rating of an anime does not necessarily mean that I've changed my opinion of it. I recently dropped Full Metal Alchemist from very good to good, principally because lately I've seen quite a lot of superior shows. I haven't dropped my opinion of FMA; I've raised the bar of what it takes to be very good. I would still recommend FMA with the same enthusiasm I have in the past; I will still criticise the first two episodes with the same venom I did in the recent Best First Episode Tournament. Let's take an anime that we agree is a masterpiece: Usagi Drop. I give it that rating even though it falls away in the last couple of episodes. Forgive me if I'm wrong but I think you have made the same observation yourself. Clearly, for both of us, masterpiece =/= flawless. I have no problem at all with other people marking it down for that shortcoming. For many people here at ANN the very premise would preclude it from being a masterpiece. Others will, and have, marked it down for its artwork. People's criteria for masterpiece are different. I have no problem with that. I also believe, and I have argued the same in the various "Best" tournaments, that cream will float to the top. I am comfortable with Clannad After Story sitting at the top of the Bayesian rankings because it shows that it has qualities that many people believe put it in the masterpiece category even if I don't. (Although I suspect people have voted for it using multiple usernames.) And, yes, I've been waiting for the opportunity, dtm4, of throwing your "my anime" words back at you. I also expected you to remove them once I did. 
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Aylinn
 Posts: 1684 |
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I don't change my ratings if a long period of time has passed since I saw a show, but sometimes I have this feeling that I should have rated some series differently. In such cases, if I feel like doing it, I re-watch it to check out if I were right and the series deserved a better or lower rating.
dtm has a point. After watching anime for years don't you feel like you are able to make a pretty good guess as to what you may like and also tell whether an anime has a potential to be a good show? It should make it easier for you to find more series which suit your taste. I have a lot of masterpieces, probably due to the fact that I understand it differently than most people who seem to consider it as the most exquisite and unforgettable work of art, while for me it is a work of art made by a person that has very little to learn and a good deal of knowledge to pass down to others or I may give something this rating if it has some small flaws, but it's right down my alley. |
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Errinundra
Moderator
Posts: 6535 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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Sorry, Aylinn, but I'm not getting your point. |
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Aylinn
Posts: 1684 |
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I mean that, for example, I have been a fan for many years. I know that I like certain kind of series and dislike others. I tried to watch some Gundam shows in the past, but only Seed appealed to me, so I omitted this type of shows in the future, which gave me more time to explore series that I have higher probability of liking. In other words, the more I watched and experienced I was, the better selection of shows I could make and as a result the number of shows I rated as excellent and masterpiece has increased.
And there is this also that I found which directors I like, which studios I like etc. For example: Kenji Nakamura - I saw Bakeneko arc from Ayakashi - Samurai Horror Tales, which is nothing short of fantastic, and then I saw Mononoke, which is also great, so when he made another story - Kūchū Buranko, I was interested in watching it, as I knew from my past experience that he is a director who can produce something outstanding. To be sure, it doesn't work all the time - C – Control – The Money and Soul of Possibility is a let down - but nevertheless using past experience is a good way of discerning if a show has a chance to appeal to me or not. |
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marie-antoinette
Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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If this was true for anyone then there would be no anime ranked masterpieces at all because I don't think an anime exists out there that is perfect. And now I must go look over my ratings because this thread has made me want to revisit them (I also realized I had not actually rated Bunny Drop). |
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